Monksailor

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The History of Socialism's Failures is paramount in spite of its deceptive appeal. I think that it finds its remarkable appeal to those in our country today due to an exponential increase of a sense of ENTITLEMENT. Even the Democrats elected a renowned President who is widely known for this famous quote, "Ask NOT what your country can do for YOU, BUT what you can DO for your COUNTRY." What ever happened to that loyal and patriotic prevalence? Americans more and more want the government to be their Jeanie to solve every problem for them and to give them all that they need and want while taking for granted and dismissing the costs of the real and essential functioning and reason for the government's purpose. Sounds akin to the way more and more people are treating God these days, doesn't it?

Biden, the Democratic (I apologize for using "Demo" it was an abbreviation) party, has found catering to the ENTITLEMENT gang(s) is very productive, so far. If he wins what price (you are deceived if you think it will be paid by the wealthy) will America pay for all which he promises? Ask yourself, "Who owns all of the larger employment scenes and thereby controls wages and benefits?" or "Who has this and that politician in their pocket to affect legislation toward the benefit of wealthy or a more specific/personal interest of the wealthy?" or "Who owns the banking industry and can control the costs of getting a loan and interest paid on savings?" They hand all of their overhead costs, higher taxes from Biden, for ex, down to guess who??? Yep, you and me. Save ALL of that handout money and then some to pay the long-term consequences of such.

It used to be in US economics that when we commoners hurt then the wealthy over us would eventually feel it and "adjust" the national economic environment to heal our land. But those who care more about making China great, for example, instead of America have effected international economic policies and practices which have allowed the wealthy to invest and secure significant holdings OUTSIDE of the USA which disrupts to the bad for us commoners that "default" economic "balance." I believe that President Trump, being the world-wide entrepreneur that he was, going into the Presidency, realized this more than we can imagine and hence the foreign policies he has engineered in order to "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!". When our government overextends itself to provide more than it is mandated and charges the wealthy unreasonably to fund such ridiculousness the government "evicts" its wealthy out from under its unreasonable auspices to another more favorable nation's and along with it much that could heal our nation. The wealthy like to be honored and revered. They have been notorious in charity and beneficial in orchestrating national economic success in the US but the bite of government has been quite painful from those who practice taking unreasonably from the wealthy. It is much better to provide benefits to the wealthy for charitableness than to force it as they will just move to another country and the people overall suffer.

Many today do not REALLY understand socialism for all that it includes. Please check these out as they will explain:
 
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MIDutch

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Would you identify Sweden or Germany or the Netherlands or Ireland or Switzerland (etc.) as socialist countries? Would you say they are failures?

Just curious as to what your definition of socialism is and how you determine failure.
 
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Fantine

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Yawn. The United States could enact every proposal on Bernie Sanders' and AOC's wish list and not be anywhere nearly as socialistic as most of western Europe--where people are healthier, better educated, happier (according to studies), enjoying far less poverty and a high standard of living.

Venezuela--Trump's warning about socialism--is not a disaster because of socialism. It is a disaster because it is run by totalitarian oligarchs (like Trump aspires to become) and because it was overly dependent on the fossil fuel industry and got into economic trouble when fossil fuel prices decreased (Trump pushes fossil fuels and coal so much I almost think they are giving him a commission, which he would certainly joyfully accept.)
 
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Jonathan Walkerin

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Also Trump arranged tax cuts for the rich and corporations that are estimated to lose US tax revenue with sum exceeding a trillion in next ten years.

US is amassing debt at huge rate

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

and the smaller % of the population is increasingly owning larger and larger % of the wealth

Wealth Inequality in America: Key Facts & Figures | St. Louis Fed

This is not healthy for the society. God knows how bad the issue will be when the current epidemic blows over.

Those who know how to make money and have means to do so will be ultra rich.

The others might remember that their parents at one time were considered middle class before they had to sell the house to get some medical bills paid.
 
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Belk

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The History of Socialism's Failures is paramount in spite of its deceptive appeal. I think that it finds its remarkable appeal to those in our country today due to an exponential increase of a sense of ENTITLEMENT. Even the Democrats elected a renowned President who is widely known for this famous quote, "Ask NOT what your country can do for YOU, BUT what you can DO for your COUNTRY." What ever happened to that loyal and patriotic prevalence? Americans more and more want the government to be their Jeanie to solve every problem for them and to give them all that they need and want while taking for granted and dismissing the costs of the real and essential functioning and reason for the government's purpose. Sounds akin to the way more and more people are treating God these days, doesn't it?

Biden, the Demo party, has found catering to the ENTITLEMENT gang(s) is very productive, so far. If he wins what price (you are deceived if you think it will be paid by the wealthy) will America pay for all which he promises? Ask yourself, "Who owns all of the larger employment scenes and thereby controls wages and benefits?" or "Who has this and that politician in their pocket to affect legislation toward the benefit of wealthy or a more specific/personal interest of the wealthy?" or "Who owns the banking industry and can control the costs of getting a loan and interest paid on savings?" They hand all of their overhead costs, higher taxes from Biden, for ex, down to guess who??? Yep, you and me. Save ALL of that handout money and then some to pay the long-term consequences of such.

It used to be in US economics that when we commoners hurt then the wealthy over us would eventually feel it and "adjust" the national economic environment to heal our land. But those who care more about making China great, for example, instead of America have effected international economic policies and practices which have allowed the wealthy to invest and secure significant holdings OUTSIDE of the USA which disrupts to the bad for us commoners that "default" economic "balance." I believe that President Trump, being the world-wide entrepreneur that he was, going into the Presidency, realized this more than we can imagine and hence the foreign policies he has engineered in order to "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!".

giphy.gif
 
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Tom 1

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It used to be in US economics that when we commoners hurt then the wealthy over us would eventually feel it and "adjust" the national economic environment to heal our land.

?
 
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MIDutch

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It used to be in US economics that when we commoners hurt then the wealthy over us would eventually feel it and "adjust" the national economic environment to heal our land.
I was thinking the same thing.

When have the wealthy, in general, ever done anything for the common man unless they were forced to do so.

Heck, I would imagine that they would still be dumping toxic waste in the closest river just to reduce their operating costs if they could do so.

I would imagine they would totally eliminate safety measures for their emplyees to reduce their operating costs if they could do so (who was that guy in West Virginia not too long ago that had a bunch of miners get killed because he couldn't be bothered with mine safety?).

I wouldn't even put it past them to use underage workers in sweat shop factories to produce their products just to reduce their operating costs if they could do so (Ivanka trump anyone?).
 
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Monksailor

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I feel sorry for those of you who see wealthy as not being capable of charitableness. So sorry. I m even more sorry to those of you wealthy who have to deal with such ignorance, prejudice, and even hate.

I could prove you so utterly wrong but I can already see that it would be a waste of time to acquire the specific data and I just don't have time to waste.

It is a given that this will be attempted to be diminished in all sorts of ways but I give you this link for starters and if you REALLY are interested in truth you conduct an OPEN-MINDED, objective search on your own relative to the wealthy and charitable contributions or simply charity. I got this link quickly but there was another which gave stats close to this so here it is: 7 billionaires who won’t leave their fortunes to their kids ((Bill and Melinda Gates (over $100,000,000,000 net worth) have vowed to give 95%-99% of their net worth to charity and they have already given half of that, $50,000,000,000, and most of it has gone to provide help to the poor and toward the development and dispensing of health needs.))
 
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Tom 1

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I feel sorry for those of you who see wealthy as not being capable of charitableness. So sorry. I m even more sorry to those of you wealthy who have to deal with such ignorance, prejudice, and even hate.

Sure, Bill Gates, Rockefeller, the Clintons etc - all of them did/have done a lot of good with their cash. It’s just hard to match your vision of US history with anything that happened, I was hoping you could elaborate a bit.
 
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Almost every single Socialist commentator I have come across has denounced Biden as being nothing but a Neo Lib capitalist. He has pushed back against almost every popular social proposal and is being considered as simply a "prevent total facsim" vote by most lefties.
 
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Fantine

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What about Jimmy Carter? Not wealthy but certainly gave and continues giving to the world. My hero.

The founder of Home Depot is giving 95% of his fortune to charity. He is also a Trump supporter.

So my dilemma. To shop at Home Depot or Lowe's? Leaning towards Lowe's.
 
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The History of Socialism's Failures is paramount in spite of its deceptive appeal. I think that it finds its remarkable appeal to those in our country today due to an exponential increase of a sense of ENTITLEMENT. Even the Democrats elected a renowned President who is widely known for this famous quote, "Ask NOT what your country can do for YOU, BUT what you can DO for your COUNTRY." What ever happened to that loyal and patriotic prevalence? Americans more and more want the government to be their Jeanie to solve every problem for them and to give them all that they need and want while taking for granted and dismissing the costs of the real and essential functioning and reason for the government's purpose. Sounds akin to the way more and more people are treating God these days, doesn't it?

Biden, the Demo party, has found catering to the ENTITLEMENT gang(s) is very productive, so far. If he wins what price (you are deceived if you think it will be paid by the wealthy) will America pay for all which he promises? Ask yourself, "Who owns all of the larger employment scenes and thereby controls wages and benefits?" or "Who has this and that politician in their pocket to affect legislation toward the benefit of wealthy or a more specific/personal interest of the wealthy?" or "Who owns the banking industry and can control the costs of getting a loan and interest paid on savings?" They hand all of their overhead costs, higher taxes from Biden, for ex, down to guess who??? Yep, you and me. Save ALL of that handout money and then some to pay the long-term consequences of such.

It used to be in US economics that when we commoners hurt then the wealthy over us would eventually feel it and "adjust" the national economic environment to heal our land. But those who care more about making China great, for example, instead of America have effected international economic policies and practices which have allowed the wealthy to invest and secure significant holdings OUTSIDE of the USA which disrupts to the bad for us commoners that "default" economic "balance." I believe that President Trump, being the world-wide entrepreneur that he was, going into the Presidency, realized this more than we can imagine and hence the foreign policies he has engineered in order to "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!". When our government overextends itself to provide more than it is mandated and charges the wealthy unreasonably to fund such ridiculousness the government "evicts" its wealthy out from under its unreasonable auspices to another more favorable nation's and along with it much that could heal our nation. The wealthy like to be honored and revered. They have been notorious in charity and beneficial in orchestrating national economic success in the US but the bite of government has been quite painful from those who practice taking unreasonably from the wealthy. It is much better to provide benefits to the wealthy for charitableness than to force it as they will just move to another country and the people overall suffer.
Well, it’s a good thing that Uncle Joe isn’t a socialist, then, innit?
 
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Monksailor

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Additionally, when the wealthy give they usually give large amounts and the funds procurement dept of whoever they give to go into a hot, hyper-drive campaign to continually and constantly squeeze more out of them. If you have ever made a large year end donation to one of your favorite charities, you know what I am talking about. Such a charity receives a letter from me to cease and desist and if they do not they become spam, blocked, and thrown in the recycle bin, unopened. It saddens me sometimes cause I have done that to a great expounder of God's Word but with gold-digging piranhas at the helm in the funds procurement dept. I have to tell myself that that Pastor is ultimately at the helm there overall or should be and he is responsible for their wasteful (those were rich-colored, thick and glossy small booklets I threw away, wasting the money I gave them) and badgering behavior. And he can leave if they will not change.

And there are other honorable reasons why one would chose to give in secret/anonymously. So the record cannot prove how much one gives, although may be able to prove a minimum. Case in point is that due to Matt 6:1-4, my tithing/giving RECORD at church only shows a very small percentage of my total giving due to my forgetting to get cash for an envelop before one Sunday and having to write a check, otherwise they would show I gave nothing. I want my rewards from heaven, not from man, which IMO is all you get when you submit it to being recorded as a donation from you. Too many times have I seen those rewarded in church is various ways due to their large giving record. And one time we had a church split over such a person having been given such a reward in control/administration and a board member later confessed to me in tears that that was the reason. And IRS rewards you if you itemize it. Such rewards are only temporal and I want the eternal. God KNOWS what I give and that is all that matters and I bet there are lot of wealthy out there who are like that, too, like the families which started AMWAY. I bet they have a lot of secret charitable donations. Known is $139,000,000 in charitable contributions (political contributions aside) from the DeVos family and the other half of Amway's founders, the Van Andel family's contributions are not found (hmm) except that they founded a very expensive institute with 4 divisions for research and development and education (PhD in certain cellular studies) "research focuses on cancer epigenetics and Parkinson's disease. Its educational efforts support teacher development and science education from early elementary through the doctoral level.)
See: Van Andel Institute - Wikipedia

So looking in the record only shows a minimum of charity, but records DO exist as seen above. The wealthy DEFINITELY DO a LOT of good for humanity with their wealth.
 
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Monksailor

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Would you identify Sweden or Germany or the Netherlands or Ireland or Switzerland (etc.) as socialist countries? Would you say they are failures?

Just curious as to what your definition of socialism is and how you determine failure.
NONE of them are on the list of Socialist states in the world now or before. pasted from: List of socialist states - Wikipedia

"According to Merriam-Webster, socialism is “any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.”

"Yet the adherents of “socialism” typically claim to want something different, specifically a large, cradle-to-grave welfare state. Often forgotten or ignored is that such a welfare state must be financed, and that resources only will be available if the economic system is functioning efficiently and with a high degree of productivity. Government control is typically the enemy of both." and "Socialism is a failed economic and social arrangement. In many cases, socialists have ended up being forced to adopt capitalist measures for their survival." See: Young Americans’ Ignorance of Socialism Threatens Our Freedom and Vitality
 
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Monksailor

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Well, it’s a good thing that Uncle Joe isn’t a socialist, then, innit?
Biden is the parties' puppet. He said so last night. We will see where the party leads him if he is elected but it is pretty clear that socialistic medicine is on the agenda just to start with.
 
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