If They Drink Any Deadly Thing, It Shall Not Harm Them

Mr. M · Sep 30, 2020

Mark 16:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they
cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall
not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Hammster · Sep 30, 2020

This was never spoken by Jesus. It’s a later addition.

Mr. M · Sep 30, 2020

Hammster said:
This was never spoken by Jesus. It’s a later addition.

Why would you post that statement without providing support? Since you are staff, why don't you just
delete the post after making such little effort to undermine it.

Minister Monardo said:
In my name shall they
cast out devils

Is that unscriptural?

Minister Monardo said:
they shall speak with new tongues

Is that unscriptural?

Minister Monardo said:
they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Is that unscriptural?

Minister Monardo said:
They shall take up serpents

You know the narrative of Paul being bitten by a deadly serpent, after which he took it in his hand and tossed it aside without any ill effects? Witnesses called him a god. If not, I will post it in a minute.

Minister Monardo said:
if they drink any deadly thing, it shall
not hurt them

Isn't this good to know in a world where everything, air, water, food, is becoming more and more polluted?
I am going to leave it in, since my Bible did.

Mr. M · Sep 30, 2020

Acts 28:
1 And when they were escaped, then they knew that the island was called Melita.
2 And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire,
and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold.
3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there
came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said
among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath
escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly:
but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

Hammster · Sep 30, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
What would you post that statement without providing support. Since you are staff, why don't you just
delete the post after making such little effort to undermine it.

Is that unscriptural?

Is that unscriptural?

Is that unscriptural?

You know the narrative of Paul being bitten by a deadly serpent, after which he took it in his hand and tossed it aside without any ill effects? Witnesses called him a god. If not, I will post it in a minute.

Isn't this good to know in a world where everything, air, water, food, is becoming more and more polluted?
I am going to leave it in, since my Bible did.

It’s unscriptural because it doesn’t appear in the oldest texts. It’s a later addition. Here’s a fair treatment of the subject. Yes, I agree with the author’s conclusion, but he gives both sides of the argument.

Did Mark Write Mark 16:9-20? A Textual Criticism Case Study – Alpha and Omega Ministries

Mr. M · Sep 30, 2020

Hammster said:
It’s unscriptural because it doesn’t appear in the oldest texts. It’s a later addition. Here’s a fair treatment of the subject. Yes, I agree with the author’s conclusion, but he gives both sides of the argument.

Did Mark Write Mark 16:9-20? A Textual Criticism Case Study – Alpha and Omega Ministries

Assuming the "oldest texts" are the oldest texts. A scholarly work or your agreement
in no way renders anything "unscriptural." The witness of all scripture does.
I don't redact my KJV based on every scholarly work.
The point of the thread was to edify others by encouraging them in their faith by the words that "nothing can harm us" in this world. In a time when
all we hear about is the deadly, there is One who gives Life, and has sealed us in His Spirit. The point then, is to live without fear in a world growing in fear, that sows and harvests fear.
We can do that with or without Mark 16:9-20.
I chose to use it today, and my work is never in vain in the Lord.

Hammster · Sep 30, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Assuming the "oldest texts" are the oldest texts. The scholarly work of James White or your agreement
in no way renders anything "unscriptural." The witness of all scripture does.
I don't redact my KJV based on every scholarly work.
Nor am I interested in debating the work of a debater, the point of the thread was to edify others by encouraging them in their faith by the words that "nothing can harm us" in this world. In a time when
all we hear about is the deadly, there is One who gives Life, and has sealed us in His Spirit. The point then, is to live without fear in a world growing in fear, that sows and harvests fear.
We can do that with or without Mark 16:9-20.
I chose to use it today, and my work is never in vain in the Lord.

I appreciate your intention. It’s a good one. I think there are better texts out there that can accomplish this. This text, in my opinion, is not the one. The article (not written by Dr. White) gives good reasons to doubt the authenticity of this text. I think it’s irresponsible to tell people that if they are bitten by a deadly snake or drink poison then they’ll be okay based on this text.

Mr. M · Sep 30, 2020

Hammster said:
I think it’s irresponsible to tell people that if they are bitten by a deadly snake or drink poison then they’ll be okay based on this text.

Amen. And you would have had the opportunity to express that if someone tried to make that point.
Paul was bitten by a deadly serpent and was unharmed. That would not be a basis to encourage people
to be "snake handlers" either. That was a lunatic fringe anyway.
This is not about what some people teach in error based on scripture, since that is true of all of the Bible. A false teacher can use most any verse and create a false narrative. [See Satan tempting Christ]
Was the actual author of the paper overly concerned with that as a motive?
I see now that the paper was written by a Colin Smith for a dissertation at Columbia Theological.
When I used the link, I was drawn to the 'about James White', and his ministry site. My error.
Here is the note from the NKJV
Verses 9–20 are bracketed in NU-Text as not original. They are lacking in Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, although nearly all other manuscripts of Mark contain them.

1213 · Sep 30, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Mark 16:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they
cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall
not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

I don’t think it means they should intentionally drink poison, because it is said also:

and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, 'He will give his angels charge concerning you.' and, 'On their hands they will bear you up, So that you don't dash your foot against a stone.'" Jesus said to him, "Again, it is written, 'You shall not test the Lord, your God.'"
Matt. 4:6-7

Hammster · Sep 30, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Amen. And you would have had the opportunity to express that if someone tried to make that point.

Then what is your point? What do you suppose Jesus meant when He said “They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”?

Mr. M · Sep 30, 2020

Hammster said:
Then what is your point? What do you suppose Jesus meant when He said “They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”?

Asked and answered.

Hammster · Sep 30, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Asked and answered.

Asked by whom, and answers when?

Mr. M · Sep 30, 2020

Hammster said:
Asked by whom, and answers when?

You have called into question the post from #2, I have been answering in #3, 4, 6 and 8 already. Let me be clear, I am not going to share your concern for textual variants. You have called attention to them, I have acknowledged them. I am not going to spend any more time debating that, so I will offer an alternative theory. I have already posted the note from NKJV:

Minister Monardo said:
Verses 9–20 are bracketed in NU-Text as not original. They are lacking in Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus, although nearly all other manuscripts of Mark contain them.

So the NU brackets Mark 16:9-20 because they are lacking in Codex Sinaiticus and Vaticanus. Maybe those texts omitted them over the same concern that you share with Colin Smith. Why would Jesus say that? What does it mean? Do you have any idea how many statements Jesus made that have been questioned by scholars with "would He have said that, and why?" Regardless, of textual variants, people are always going to question what the Lord said and why. I reviewed and commented on the two verses phrase by phrase in post #2. I have explained my intent, and my belief.
I will announce that I voted #3 in the poll, because that is what the Spirit put on my heart this morning, that we should not fear in a world where everything you eat, drink or breathe could be toxic.
As I already said, I believe we are sealed by the Holy Spirit and can live without fear.
That is my interpretation of the text, that is my intent in the post, this is my Faith.
Are you thinking of asking yet again? Please do not, please be done.

Hammster · Sep 30, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
You have called into question the post from #2, I have been answering in #3, 4, 6 and 8 already. Let me be clear, I am not going to share your concern for textual variants. You have called attention to them, I have acknowledged them. I am not going to spend any more time debating that, so I will offer an alternative theory.

My question had nothing to do with variants.

What do you suppose Jesus meant when He said “They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”?

Mr. M · Sep 30, 2020

Hammster said:
My question had nothing to do with variants.

What do you suppose Jesus meant when He said “They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”?

Minister Monardo said:
Is that unscriptural?
You know the narrative of Paul being bitten by a deadly serpent, after which he took it in his hand and tossed it aside without any ill effects? Witnesses called him a god. If not, I will post it in a minute.
Isn't this good to know in a world where everything, air, water, food, is becoming more and more polluted?

Minister Monardo said:
Acts 28:
1 And when they were escaped, then they knew that the island was called Melita.
2 And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire,
and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold.
3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there
came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said
among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath
escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly:
but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

Minister Monardo said:
the point of the thread was to edify others by encouraging them in their faith by the words that "nothing can harm us" in this world. In a time when
all we hear about is the deadly, there is One who gives Life, and has sealed us in His Spirit. The point then, is to live without fear in a world growing in fear, that sows and harvests fear.
We can do that with or without Mark 16:9-20.
I chose to use it today, and my work is never in vain in the Lord.

Minister Monardo said:
Paul was bitten by a deadly serpent and was unharmed. That would not be a basis to encourage people
to be "snake handlers" either. That was a lunatic fringe anyway.
This is not about what some people teach in error based on scripture, since that is true of all of the Bible. A false teacher can use most any verse and create a false narrative. [See Satan tempting Christ]

Minister Monardo said:
As I already said, I believe we are sealed by the Holy Spirit and can live without fear.
That is my interpretation of the text, that is my intent in the post, this is my Faith.

Hammster · Sep 30, 2020

Okay. I obviously can’t force you to answer the question.

Good day.

Butch5 · Sep 30, 2020

Hammster said:
It’s unscriptural because it doesn’t appear in the oldest texts. It’s a later addition. Here’s a fair treatment of the subject. Yes, I agree with the author’s conclusion, but he gives both sides of the argument.

Did Mark Write Mark 16:9-20? A Textual Criticism Case Study – Alpha and Omega Ministries

I don't think that proves it's unscriptural. It also appeared in other manuscripts of the era.

Hammster · Sep 30, 2020

Butch5 said:
I don't think that proves it's unscriptural. It also appeared in other manuscripts of the era.

It appears that there are various opinions on the matter.

Charlie24 · Sep 30, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Mark 16:
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they
cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall
not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

If you compare Luke 10:19-20 to Mark 16:17-18 it becomes a little clearer.

It's referring to the believer having power to cast out demons and devils, and they can bring no harm to the believer. It speaks of protection.

The serpent and scorpion have poison, compared to demons and devils whose poison is represented by their power to do evil.

I would suggest much prayer and understanding before making such an attempt.

Mr. M · Oct 1, 2020

Charlie24 said:
It speaks of protection.

Charlie24 said:
I would suggest much prayer and understanding before making such an attempt.

This is a great post 24. I was only presenting the protection, to encourage for overcoming fear.
To bring out the power and authority in His Name, and the caution is well advised. For any who may
wonder why you make this suggestion, this narrative may illustrate:
Acts 19:
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had
evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed
against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all,
and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

Thanks for contributing, all blessings to you.
James

If They Drink Any Deadly Thing, It Shall Not Harm Them

Yeshua taught this because:

He knew evil men would try to poison his disciples

He wanted His disciples to take up serpents and drink poison as a sign

He wanted His disciples to thrive in an unclean world without fear

other

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