Man of Lawlessness revealed

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ZNP

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2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be
revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already
work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of
the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the
Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy
with the brightness of his coming:9 Even him, whose coming
is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying
wonders,


Since the passage above reveals that the Holy Spirit "who now
letteth will let, UNTIL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY. And then
shall that Wicked be revealed...."

Are you suggesting the Holy Spirit has been "taken out of h
the way"? Since that must happen BEFORE the Man of Sin
is revealed.

.
See Post #30, I don't think he has been revealed yet as the man of lawlessness. Look at many of the posts on this thread saying that he has not yet been revealed.

But, once the rapture takes place it will be a whole different story.
 
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ZNP

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To think he became president to avoid paying taxes just a little longer ...

Not in the prophecy but would make a funny movie.
Jesus Christ laid aside His glory and humbled Himself as a man, and as a man He came as a servant to die on the cross that we might be saved.

The photographic negative of that picture is, hold it there is a word for that, give me a second, oh yeah, Donald Trump.
 
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ZNP

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So Trump is the beast and Conway a prophet ...
'Fake News' certainly indicates we have a false prophet.

Look, obviously if he were really the antichrist we would have other signs, you would have a peace accord with Israel so they could rebuild their temple, you would have natural disasters, you would have the "fire, blood and pillars of smoke" that Joel talks about, you would have the great sign in the heavens crowned with 12 stars, clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, in travail to give birth (which we saw September 23, 2017), and you would have a solar eclipse indicating that God is going to judge the world which we saw directly over Washington D.C. in the Summer of 2017.

It would be during perilous times. You would see lawlessness increasing. You would have to see a lot of other things before you could make this determination.

There would have to be some huge dam about to burst in China indicating that "the water has broke" at the time of the rapture.

You would have to have that worldwide plague that Joel compares to locusts.

There are a lot of things you would have to see. Including the dreams and visions of young people and old men.

 
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ZNP

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Noam Chomsky: Trump is a "sociopathic maniac" capable of provoking "civil war" if he does not win

How about "lawless" as a word to describe him?

"Unhinged," "thuggish," "racist," "undisciplined" and "appalling" are among the many derogatory adjectives that have been used to describe President Donald Trump's performance during his debate with former Vice President Joe Biden on Tuesday, September 29. But such adjectives were being used to describe Trump long before the debate, and one author who has not been shy about stressing that he considers Trump to be the most dangerous president of his lifetime is Noam Chomsky — who, in an interview with Smashing Interviews Magazine published this week, laid out a variety of reasons why he is so troubled by Trump's presidency...

Chomsky continued, "The latest move was to publicly state that if he doesn't like the outcome of the election, he may refuse to accept it. That's never happened in the history of parliamentary democracies. And now, people in high places are taking him seriously. There's a high level independent commission of leading figures in the Republican and Democratic parties and other independent analysts that's been running 'war games,' asking what's likely to happen in the coming election if Trump refuses to leave office."

The 91-year-old author even went so far as to say that he believes Trump is unhinged enough to encourage a civil war in the United States.

Chomsky told Smashing Interviews, "Unless Trump wins the Electoral College, every scenario they run leads to civil war if Trump and the Republicans just refuse to accept it. There are a lot of options they could pursue to try and undermine it. It's like the actions of a dictator in a neo-colony somewhere — a small country that has a military coup every couple of years. There is no historical precedent for this in a functioning democratic society. That's deterioration of democracy at a level we've never seen before and being taken very seriously in the most respectable places . . . We have a sociopathic maniac in the White House."
 
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DamianWarS

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Mr. Trump is really not that important in the scheme of world history. I believe Jesus Christ of Nazareth was speaking to those from His day about events to come during their lifetime. He did say that some of them will not die before the end of the age and that the lawless man will be revealed to all during that time. Be blessed.
I agree in terms of Trump, he's a nobody, but I believe Christ spoke in layers where both immediate and future events were tied together consistent with hebrew chaiastic parallelisms.

For example Christ said he would tear the temple down and build it up again. He meant his own death and resurrection (as explicitly revealed in the text) yet the actual temple was still destroyed and most likely another will be built up again so Christ was right both ways (and I think that was his intention)

The bible is full of these repeating parallels. So I think the immediate context was indeed Rome since the cesars declared themselves God, their sons were sons of God and upon their death the son of God become God. That is the lawless man the text is speaking and it seems pretty clear. However I believe another lawless man (not trump) will come who fits this pattern and will usher in the coming of Christ.
 
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BobRyan

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Noam Chomsky: Trump is a "sociopathic maniac" capable of provoking "civil war" if he does not win

How about "lawless" as a word to describe him?

"Unhinged," "thuggish," "racist," "undisciplined" and "appalling" are among the many derogatory adjectives that have been used to describe President Donald Trump's performance during his debate with former Vice President Joe Biden on Tuesday, September 29. But such adjectives were being used to describe Trump long before the debate, and one author who has not been shy about stressing that he considers Trump to be the most dangerous president of his lifetime is Noam Chomsky — who, in an interview with Smashing Interviews Magazine published this week, laid out a variety of reasons why he is so troubled by Trump's presidency...

Chomsky continued, "The latest move was to publicly state that if he doesn't like the outcome of the election, he may refuse to accept it. That's never happened in the history of parliamentary democracies. And now, people in high places are taking him seriously. There's a high level independent commission of leading figures in the Republican and Democratic parties and other independent analysts that's been running 'war games,' asking what's likely to happen in the coming election if Trump refuses to leave office."

The 91-year-old author even went so far as to say that he believes Trump is unhinged enough to encourage a civil war in the United States.

Chomsky told Smashing Interviews, "Unless Trump wins the Electoral College, every scenario they run leads to civil war if Trump and the Republicans just refuse to accept it. There are a lot of options they could pursue to try and undermine it. It's like the actions of a dictator in a neo-colony somewhere — a small country that has a military coup every couple of years. There is no historical precedent for this in a functioning democratic society. That's deterioration of democracy at a level we've never seen before and being taken very seriously in the most respectable places . . . We have a sociopathic maniac in the White House."

ooohhhh shivers!! in that case we should all vote for Trump so we can prevent "civil war".

So even though loaded with name-calling... that post of yours ends up being an argument to vote for Trump. Which of course is fine by all those 60 million or so who were going to vote for Trump anyway. But I am wondering if this was your intent.

His words are blunt, off-the-cuff and poorly chosen at times - but his actions are distinctively Christian friendly.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Jesus Christ laid aside His glory and humbled Himself as a man, and as a man He came as a servant to die on the cross that we might be saved.

The photographic negative of that picture is, hold it there is a word for that, give me a second, oh yeah, Donald Trump.
I tend to imagine a pastor preaching a Jesus who is the antithesis of Christ for this fulfillment. This phenomenon alone is wonderfully destroying the people of God.
 
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ZNP

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ooohhhh shivers!! in that case we should all vote for Trump so we can prevent "civil war".

So even though loaded with name-calling... that post of yours ends up being an argument to vote for Trump. Which of course is fine by all those 60 million or so who were going to vote for Trump anyway. But I am wondering if this was your intent.

His words are blunt, off-the-cuff and poorly chosen at times - but his actions are distinctively Christian friendly.
I just wanted everyone to go on record now, beforehand because the star of Bethlehem is said to reappear on Oct 3, 2am over Jerusalem.

I posted the video about this on my blog "Heavenly signs".

So thank you, you have been put down as totally rejecting this idea. Noted.
 
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ZNP

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Mary Trump Has Terrifying Explanation For Trump’s White Supremacist Comments

Ed Mazza
·Overnight Editor, HuffPost
Thu, October 1, 2020, 5:25 AM EDT


Donald Trump’s niece, Mary Trump, said the president was sending a chilling message to white supremacist groups when he told them to “stand back and stand by” during Tuesday night’s debate.

“It wasn’t a shoutout,” she said on “The Dean Obeidallah Show” on Wednesday. “It was an order ― and we need to see it in those terms and we should be terrified by that.”
 
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ZNP

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The outgoing head of MI6 has said the West “got it wrong” on China.

Sir Alex Younger warned that a major mistake was the assumption, held for the past two decades, that the Chinese Communist Party would become more like the West as it “matured”.

He said: “The idea that as they matured and became richer they were going to become more like us is for the birds.

“I think you’re seeing a steady but definite ideological divergence taking place. There will be at least two dominant value systems on one planet into the medium term and that’s just a fact and it’s where we are going.”

West 'got it wrong on China', warns MI6 boss
 
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JacksBratt

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This is one of the most serious things of all going on with Trump in front of our eyes --Trump is actually worshipped by too many in a kind of trust/faith and adulation, such as "greatest president ever" and so on.

What are the attributes of God? -- for one thing, that only He alone can save us. Only He alone can truly fix things. These adulations are only true about the Lord Himself, and not about any mortal man!
Funny... but I see him as being hated by far too many.. openly, outright.. even by much of the media...
 
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JacksBratt

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I doubt anyone loves Trump, he's like a bull. He pretty much does as he says though. Here we have an issue in a couple of ways. For the lawless one to be revealed the restrainer has to be removed. If you're a pre trib believer it means we are gone first off. But even if not, the restrainer is removed however that looks. But then, people are deceived and at first love this guy !! He is very charismatic, He's the great answer for the world they believe. And that ain't Trump . He doesn't have a single trait of charismatic going on.

I'm still voting for him by the way, doesn't mean I like looking at him.
I have always thought that the "restrainer" was the Holy Spirit.

But..

What if the "one who restrains" is actually the church..the body of Christ, all the living believers?

Then.. "the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."


Also.. what if the "mark of the beast" is an IP address? The mark of the "Beast" or the mark of the internet/beast.


No one can buy or sell without the mark.. because..... you don't have an IP address and all buying and selling is done over the internet..

Elon Musk described us as partial cyborgs.. we have electronic technology in our hand.. but not fully connected.
He suggested that the next level will connect your phone to your brain...
After that.. all they have to do is make it mandatory for everyone to have their own IP address and with 5G.. you could be your own direct connection to the world wide web...

Voila.... nobody buys or sells with out the mark of the beast.. or without an IP address...The mark.. indelibly on your wrist or forehead..


Just think'n out loud.


2 Thessalonians 2:5-7


New International Version



5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.
 
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JacksBratt

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It's okay. We all get a little delusional at times. Obama has been out of office for years, and I still think of him as the antichrist.
Me too....

Don't count him out yet.. Even if Trump is in for the next four years.. the next election is surely going to go left and Obama is primed to sit on the UN council..

I still see little horns sticking out of his head..LOL
 
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ZNP

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I have always thought that the "restrainer" was the Holy Spirit.

But..

What if the "one who restrains" is actually the church..the body of Christ, all the living believers?

Then.. "the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."
One pastor described it this way. Suppose everyone that is raptured is full of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit repels evil. Once they are raptured, then that which restrains evil would be taken away.
 
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ZNP

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The antithesis of Jesus

The antichrist would be the opposite, he would express hate towards others, speak of adultery, breaks faith in marriage, a liar, destroys those who oppress him, and does evil to his enemies.


1. You have heard that it was said to the ancients, “You shall not murder and whoever murders will be guilty to judgment.” But I say to you that everyone who is angry against his brother is guilty to judgment. Whoever says to his brother, “Raka” will be guilty to the Sanhedrin. Whoever says, “Idiot” will be guilty to the hell of fire.
Moses’ law—“Do not murder.”
Some taught it meant—“As long as you don’t murder, you can express other kinds of hatred.”
Jesus said—“Anyone who expresses even the smallest amount of hatred will be condemned by God.”


2. You have heard that it was said, “Do not commit adultery.” But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with covetousness for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Moses’ law—“Do not have sex with someone not your spouse.”
Some taught it meant—“As long as you don’t have sexual intercourse, you can express your desire in other ways.”
Jesus said—“Even the smallest expression of your illicit desire indicates that you are an adulterer.”


3. And it was said, “Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a divorce notice.” But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on grounds of sexual unfaithfulness, makes her commit adultery and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Moses’ law—“If you divorce, give your spouse a divorce notice.”
Some taught it meant—“You can get divorced for any reason.”
Jesus said—“Unless your spouse has already broken faith in the marriage, the one who enforces the divorce is the one who breaks faith in the marriage.”


4. Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients, “Do not break an oath, but you shall pay back to the Lord your oaths.” But I command you, do not swear at all—either by heaven (for it is God’s throne), or by the earth, for it is the footstool of his feet, nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King, Nor swear by your head for you are not able to make one hair while or black. But let your word be, “yes, yes; no, no.” But whatever more than this is of the evil one.
Moses’ law—“Make all oaths in Yahweh’s name.”
Some taught it meant—“Any oath made in someone else’s name, apart from God’s, need not be kept.”
Jesus said—“Every promise made is before God. Keep it or lose your integrity and be a liar like Satan.”


5. You have heard that it was said, “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.” But I say to you do not resist an evil person.
Moses’ Law—“Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life.”
Some taught it meant—“Any authority who steals from me or oppresses me, I can rebel against.”
Jesus said—“Do good to those who oppress you.”


6. You have heard that it was said, “You will love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good and he sends rain upon the righteous and the unrighteous.
Moses’ Law—“Love your neighbor. Do not do good to nations who have hated you.”
Some taught it meant—“Destroy those who hate God. Express hatred to those who persecute you.”
Jesus said—“Do good to your enemies, for that is what God constantly does. If you act like God, you will be rewarded by God.”
 
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Halbhh

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By what Measure?
1st and 2nd John Give us the only explicit definition of actichrist found in scripture.

Which of the the attributes of antichrist, that the 4 passages in those chapters explicitly teach of, are applicable to Paul's Man of Sin?
On this kind of complex and partly obscured question, one could read commentaries. While I don't think it is possible for 1 individual here in this mortal life to figure out all things to come (that would tend to go too close to contradicting Christ saying that only the Father knows the day), at least for this one, it's widely thought they are the same entity. So, if one thinks they are not, that would be interesting, and worth laying out how or why to think they are not the same person. 'Man of sin' could be only a prefigure or even just an overwhelming tendency in the worldly world (as could the AntiChrist even possibly be read to be more like a spirit that possesses leaders and so on). That would be a kind of in-between possibility. Alike, proceeding; recapitulation is something that happens many times. What's your view?
 
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Timtofly

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The Man of Sin is not Satan... he is empowered by Satan
and is commonly called the Antichrist or the (second) "Beast"
in Rev... or the "Little Horn" in Danel


Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

.
Nope that is the false prophet. Satan has been around western nations starting with Greece for 2500 years. You claim a human can live for 2500 years? Satan is the "man" pulling all the puppet strings of lawless governments.
 
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parousia70

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On this kind of complex and partly obscured question, one could read commentaries. While I don't think it is possible for 1 individual here in this mortal life to figure out all things to come (that would tend to go too close to contradicting Christ saying that only the Father knows the day), at least for this one, it's widely thought they are the same entity. So, if one thinks they are not, that would be interesting, and worth laying out how or why to think they are not the same person. 'Man of sin' could be only a prefigure or even just an overwhelming tendency in the worldly world (as could the AntiChrist even possibly be read to be more like a spirit that possesses leaders and so on). That would be a kind of in-between possibility. Alike, proceeding; recapitulation is something that happens many times. What's your view?

My view is that the conflation of the Biblical personalities of antichrist of 1 and 2 John, Paul's Man of Sin and the Beast of Revelation are solely derived from speculation and man made tradition alone, and that no scripture teaches they are the same entity.

Scripture plainly lists all three of them as separate, distinct entities, with unique, individual attributes that identify them.
The onus, of course, is on the positive claimant, to prove this connection, that they are one in the same, from scripture. So far I haven't known anyone to be able to do so.
Speculation and man made tradition, often admittedly, is all the evidence they can produce.
 
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Halbhh

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My view is that the conflation of the Biblical personalities of antichrist of 1 and 2 John, Paul's Man of Sin and the Beast of Revelation are solely derived from speculation and man made tradition alone, and that no scripture teaches they are the same entity.

Scripture plainly lists all three of them as separate, distinct entities, with unique, individual attributes that identify them.
The onus, of course, is on the positive claimant, to prove this connection, that they are one in the same, from scripture. So far I haven't known anyone to be able to do so.
Speculation and man made tradition is all the evidence they have.
Well, the beast seems to me to be a separate entity by the wording. I've presumed that's the common view. In contrast, as one reads, the 'lawless' one seems to be alike to the AntiChrist or the spirit that is the AntiChrist. While of course at least they'd be connected, they also seem the same entity. Still, you might like that I don't use such presumptions/doctrines/ideas while I read in scripture. I do something radically opposite: I have learned to utterly lay aside all preconceptions, and truly listen, without preconception. But it has been a while since I've read some areas, such as Revelation, so I don't assume I've already heard those fully yet. Also, I know that at least partly we are not yet given things until it's the right time.
 
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