Man of Lawlessness revealed

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nolidad

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8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

It seems to me Donald Trump is being revealed, whether his Tax returns, or his family members writing tell all books, or even close associates. His childish debate, allegations he paid someone to take the SAT for him, etc.

"He’s done": George Conway predicts Trump will wind up "bankrupt" and a "criminal defendant"

Sorry, but as crude as Trump is or is not--He is not the Antichrist or the lawless one.

The antichrist is the physical son of Satan!
 
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parousia70

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Well, the beast seems to me to be a separate entity by the wording. I've presumed that's the common view. In contrast, as one reads, the 'lawless' one seems to be alike to the AntiChrist or the spirit that is the AntiChrist. While of course at least they'd be connected, they also seem the same entity. Still, you might like that I don't use such presumptions/doctrines/ideas while I read in scripture. I do something radically opposite: I have learned to utterly lay aside all preconceptions, and truly listen, without preconception. But it has been a while since I've read some areas, such as Revelation, so I don't assume I've already heard those fully yet. Also, I know that at least partly we are not yet given things until it's the right time.

I think yours is a fine approach that I wish more Christians held... I do my best to set aside pre conceptions and biases, but I'm not always perfect at it... we all approach scripture with a certain paradigm.... I just think we have to be prepared to let scripture inform that paradigm , and not the other way around. and be prepared to embrace a paradigm shift when scripture illuminates one for us.

I'm curious when you say:
"In contrast, as one reads, the 'lawless' one seems to be alike to the AntiChrist or the spirit that is the AntiChrist. While of course at least they'd be connected, they also seem the same entity."

Can you point me to the scriptures that lead you to make this assumption?

Which of the scriptures that teach of the attributes and identity of antichrist in 1st and 2nd John, do you believe to be synonymous with the scriptures that teach of the attributes and identity of Paul's Man of Sin/lawless one of 2nd Thessalonians?

Can you do a side by side comparison so we might examine the correlation that you are seeing?
 
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Halbhh

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I think yours is a fine approach that I wish more Christians held... I do my best to set aside pre conceptions and biases, but I'm not always perfect at it... we all approach scripture with a certain paradigm.... I just think we have to be prepared to let scripture inform that paradigm , and not the other way around. and be prepared to embrace a paradigm shift when scripture illuminates one for us.

I'm curious when you say:
"In contrast, as one reads, the 'lawless' one seems to be alike to the AntiChrist or the spirit that is the AntiChrist. While of course at least they'd be connected, they also seem the same entity."

Can you point me to the scriptures that lead you to make this assumption?

Which of the scriptures that teach of the attributes and identity of antichrist in 1st and 2nd John, do you believe to be synonymous with the scriptures that teach of the attributes and identity of Paul's Man of Sin/lawless one of 2nd Thessalonians?

Can you do a side by side comparison so we might examine the correlation that you are seeing?
I've usually not sought very much to figure out details of future events, but have listened more for spiritual choices we are to make, as I read. (sort of like reading in the old testament prophets -- often it's about our spiritual/heart relationship with God) So, the following is not detailed. Also, it's more some older thoughts from further back in time, and I'm not recently read in Thess 1 and 2. But notice here the word 'mystery' --

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way.

So, this is intentionally being kept in part mystery (intentionally not revealed to us)-- we are not told too many details, since that would cause other problems (such as us having too easy a time recognizing even without an active (doing actions) faith the situation when it comes, but we are instead to be enduring because of faith and doing as Christ said, not because we could know and then recognize clear signs one day and then say 'whoa, now I'd better turn to God more fully', and just pragmatically choose to repent and do as God says at the last hour). These kinds of details cannot be revealed too fully or clearly.

In 1 John 4:2-3, where confessing to me would mean to confess that Christ rose from the dead, and that we will all face God, and thus that all Christ said is quite real, and none of it can be lain aside or discounted or ignored if one says one is Christian or following Christ. (ergo, there can never be justification then from the full faith view for breaking Matthew 7:12 even sometimes) From the verses we can think (could) that the antichrist is a spirit that can affect people, and then they will be more lawless (unloving, greed filled, idol worshipping, and so on). I don't feel at this time I should try to connect more pieces. I want to read and listen instead.
 
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Timtofly

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Jesus Christ laid aside His glory and humbled Himself as a man, and as a man He came as a servant to die on the cross that we might be saved.

The photographic negative of that picture is, hold it there is a word for that, give me a second, oh yeah, Donald Trump.
So was Obama and Clinton (both).
 
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Halbhh

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Funny... but I see him as being hated by far too many.. openly, outright.. even by much of the media...
Having part of the media critical of a president has been happening == before Trump, Obama was opposed by part of the media.

And Bush was, as was Clinton, as was Bush before him, as was Reagan, as was Carter, as was Ford -- all of these critical examinations from part of the commentators and media I personally remember (it's actual things I saw; this is not just an idea/generalization only, but factually stuff I read and saw).
 
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Jipsah

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8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
It seems to me Donald Trump is being revealed, whether his Tax returns, or his family members writing tell all books, or even close associates. His childish debate, allegations he paid someone to take the SAT for him, etc.
"He’s done": George Conway predicts Trump will wind up "bankrupt" and a "criminal defendant"
Your political opinions are duly noted. They are worth exactly the price charged. Does electioneering actually belong in a Christian discussion forum? If so, prepare to have your boy raked over the coals.
 
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Timtofly

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One pastor described it this way. Suppose everyone that is raptured is full of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit repels evil. Once they are raptured, then that which restrains evil would be taken away.

The point is the Holy Spirit only works if any human so chooses. Millions of Christians "asleep at the wheel" are not letting the Holy Spirit work either. It is still the will of each human to let the Holy Spirit do any restraining.
 
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usexpat97

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Your political opinions are duly noted. They are worth exactly the price charged. Does electioneering actually belong in a Christian discussion forum? If so, prepare to have your boy raked over the coals.

Over in the Prayers forum, you are allowed to "pray for our president". But if you post a prayer for his removal and for him to be replaced by someone wiser, just, and more righteous, it gets removed. So yes.
 
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Jipsah

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Many adulate Trump and think he's good/excellent/great.
He certainly looks good compared to his crypto-communist opponents.

He's very charismatic to them apparently -- as directly visible in their response to him, the great cheering and trust and faithfulness.
It's not that he's charismatic, few are less so. It's simply that he's the one standing defiant against the political powers who despise the beliefs and values that most Christians hold deart. Notice that being a devout Christian like Amy Barrett is now seen by many as making one disqualified for holding high office? Does that not set off alarm bells to you?

Trump is far from perfect, but he's all we have.
 
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Timtofly

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Well, the beast seems to me to be a separate entity by the wording. I've presumed that's the common view. In contrast, as one reads, the 'lawless' one seems to be alike to the AntiChrist or the spirit that is the AntiChrist. While of course at least they'd be connected, they also seem the same entity. Still, you might like that I don't use such presumptions/doctrines/ideas while I read in scripture. I do something radically opposite: I have learned to utterly lay aside all preconceptions, and truly listen, without preconception. But it has been a while since I've read some areas, such as Revelation, so I don't assume I've already heard those fully yet. Also, I know that at least partly we are not yet given things until it's the right time.
The lawless one is Satan who sends out the spirit of antichrist to any human for temporal gain in exchange for their soul in the lake of fire. But the only human in the end is the False Prophet.
 
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Halbhh

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the beliefs and values that most Christs hold dear
The beliefs I hold dear as a Christian include all Christ said. Because I actually believe.

Because I believe.

So, to actually support (help bring more people to) Christianity to me, a leader must actually do Matthew 7:12

If a leader often breaks Matthew 7:12, then they are not supporting Christianity. (no matter if they say they are, no matter if they claim to be, no matter how they advertise their putative belief; We are to look deeper)

Still, Amy Coney Barrett is a great nominee it looks like. It would be pleasant if she's as good as she seems and gets confirmed.

But God is in control ultimately, and we don't ultimately depend on the Supreme Court.

We don't depend on the Supreme Court.

Our mission isn't to control law or government, but to bring the Good News to all people.

This after all is only the temporary world here, and all here will be entirely replaced in time with the New heavens and Earth to come.
 
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usexpat97

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He certainly looks good compared to his crypto-communist opponents.

The Germans said the exact same thing about Hitler. Communist and all



Trump is far from perfect, but he's all we have.

Besides 300 million other Americans, yes. He's the only one.
 
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St. Helens

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