The Bible teaches only past sins are forgiven us (not future sins).

GDL

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Even some Eternal Security Proponents will argue that we have to live holy or you were never born again to begin with.

Agree. This is the Faith concept #1. Eternal Security, but not osas, which would be #3.

But they will also say that if one commits sin and they died without getting a chance to confess of it, they believe they are still saved. They believe that future sin is paid for. They believe one must live holy. But there is a subtle difference. One can still sin and still be saved in some small way (Which opens the door to leading others to think wrongfully about sin and salvation - whether they want that to happen or not).

So, you seem to be threading a fine line of reasoning here of someone still in the Faith #1 category, but getting caught in an unconfessed sin situation at death. What do you think happens in such a situation & based upon what Scripture?

Based upon your last, parenthetical sentence, it seems the situation could open the door to #3 thinking.

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.

BTW, what concept of faith do you see as correct or would you suggest a 4th?
 
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Blade

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Op you make a statement yet still 10 pages later have not given one verse in Gods word about only past sins are forgiven. There is no Bible verse stating that only our past sins are forgiven.

Your the one that uses the word "past". I can quote the verses you posted.. oh and that. How is taking some out of context.. how does that work? Always read above and below. Or we can make Gods word say anything :)

Eph 1:7 "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace". Should we look at the Greek for the word "have"?

Col 2:13-14 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;" the word "all" "All, the whole, every kind of. Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole." All means all and thats all all means.

Heb 10:11 "And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."

Hmm so by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. Perfected forever.

I was not going to post anything because of the "talk" about others that are not here and deals with their past. I know any sin I do is against God and only God do I do this evil in your sight. I know Christ told me to forgive my brother 7*70 and some are remembering others pasts?

Hmm 7*70.. makes you wonder of GOD does this. He told us to. The sweet sweet Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin. That sin is they do not believe in Jesus Christ. That is the only sin He did not die for.

So when you were born again born from above what was that? Knowing this is a key. Because that new man can not sin. This flesh always sins so its no longer I that sin but sin that is in me.

Wanted to add.. The only time I had this thought was when I was first found/saved. And never once got it from the word. I've heard it from MAN never God/Christ/holy Spirit. In every talk how odd He told me how righteous I am because I believe in Christ. Kepts telling me how He sees me now and forever. I am at peace
 
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Agree. This is the Faith concept #1. Eternal Security, but not osas, which would be #3.

I am not sure what the numbers refer to here. Please classify them in categories for me.
Also, Eternal Security and OSAS are the same thing. The terms are interchangeable, and I have discussed the issue a very long time with those who believe in these dreaded beliefs that lead men to justify sin in some way.

You said:
So, you seem to be threading a fine line of reasoning here of someone still in the Faith #1 category, but getting caught in an unconfessed sin situation at death. What do you think happens in such a situation & based upon what Scripture?

Based upon your last, parenthetical sentence, it seems the situation could open the door to #3 thinking.

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.

BTW, what concept of faith do you see as correct or would you suggest a 4th?

I believe that if a believer generally lived a holy life, but if they later decided to justify sin by looking at women in lust for a few weeks, and they looked at a woman in lust in public and then they got hit by a bus and they died, they would not be saved because they did not get a chance to confess of that sin while they were alive. They did not remain living a holy life when they died, but they died in justifying their sin. This may seem unfair to some, but death is not accident, but death is something God chooses for a person. Why would God potentially do something like this? Well, because God is aware of their heart, and what they would potentially do later. If a person later turns out to justify sin, and God knows they will not change, then it is in God's right to destroy them because they later chose to be wicked. In fact, if I teach that a believer can die in their sins and not confess of them, then I am going against Scripture. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
 
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Op you make a statement yet still 10 pages later have not given one verse in Gods word about only past sins are forgiven. There is no Bible verse stating that only our past sins are forgiven.

I disagree. You have not explained what the verses I provided mean in context.

You said:
Your the one that uses the word "past". I can quote the verses you posted.. oh and that. How is taking some out of context.. how does that work? Always read above and below.

Please do not mock me, dear sir. I have known for a long time what “the context” means. I believe that your belief is not supported by the context.

You said:
Eph 1:7 "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace". Should we look at the Greek for the word "have"?

When you read Ephesians 1:7, you also have to read Ephesians 5.

For Ephesians 5:3-6 KJB says,
3 “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.”

Paul does not appear to say that one can sin and still be saved here. So your imagining things that are not there and ignoring key passages like the one above.

You said:
Col 2:13-14 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;" the word "all" "All, the whole, every kind of. Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole." All means all and thats all all means.

The word “all” is in reference to past sins and not future sins because of Colossians 3.

For Colossians 3:5-6 KJB says,
5 “Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:”

You said:
Heb 10:11 "And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."

The Sanctification spoken here in Hebrews 10:11 is in reference to a believer who has lived out a holy life. However, while there is a sanctification involving one being saved by God's grace, Hebrews 10:11 is not referring to the sanctification that happens when a person is first saved by God's grace and the regeneration of the Holy Ghost in this particular instance.

Hebrews 12:14 essentially says that without holiness no man shall see the Lord. Hebrews 10:26 says if we willfully sin, there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Hebrews 5:9 basically says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. So you are ignoring Scripture.

You said:
I was not going to post anything because of the "talk" about others that are not here and deals with their past. I know any sin I do is against God and only God do I do this evil in your sight. I know Christ told me to forgive my brother 7*70 and some are remembering others pasts?

We are told to forgive others and God does not say He just automatically forgives us if we do nothing but believe on Jesus alone as the Savior. No verse even suggests that. 1 John 1:9 makes it clear that we have to confess of our sins to be forgiven of our sin. 1 John 1:7 basically says IF we walk in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. But the condition is walking in the light. Walking in the light is loving your brother according to the use of indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to love your brother in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you. It's a condition. If you fail to meet that condition, then no cleansing blood of Jesus will be there to save.

You said:
So when you were born again born from above what was that? Knowing this is a key. Because that new man can not sin. This flesh always sins so its no longer I that sin but sin that is in me.

You are misquoting Paul. Paul was not speaking as a part of his Christian life in Romans 7:14-24, but he was relating his experience of trying to justify himself by following the Law of Moses without God's grace.

You said:
Wanted to add.. The only time I had this thought was when I was first found/saved. And never once got it from the word. I've heard it from MAN never God/Christ/holy Spirit. In every talk how odd He told me how righteous I am because I believe in Christ. Kepts telling me how He sees me now and forever. I am at peace

But what you believe is not biblical. Jesus and His followers condemn sin in how it can damn our souls in the afterlife or the Lake of Fire (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, Luke 10:25-28, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 John 3:15, and Revelation 21:8).
 
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GDL

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I am not sure what the numbers refer to here. Please classify them in categories for me.
Also, Eternal Security and OSAS are the same thing. The terms are interchangeable, and I have discussed the issue a very long time with those who believe in these dreaded beliefs that lead men to justify sin in some way.

The numbers refer to what I asked in post #177. Here they are again in the quote below.

To some Eternal Security is the same as OSAS. To others they are not the same. For example, OSAS says I can believe once & even walk away from The Faith, but OSAS (See #3 below). However, Eternal Security can say, As long as I believe, I am secure, or some such variation on this theme (See #1 below).

From here, the consequences will be what He says they are. So, what do you believe re: Biblical Belief – Ongoing Faith-Obedience:

1. Biblical Belief is only ongoing, so temporary belief is not and never was True Biblical Belief and all True Believers will continue this walk and will bring varying levels of fruit to completion and be rewarded accordingly

2. We can come to Biblical Belief, fall away from it, and lose any & all of the benefits we had when we Believed.

3. We can come to Biblical Belief, fall away from it, and retain some of the benefits we had when we first Believed, but be disciplined by God even to death & just not receive some of the crowns & rewards that were available to us

4. Or???

I believe that if a believer generally lived a holy life, but if they later decided to justify sin by looking at women in lust for a few weeks, and they looked at a woman in lust in public and then they got hit by a bus and they died, they would not be saved because they did not get a chance to confess of that sin while they were alive. They did not remain living a holy life when they died, but they died in justifying their sin. This may seem unfair to some, but death is not accident, but death is something God chooses for a person. Why would God potentially do something like this? Well, because God is aware of their heart, and what they would potentially do later. If a person later turns out to justify sin, and God knows they will not change, then it is in God's right to destroy them because they later chose to be wicked. In fact, if I teach that a believer can die in their sins and not confess of them, then I am going against Scripture. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

I understand your position. Thanks.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I believe that if a believer generally lived a holy life, but if they later decided to justify sin by looking at women in lust for a few weeks, and they looked at a woman in lust in public and then they got hit by a bus and they died, they would not be saved because they did not get a chance to confess of that sin while they were alive. They did not remain living a holy life when they died, but they died in justifying their sin.
How come there aren't any verses that teach this idea with clear words??

Why did Jesus say in the clearest and plainest of words that those He gives eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28?

And prior to that, He taught that believers (present indicative active) possess eternal life in John 5:24 and 6:47.

So, it is clear that eternal life is a present possession WHEN a person believes in Christ.

So, John 10:28 applies the MOMENT one believes for salvation.

In fact, if I teach that a believer can die in their sins and not confess of them, then I am going against Scripture. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
One problem: 1 John 1:9 doesn't teach that confession of sins keeps one out of hell, no matter how you want to phrase it.

Those who read Scripture carefully notice that John mentioned "fellowship" 4 times in 3 verses in the first chapter. Confession of sin by believers is the WAY believers restore fellowship with the Lord.
 
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