We are told to follow Christ but how?

Soyeong · Oct 3, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
Colossians 2
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

In Colossians 2:16-23, Paul described the people who were judging them as teaching human traditions and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so they were being judged by pagans. This means that the Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God.

Jesus is YHWH said:
Galatians 3
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Are you a Jew ?

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Torah, so the Torah is of faith. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law that was of works with a law that was of faith, so works of the Torah are of works, while he said in 3:31 that our faith upholds the Torah, so again the Torah is of faith and Paul contrasted the Torah with works of the law. In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Torah, while no one is justified before God by works of the Torah because they are not of faith in God.

Jesus is YHWH said:
I'm a gentile not under the law- Jesus set me free from the law and the commandments as per Romans , Hebrews and Galatians.

BTW- its rather hypocritical to talk about man and other churches started by man all the while the SDA made by man claims exclusivity. You are trapped within the SDA with its rules and regulations for membership. The church has replaced the freedom in Christ in place of rules and regulations, restrictions regarding worship.

hope this helps !!!

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what the Torah was given to instruct how to do. Furthermore, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from being under the law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness, so believing in what Christ accomplished on the cross looks like becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20), while saying that Jesus set us free from the law undermines what he went to the cross the accomplish. The freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from sin, not the freedom to sin. Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, so saying that he set us free from the law also undermines what he sent his ministry doing. Following what Jesus taught by word and by example is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too.

Jesus is YHWH said:
Then by all means keep practicing the law thats your choice not mine. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed ! Gal 5:1

The reason why God set the Israelites free from bondage in Egypt was not in order to put them under slavery to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God set us free (Galatians 5:1), and God's law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:142), while it is sin in transgression of God's law that puts us into bondage (John 8:31-36).

Romans 8
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The righteous requirement of the law is obedience, so Jesus set us free from sin, which is disobedience to the law so that we might be free to full its righteous requirement, which is obedience to it. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 3, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
I'm a gentile not under the law- Jesus set me free from the law and the commandments as per Romans , Hebrews and Galatians.

BTW- its rather hypocritical to talk about man and other churches started by man all the while the SDA made by man claims exclusivity. You are trapped within the SDA with its rules and regulations for membership. The church has replaced the freedom in Christ in place of rules and regulations, restrictions regarding worship.

hope this helps !!!

I don't recall ever saying or believing the SDA claims exclusivity. The SDA did not invent the Sabbath, we did not invent the 10 commandments. God did. We follow Gods laws and what's written in the Bible. Shouldn't we all?

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 3, 2020

imge said:
I don't recall ever saying or believing the SDA claims exclusivity. The SDA did not invent the Sabbath, we did not invent the 10 commandments. God did. We follow Gods laws and what's written in the Bible. Shouldn't we all?

only if you are under the law

Jesus set believers free from the law as scripture declares

SabbathBlessings · Oct 3, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
only if you are under the law

Jesus set believers free from the law as scripture declares

If so what are these verses doing in the Bible? Why are they in the last chapter of the Bible if "done away with". Written right before the second coming.

Revelations 12:17 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Why would the devil be enraged with keeping the commandments of God if God said they weren't important or not under the law?

Revelations
13:6 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven

What was in the tabernacle ? The 10 commandments (I can show you the references if needed)

Revelations 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14,15 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Maybe you should consider praying on this subject? Ask God for His guidance. At least watch the video I posted, maybe it will give you a different perspective.

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 3, 2020

imge said:
If so what are these verses doing in the Bible? Why are they in the last chapter of the Bible if "done away with". Written right before the second coming.

Revelations 12:17 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Why would the devil be enraged with keeping the commandments of God if God said they weren't important or not under the law?

Revelations
13:6 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven

What was in the tabernacle ? The 10 commandments (I can show you the references if needed)

Revelations 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14,15 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Maybe you should consider praying on this subject? Ask God for His guidance. At least watch the video I posted, maybe it will give you a different perspective.

Saved by His grace and grace keeps one saved- not of works let no man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-10

works are evidence of ones salvation not a means of salvation. Ye will know them by their fruits. A good tree produces good fruit, a bad tree bad fruit.

your theology does not harmonize with scripture but contradicts scripture.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 3, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
Saved by His grace and grace keeps one saved- not of works let no man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8-10

works are evidence of ones salvation not a means of salvation. Ye will know them by their fruits. A good tree produces good fruit, a bad tree bad fruit.

your theology does not harmonize with scripture but contradicts scripture.

Not at all, we are saved by grace but Jesus says Mark 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 3, 2020

imge said:
Not at all, we are saved by grace but Jesus says Mark 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

Agreed !

Jesus is YHWH · Oct 3, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
Agreed !

sometimes online it takes time and many exchanges to see where a person is coming from unlike knowing someone in person. that is one of the problems of a medium like this unfortunately.

and good works are a by product or a result(evidence) of ones salvation not a means to salvation which is by grace as we agree in Ephesians 2:8-10 and other places.

Amen !

SabbathBlessings · Oct 3, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
sometimes online it takes time and many exchanges to see where a person is coming from unlike knowing someone in person. that is one of the problems of a medium like this unfortunately.

Amen !

I agree! I appreciate our discussion. We may not agree on some important areas of the Bible, but its good to be able to have a discussion on it without getting too personal or upset.

God bless! I am sure I'll see you around.

Der Alte · Oct 3, 2020

imge said:
If so what are these verses doing in the Bible? Why are they in the last chapter of the Bible if "done away with". Written right before the second coming.
Revelations 12:17 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ...

Romans 2:14
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Romans 3:19
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:28
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:15
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Romans 8:3
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 13:10
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1 Corinthians 9:20
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1 Corinthians 9:20-21
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:2
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:11
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 5:3
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Galatians 5:4
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:18
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 3, 2020

Der Alte said:
Romans 2:14
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Romans 3:19
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:28
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 6:14
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:15
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Romans 8:3
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 13:10
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
1 Corinthians 9:20
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1 Corinthians 9:20-21
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 3:2
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:11
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 5:3
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Galatians 5:4
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:18
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

You need to look at the context to these versus and have an understanding of ceremonial laws and Gods laws. If interested in learning about it I posted a video earlier of it but will post it again. It should really make for greater understanding and definitely worth watching.

Der Alte · Oct 3, 2020

imge said:
You need to look at the context to these versus and have an understanding of ceremonial laws and Gods laws. If interested in learning about it I posted a video earlier of it but will post it again. It should really make for greater understanding and definitely worth watching.

Sorry I don't do videos. I can read the scriptures in more than one language and I don't need for anyone to explain it to me. I am well aware of the difference between ceremonial, judicial and moral laws.

JAL · Oct 3, 2020

SDA-ism is legalism. It's a man-spawned preoccupation with the letter of the law.
And thanks for quoting the commandment:

imge said:
Exodus 20 8-11 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

You know what legalism means, right? It means no vacations! Any time you take a day off work (i.e. during the six days), you've already violated the letter of the law!

Sorry, legalism just doesn't make sense. If you want to know God's will for your life, take a look at my initial post on this thread.

TexFire316 · Oct 3, 2020

ChristServant said:
If all that Christ did in His life was to follow GOD's commandments to the full and fulfil all things as many suggest, how do I do the things He said to do without becoming legalistic and why are somethings okay to follow what He says and not others, who decides?

Great question!!!
The church leaders absolutely hates it when the sheeple ask questions such as this one.
The Master taught us how to pray (Our Father, who art in heaven...), and as such, He was also teaching us how to worship the Father.
The Master obeyed the Torah (God's commandments), and commanded us to do what He did. Yep, the modern day church would also have called the Master legalistic. But, the thing is, Jesus wasn't obediant to the Father to 'earn His salvation' (He is part of the salvation plan), He was the Lamb.

So when He commands us to do likewise, its not to earn or keep salvation (price is paid), but because we love the Father, and want to make Him happy. Because we want to. And we can't get away from it, the Father wrote His law onto our being at the moment we chose to follow Him (salvation). And when we rebel, well, it tends to bite us.

Talk it over with the Father, and wait for His response. Be well.

RCrihfield · Oct 3, 2020

BNR32FAN said:
Actually Jesus didn’t obey God’s commandment concerning the adulterous woman. According to God’s commandment in Leviticus she was supposed to be put to death.

Wasn't that the argument of the Pharisees who brought her to Him? You are not in good company. Go back and read 'the rest of the story' as Paul Harvey would say.

This is the point of grace vs law. It is leagalism to try to accuse Jesus on this matter. He said that he who was without sin should cast the first stone. What was the penalty for sin? Stoning. Rom 3:23 all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. They were all guilty. The law requires death but Jesus showed them grace and mercy.

I don't follow the old law....none of it. I follow Christ.

GraceBro · Oct 4, 2020

ChristServant said:
If all that Christ did in His life was to follow GOD's commandments to the full and fufulfillll things as many suggest, how do I do the things He said to do without becoming legalistic and why are somethings okay to follow what He says and not others, who decides?

You can't do the things that Jesus said. And that is the point. He said those things so you would ask the question you are asking. Jesus said those things so that in our pursuit of trying to obey them we would realize that we can only enter the kingdom of God by His grace and mercy, not our obedience to commands.

Marc Perry · Oct 4, 2020

ChristServant said:
If all that Christ did in His life was to follow GOD's commandments to the full and fulfil all things as many suggest, how do I do the things He said to do without becoming legalistic and why are somethings okay to follow what He says and not others, who decides?

The idea isn't about following laws. That was the brilliancy of Jesus. It is about loving thy neighbor, and following your conscience based on where that feeling leads you. God has placed knowledge of right and wrong into our hearts. It is about following that feeling, and most people are able to know the difference between right and wrong. We do it because it helps our neighbor, but it also avoids the crush of guilt, which leads us to a more meaningful life. Note that I said meaningful, not happy. We can have moments of happiness, of course, but Jesus said following him is not easy and will challenge every aspect of our spirit.

bottoWordx · Oct 4, 2020

You must realize your nature.

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’

and draw a line in your heart

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 4, 2020

JAL said:
SDA-ism is legalism. It's a man-spawned preoccupation with the letter of the law.
And thanks for quoting the commandment:

You know what legalism means, right? It means no vacations! Any time you take a day off work (i.e. during the six days), you've already violated the letter of the law!

Sorry, legalism just doesn't make sense. If you want to know God's will for your life, take a look at my initial post on this thread.

The law you quoted is from the Bible, not an SDA doctrine. If that's a commandment you don't like, I suggest you pray and take it up with God. If you want to know Gods will read the Bible. He knows what's best for us. People have this preconceived notion keeping Gods law means not enjoying life, but its quite the opposite. I know from personal experience.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

John 14:21 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

Legalism is everywhere. Each State, Country, Nation has a set of laws. Some you like, some you don't. God created each of us. He knows what is best for us. His laws are the perfect way to live.

Revelations 22:14
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

JAL · Oct 4, 2020

Your response is completely evasive and misrepresentational - doesn't meet the force of the objections at all. Which is fine. You're only confirming my conclusions.

imge said:
The law you quoted is from the Bible, not an SDA doctrine. If that's a commandment you don't like, I suggest you take it up with God.

My beef is not with God's commandments. Each of His laws has one meaning ultimately - love. Again, that's the spirit of the law. When Sabbatarians elevate the letter of the law above the spirit of the law, they legalistically undermine love and thereby violate the law.

If you want to know Gods will read the Bible.

Dead wrong. The exegetical method relies on ignorant human scholarship. Direct Revelation must tell us God's will - we must hear the Voice (Jn 10:27) - and this can happen with, or without, the existence of the Bible. Consider Abraham.

Legalism is everywhere. Each State, Country, Nation has a set of laws.

The existence of laws isn't legalism. Legalism is a misinterpretation/misapplication of law - it's a violation of the law - born from an inordinate preoccupation with the letter of the law.

Again, here's what the letter of the law says: "Six days you shall labor and do all your work" - but I never met an SDA intent upon laboring six days a week! They seem to revel in the easy part of the letter (taking one day off) while shrugging off the hard part. How convenient. And they don't even seem to preach the hard part! Jesus noticed such inconsistencies among the Pharisees - they "obeyed" the law in ways convenient for them. And He called them hypocrites for it.

What about you. Do you ever take vacations? Do you always labor six days a week?

We are told to follow Christ but how?

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