Should SDA's attend synagogue on Shabbat if early Jewish believers did?

chad kincham said:

Moses said no one had the law the law God gave to Israel, until God gave it to him on Mount Sinai:

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

Deu 5:3 The LORD made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with US evenus, who areall of us here alive THIS day.

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Easy one. There was no nation of ISRAEL before Mt Sinai and the covenant was not like the covenant of the fathers. There was no book of the law and feast days, Sanctuary service, Levitical Priesthood, civil and health laws or passover (happened in Egypt) etc. This covenant was given to ISRAEL as a people in fulfillment of Gods promise and covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Yet we know before the written Word of God was the Spoken Word of God and it is God that say in Genesis 26:5 [5], Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. The Hebrew Word for law here is Torah. So nope Moses did not say no one had the law. Moses said that no one had the law God gave to Israel, until God gave it to him on Mount Sinai. Moses did not say Gods people before Mt Sinai did not know the 10 commandments or the Sabbath. The Sabbath was already being kept in Exodus 16 and was made for Adam and Eve through the spoken Word in Genesis 2:1-3 which we were also told Abraham was keeping Gods' laws in Genesis 26:5.

chad kincham said:

And God says why and to who, He first gave the command to keep the 7th day:

Deu 5:15 And REMEMBER that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and thatthe LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded THEE to keep the sabbath day.

The sabbath day command was given only to Israel as a covenant sign and memorial of their being set free from slavery in Egypt.

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of ISRAEL, saying, Verily my sabbaths YE shall keep: for itisa SIGN between ME and YOU throughout YOUR generations; that yemay know that I amthe LORD that doth sanctify YOU.

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God does not say why and to whom he "first" gave the Sabbath in reference to Deuteronomy 5:15 whatsoever. Where is that in the scripture? Where does it say that this is when God first gave the Sabbath, when the Sabbath was already being kept by ISRAEL in Exodus 16 before Mt Sinai and when JESUS says that he made the Sabbath for mankind in Mark 2:27 at creation in Genesis 2:1-3? God's Word says nowhere that the Sabbath was given only to ISRAEL. That is what your trying to inject into the scriptures which the scriptures do not say or do not teach. There was no, Moses, no Jew and no Israel when God made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3) and no law because mankind did not sin and was in perfect harmony with God. The interpretation therefore of the scriptures your presenting is not biblical.

chad kincham said:

God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.

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I believe this is where your mistake is. Your view of the covenant only tells half the story. Perhaps you did not know that the old covenant to ISRAEL was made up of both the Decalogue of the tables of stone of the 10 commandments written by God and the Mosaic book of the law as shown already in Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 29:21; Deuteronomy 31:26; 2 Kings 23:22 2 Kings 23:3; 2Ki 23:21; 2 Chronicles 34:30; 2 Chronicles 34:31.

chad kincham said:

God allowed the Jewish temple to be destroyed because the mosaic covenant was no more, and ended the sabbaths:

Lam 2:5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.

Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and SABBATHS to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Lam 2:7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the LORD, as in the day of a solemn feast.

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It is the shadow annual sabbaths that have ended that are connected to the feast days and the Mosiac shadow laws for remission of sins, not God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant promise to love *Hebrews 8:10-12 (scripture support here and here linked). No where does it say here that God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments are abolished. According to God's Word in the new covenant God's law (10 commandments) have the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. According to the scriptures in the new covenant those who knowingly break anyone of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. According to the scriptures, if we continue in known unrepentant sin after we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it there is no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come *Hebrews 10:26-31.

chad kincham said:

And in Galatians ch 4, Paul contrasts the two covenants, calling the one from Mount SINAI bondage.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman.
Gal 4:23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise.
Gal 4:24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount SINAI, bearing children for SLAVERY; she is Hagar.
Gal 4:25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the PRESENT JERUSALEM for she is in slavery with her children.
Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem ABOVE is free, and SHE is our mother.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.”
Gal 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.
Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”
Gal 4:31 So, brothers, we are not children of the SLAVE but of the free woman.

The old covenant from Mount Sinai represents bondage, but we are under the new covenant, wrote Paul. The Old Covenant ten has been replaced by the two love commands, neither of which include the requirement to keep the 7th day, or any day.

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Hmm.. nope. As no one is "Under the law" unless they stand before God guilty of breaking the law according to Romans 3:19-20. The purpose of God’s ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) in both the OLD and NEW COVENANTS are to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. They do not make anyone perfect. God’s eternal law shows us that we are all sinners in need of a Savior and lead us to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. If we have REPENTED from our sins and CONFESSED them to JESUS he is faithful and just to forgive us from our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness * Acts 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15; 6:2; Luke 13:3-5; Proverbs 28:9-13; Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:9-13 and are no longer “UNDER THE LAW” condemned before God of sin *Romans 8:1-4. However, if we are continuing in known unrepentant sin then we are still “UNDER THE LAW” condemned before God of sin *Romans 3:19-20 and need to seek him in repentance, confession for your sins and faith in his WORD *John 3:15-21

chad kincham said:

The two love commands are different from the old ten, because they are kept out of love, not out of fear of the punishment of death by stoning for breaking them. When the New Testament mentions keeping the commandments, it’s NOT the Decalogue that is meant, but the TWO love commands: The scripture makes it clear, that love fulfills the law of God.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there beany other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love isthe FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

And this:

Mat 22:36 Master, which isthe great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Mt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. Mat 22:39 And the second islike unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Mat 22:40 On these TWO commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.

One big difference between the old ten, and the two love commands, is that the two love commands far exceed how well you treat your neighbor. If you love him as yourself, you’ll do many more acts of kindness for him than the Decalogue requires.

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According to the scriptures of God's Word you cannot separate God's law (10 commandments) from love because love is expressed through obedience to God's law. For example as we have faith that works by a new heart that is born again to love in the Spirit if we love our neighbor we will not steal from them, lie to them, kill them, commit adultery with through spouse etc, just the same as if we love God we will not follow or make other Gods and bow down to them, we will not use the Lords name in vain or break His Sabbath. That is why JESUS says in the very scriptures you quote in Matthew 22:36-40 On these two great commandments of Love to God and love to man "HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets." Jesus is quoting from the old testament scriptures BTW in Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Paul is expressing the same thing as JESUS when he says in Romans...
Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW or ROMANS 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.
James also expresses the same thoughts in James 2:8-12. As shown in the scriptures here and the ones you quoted Love does not abolish God's law (10 commandments) it establishes them through faith. Love is the fulfilling of the law *Romans 13:10 and as John also says in 1 JOHN 5:3-4 [3], For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.[4], For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.

I believe everything else in your post here is repetition and has been answered through the scriptures elsewhere.

Hope this is helpful and given you another view for consideration and may God bless you as you prayerfully seek him through his Word.

LoveGodsWord said:

I see so sad to see you leave hluke, what was your strong biblical background that helped you to leave. Can you share it with me and lets discuss the scriptures? Also, for your clarification no one I know in the SDA Church teaches as you say "Sunday worshippers will receive the mark of the beast, and Sabbath keepers will receive a special reward in heaven". I think perhaps you may have a misunderstanding as to what we believe here. No one receives the "mark of the beast" according to the scriptures until "Sunday worship" is forced under legislation and law (more info here).

Hmm what? Your Pastor told you to keep only the dietary laws and the Sabbath? I have never come across that one before so that is new to me. I do believe in the dietary laws though as these indeed are biblical. You can read about them all through the old and new testament scriptures.

They are not Jewish laws they are biblical laws. Do you think God knows what is good for you and has given us instruction in healthful living?

Goodness dear friend, are you making this up? I have never heard of such nonsense. Perhaps you may have had a misunderstanding? I do not know anyone one in any SDA Church that has ever taught that as you claim, "the Pope changed the laws by forcing early Christians to worship the pagan Sun god"

I see so your looking for evidence outside of the biblical record and you claims that the early Church worshiped on "the Lords day" Can you prove to me from scripture alone that "the Lords day" is Sunday or the first day of the week? What about the other evidence that shows Gods' people all through time have kept God's 4th commandment Sabbath unbroken all through time from the days of JESUS to after the death of JESUS, the Apostles and disciples after their deaths all through time to this very present day?

Actually perhaps you may have a misunderstanding here as well. Love is the fulfillment of God's law it is not breaking it. (see Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; and James 2:8-12)
Unless we are born again to love we cannot see Gods Kingdom *John 3:3-7. Those who are born of God do not practice sin *1 John 3:6-9. Those who practice sin have neither seen him or know him *1 John 2:3-4. Sin is the transgression of God's law.

Pretty just punishment in my view. They miss out on eternal life. That is what the scriptures teach. What type of God does one worship who believes God tortures people in eternal burning hellfire? This is a teaching of the Roman Catholic church and it is not biblical.

Hmm nope. Never heard that before. Are you referring to the investigative judgement of Daniel and Revelation? Happy to provide the scriptures and the calculations if you like. BTW I think you mean JESUS entered the holy of hollies to perform the final atonement for remission of sins and the cleansing of the Heavenly Sanctuary. This is the fulfillment of the shadow feast of the cleansing of the Sanctuary (Yom Kippur) the great day of Atonement.


Goodness that is simple not true. Prove it.

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Hello brother,

There's a lot to dissect here. I say what I was taught. Most of what you rebutted are the very things that where taught by Ellen White in her sub-biblical texts such as 'The great controversy'.

With regards to being baptised into the church, I was told that I needed to confess Ellen White as the final prophet of God, and view her teachings as authorititive in order to join the church.

So again, contrary to what you claim, my experience at this particular SDA church was cultic. I received contradictory messages all the time. On one occassion, I was told that SDA's only need the bible as their source of authority, but they then quote the work of E.G White... this makes little sense.

On another occassion I was told that 'babylon the great has fallen' is a reference to the USA. But when I questioned this, the pastor became defensive.

Perhaps the most undeniable 'prophecies' made by E.G.W is that one day in the near future people will be forced to keep the Sunday sabbath. This is unrealistic.

Even Satan can disguise as an angel of light. And we are instructed to deny any gospel that is different to the one we received, and point out false prophets.

Overall, the experience was emotionally draining and I felt oppressed. I'm so glad that I was able to argue with the pastor on key doctrinal points and work my way out. I'm free now by the grace of God.

I don't want disunity in the body of Christ. And unfortunately churches such as the SDA which point the finger at other believers (catholics, pentecostals, anglicans), and claim to be a 'special remnant church' do nothing more for the Christian faith than divide.

The phrase I kept on fervently telling the pastor was that "religion doesn't matter, only knowing God does". The consistent response by him was that 'it depends'. NO. I'd take my faithful bible, and Jesus Christ over any religion or sub biblical doctrine...

Ok now that those have been answered... Can anyone please tell me where does it say in the scriptures that....(scripture please)

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshiping God according to the scriptures in Matthew 15:3-9 as they are the very Words of JESUS not mine.

Look forward to your thoughts...

hluke said:

Hello brother,

There's a lot to dissect here. I say what I was taught. Most of what you rebutted are the very things that where taught by Ellen White in her sub-biblical texts such as 'The great controversy'.

With regards to being baptised into the church, I was told that I needed to confess Ellen White as the final prophet of God, and view her teachings as authorititive in order to join the church.

So again, contrary to what you claim, my experience at this particular SDA church was cultic. I received contradictory messages all the time. On one occassion, I was told that SDA's only need the bible as their source of authority, but they then quote the work of E.G White... this makes little sense.

On another occassion I was told that 'babylon the great has fallen' is a reference to the USA. But when I questioned this, the pastor became defensive.

Perhaps the most undeniable 'prophecies' made by E.G.W is that one day in the near future people will be forced to keep the Sunday sabbath. This is unrealistic.

Even Satan can disguise as an angel of light. And we are instructed to deny any gospel that is different to the one we received, and point out false prophets.

Overall, the experience was emotionally draining and I felt oppressed. I'm so glad that I was able to argue with the pastor on key doctrinal points and work my way out. I'm free now by the grace of God.

I don't want disunity in the body of Christ. And unfortunately churches such as the SDA which point the finger at other believers (catholics, pentecostals, anglicans), and claim to be a 'special remnant church' do nothing more for the Christian faith than divide.

The phrase I kept on fervently telling the pastor was that "religion doesn't matter, only knowing God does". The consistent response by him was that 'it depends'. NO. I'd take my faithful bible, and Jesus Christ over any religion or sub biblical doctrine...

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Sorry if that was your experience hluke. Pretty much everything you posted was not anything I have ever heard of or experienced anywhere before. I am still of the view though that perhaps the way you were taught things may have led you to misunderstandings. For me my experience and understanding of the scriptures are the exact opposite of what you are sharing though, God taught me at an early stage to seek him for his truth through his Word. Thanks for sharing your view sad as it is. Although your experience is not mine and I wonder if you have a misunderstanding of what was being shared with you.

My prayer is that God will bless you as you seek him through his Word.

LoveGodsWord said:

Ok now that those have been answered... Can anyone please tell me where does it say in the scriptures that....(scripture please)

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshiping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...

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I can only answer the first question...seventh day sabbath has changed...Hebrews 4...please ask the Holy Spirit to teach you No need to follow teachings from others Or pastors or so called prophets go straight to the source ( God)...

pasifika said:

I can only answer the first question...seventh day sabbath has changed...Hebrews 4...please ask the Holy Spirit to teach you No need to follow teachings from others Or pastors or so called prophets go straight to the source ( God)...

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So your claim is your only able to answer 1/27 questions pasifika and your answer is that the Seventh day Sabbath has changed according to Hebrews 4? Yet the context of Hebrews 4:1-5 is the "seventh day sabbath" which is defined as "God's rest" and in Hebrews 4:9 says "IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH" So as you can see here it is talking about the seventh day Sabbath remaining. There is nothing about the Sabbath changing. So your score is really 0/27 is it not? Keep trying.

God bless.

LoveGodsWord said:

So your your claim is your only able to answer 1/27 questions pasifika and your answer is that the Seventh day Sabbath has changed according to Hebrews 4? Yet the context of Hebrews 4:1-5 is the "seventh day sabbath" which is defined as "God's rest" and in Hebrews 4:9 says "IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH" So as you can see here it is talking about the seventh day Sabbath remaining. Nothing about the Sabbath changing. Please ask God to teach you. So your score is really 0/27 is it not? Keep trying.

God bless.

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Then why did God said that “they shall “NEVER” ENTER MY REST” in Hebrews 4:5?
By the way Hebrews 4:9 is Not about the 7th day BUT “Today” the new day of Rest...

pasifika said:

Then why did God said that “they shall “NEVER” ENTER MY REST” in Hebrews 4:5?

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Prayerfully read Hebrews 4:1-5 and Hebrews 3. It was because of their unbelief in God's Word and not following it.

Edit. Ok adding some more as your added more to your post...

Of course HEBREWS 4:9 is about the Sabbath. The CONTEXT of HEBREWS 4:9 is HEBREWS 4:1-5 which is directly talking about the Sabbath with HEBREWS 4:9 saying THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

Yep keep seems like the Sabbath still remains for the people of God alrighty.

Here is the whole lot together....

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
5, And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:1-5

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD [the GOSPEL] enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD do not enter into that rest.

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

[10], For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

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INTERLINEAR HEBREWS 4:9

αρα απολειπεται σαββατισμος τω λαω του θεου
So then there remains a Sabbath rest to the people - of God

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Parallel translations of HEBREWS 4:9

New International Version
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

English Standard Version
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

Berean Study Bible
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Berean Literal Bible
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

New American Standard Bible
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people.

International Standard Version
There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God to keep,

NET Bible
Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.

New Heart English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

New American Standard 1977
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

American Standard Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Darby Bible Translation
There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

English Revised Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Weymouth New Testament
It follows that there still remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.

World English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Young's Literal Translation
there doth remain, then, a Sabbatic rest to the people of God,

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continuing...

[10], For he that is entered into his rest (v9 SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11], Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (Heb 3).

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CONCLUSION: Yep lots of scripture here showing that if you do not enter into God's Gospel rest you cannot enter his SABBATH REST. v 1-4 is the context of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH confirmed in v9-11 Hebrews 3-4 is talking about the Gospel and the keeping of God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD. "There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God. Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief" v9-11. HEBREWS 4 supports the keeping of the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH by believing and following the Word of God.

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God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

Yep God's Sabbath rest is still remaining for the people of God.

There is a debate on YouTube about the Sabbath. I want you to see this debate and vote for yourself who has won this debate. Jim Staly - Chris Rosberg

LoveGodsWord said:

Prayerfully read Hebrews 4:1-5 and Hebrews 3. It was because of their unbelief in God's Word and not following it.

Click to expand...

Did you know that God swore that they shall Never enter His Rest in Hebrews 3:18..
Did you know when God swore about something means He doesn’t change His mind? Hebrews 6:16-18

pasifika said:

Did you know that God swore that they shall Never enter His Rest in Hebrews 3:18..
Did you know when God swore about something means He doesn’t change His mind? Hebrews 6:16-18

Click to expand...

Indeed it is the same today. Those who do not believe and follow God's Word today will not enter into God's Rest they will receive God's judgements according to the scriptures *HEBREWS 10:26-31 if they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it..

LoveGodsWord said:

Prayerfully read Hebrews 4:1-5 and Hebrews 3. It was because of their unbelief in God's Word and not following it.

Edit. Ok adding some more as your added more to your post...

Of course HEBREWS 4:9 is about the Sabbath. The CONTEXT of HEBREWS 4:9 is HEBREWS 4:1-5 which is directly talking about the Sabbath with HEBREWS 4:9 saying THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

Yep keep seems like the Sabbath still remains for the people of God alrighty.

Click to expand...

Hebrews 4:9 never mentioned the “7th day” in it.
But if you read Hebrews 4:8, it says if Joshua had given them rest, God would Not spoke later about “Another day”

the question is; another day of what?
Ans; Another Day of Rest...( 7th day Sabbath has changed)...

LoveGodsWord said:

I think from memory you where pointed to the scriptures many times already. You just choose to ignore them for example...

HEBREWS 4:9 Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

Also in the new covenant scriptures God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word *ROMANS 9:6-8; ROMANS 2:28-29; COLOSSIANS 3:11; ROMANS 10:11-13. There are no more Jewish or Gentile believers of God's Word as we are now all one in Christ *EPHESIANS 2:11-13; GALATIANS 3:28-29;. Gentile believers are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12 of a new heart to love. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

I think also I remembered asking you where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. - Still waiting..... Zzz

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

Click to expand...

None of these verses are commandments for non-Jewish Christians to observe the seventh day sabbath. Not sure what version of scripture you are using for Hebrews 4:9, but it is not talking about the fourth commandment, but about an eternal and future rest, when creation is restored from its fallen state. The fourth commandment (as well as the rest of the law) is only a shadow that points to the substance.

There is nothing in any of the following versions of Hebrews 4:9 that says anything about a requirement for "keeping the sabbath" so did you paraphrase that verse on your own to add in your own incorrect interpretation?

Hebrews 4:9 - Bible Gateway

Note that new covenant ISRAEL is also no longer required to observe old covenant law for all believers, Jews and Gentiles alike, are under the new covenant of grace and the old covenant has been fully fulfilled through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's what being grafted into Israel is all about.

LoveGodsWord said:

Indeed it is the same today. Those who do not believe and follow God's Word today will not enter into God's Rest they will receive God's judgements according to the scriptures *HEBREWS 10:26-31 if they have been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and reject it..

Click to expand...

So do you believe Gods Word Only on the 7th day or Everyday?

HARK! said:

Paul was a non-Jewish Christian. He observed the Sabbath; and he said to follow him as he followed Messiah.

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Acts 22:3...Then Paul said I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors...

HARK! said:

Paul was a non-Jewish Christian. He observed the Sabbath; and he said to follow him as he followed Messiah.

Click to expand...

Paul was a circumcised Jew of the tribe of Benjamin, and also a Pharisee and a zealot. Once he became a Christ follower, he was adamant that Gentiles did not have to become as Jews and observe Jewish laws and customs in order to follow Christ, and the Jerusalem council ultimately agreed with him.

bekkilyn said:

None of these verses are commandments for non-Jewish Christians to observe the seventh day sabbath. Not sure what version of scripture you are using for Hebrews 4:9, but it is not talking about the fourth commandment, but about an eternal and future rest, when creation is restored from its fallen state. The fourth commandment (as well as the rest of the law) is only a shadow that points to the substance.

Click to expand...

Hmmm... Nope! Not according to the scriptures. There is no such thing as non Jewish Christians as the scriptures teach in the new covenant as posted earlier God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word *ROMANS 9:6-8; ROMANS 2:28-29; COLOSSIANS 3:11; ROMANS 10:11-13. There are no more Jewish or Gentile believers of God's Word as we are now all one in Christ *EPHESIANS 2:11-13; GALATIANS 3:28-29;. Gentile believers are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12 of a new heart to love. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. You did not read the scriptures shared with you did you. There is not one set of laws for Gentile believers and another set of laws for Jewish believers. A house divided cannot stand. All are one in Christ.

bekkilyn said:

There is nothing in any of the following versions of Hebrews 4:9 that says anything about a requirement for "keeping the sabbath" so did you paraphrase that verse on your own to add in your own incorrect interpretation?

Click to expand...

Well that is not true, keep reading...

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

bekkilyn said:

Note that new covenant ISRAEL is also no longer required to observe old covenant law for all believers, Jews and Gentiles alike, are under the new covenant of grace and the old covenant has been fully fulfilled through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's what being grafted into Israel is all about

Click to expand...

True we are no longer required to do animal sacrifices and sin offerings, shadow sabbaths in the feast days, Sanctuary and Levitical laws in ordinances are all fulfilled in Christ and pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant. However in the new covenant Gods' 10 commandments have the same role they always have according to the new covenant and that is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to these same scriptures in the new covenant if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. According to these same scriptures if we continue in known unrepentant sin once God gives us a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come *Hebrews 10:26-31. (need more scripture? Here and Here linked).

You still have not answered my question to you. Where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday or the first day of the week as a Holy day? - Your silence here is telling.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

pasifika said:

Hebrews 4:9 never mentioned the “7th day” in it.
But if you read Hebrews 4:8, it says if Joshua had given them rest, God would Not spoke later about “Another day”

the question is; another day of what?
Ans; Another Day of Rest...( 7th day Sabbath has changed)...

Click to expand...

Sure Hebrews 4:9 mentions the Sabbath. Here let me highlight it for you..

Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

Not sure why you cannot see it as it is there for all to see and the context of Hebrews 4:1-5 also shows it is talking about the "seventh day" as being Gods rest referring to Genesis 2:1-3.

The "ANOTHER DAY" v8 is in reference to the coming of MESSIAH JESUS and the preaching of the Gospel again (see Hebrews 4:1-5 God's people rejected the Gospel). God's people who did not enter GOD'S REST (SEVENTH DAY SABBATH) in the wilderness did not enter in because they did not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. Those who entered into GOD'S REST entered in "PRESENT TENSE" because they BELIEVED God's WORD; HEBREWS 4:3 [3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.