Grapes in the Early Spring

Der Alte · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
If a person is intoxicated, they are not of sound mind, or in one's right mind, and they have a loss of exercising self control, and they are not thinking soberly, and they cannot curb their passions like they would if they were sober.
A person will do things while intoxicated that they normally would not do.

The definition does NOT speak specifically about drinking/being intoxicated. There can be many things which can make a person not sober minded which have nothing to do with drinking. The word "sober' in the scripture does not refer to not being intoxicated.

Isilwen · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
It is basically saying it is both bad and good for you. If it is bad, the good it does, basically does not matter.

I suggest reading it again. Your claim, which I have now proven to be wrong is that there are health consequences with moderate alcohol consumption. My link proves you wrong. It is when you drink over a moderate amount that it starts to cause health issues.

Mr. M · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Again, you are being influenced by your favor of alcohol and this has nothing to do with what the Bible says on alcohol

I have no 'favor for alcohol', I happen to know that any real change in a person takes place in
the heart by the working of the Holy Spirit. That is what I choose to present, as opposed to facts and opinions from various sources, logical arguments, worldly reasoning and anything that would suggest
a "New Year's resolution" brand of change is what Christ is accomplishing in those who belong to Him.

Isilwen · Sep 30, 2020

I can actually take or leave alcohol. I drink it as I said socially if I choose to or at home. I am not consumed with the thought that I must drink alcohol.

I am just arguing against what I consider to be fallacy regarding moderate drinking of alcohol or even light drinking, which is where I fall on the spectrum, that it causes health issues or that my one wine cooler causes me to be impaired.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2020

Isilwen said:
I have asked for proof to back up your claims, you still haven't provided any. You are also trying to discredit me by saying I didn't pay attention to a certain part of that class, why is that?

From the government website:

There is no way to get all the alcohol or other drugs out of the circulatory system in order to become sober quickly. Coffee, fresh air, cold showers or eating will not help to remove the alcohol or other drug combination from the circulatory system. Time is the only medically-proven method to remove alcohol or other drug combinations from the circulatory system. It takes about an hour for the body to get rid of one normal drink from the circulatory system. Therefore, if someone has had four normal drinks, the person should wait four hours or more before driving. Keep in mind that “sober” means that no alcohol or other impairing drugs are in the circulatory system of the body.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/alcoholanddrugs.pdf

Car accidents are 36.6% more severe even if alcohol was barely detectable in the driver's bloodstream, the study shows.

Even Small Amounts of Alcohol May Impair Driving

You said:
I talk with police officers and paramedics all the time. It is part of my job. I actually asked about wine coolers and only having one and what I am telling you is exactly what they told me. We actually did a breathalyzer test (benefits of getting to know the police in your area after seeing them time and time again on medical scenes) on me after one wine cooler to see. It came back 0. No alcohol detected. The conclusion is that I am not affected by drinking one wine cooler in the least.

How long after did you drink it? If one hour has passed then that means it is out of your system. Maybe he was messing with you and was giving you false information. Maybe his tester was faulty. The sure way to prove it to yourself is to buy a breathalizer at Amazon for 30 bucks.

Wine coolers generally come in cans or bottles, usually in 8 to 12 ounce, single-serving portions. ... For example, a woman who weighs 140 pounds and consumes four wine coolers over a three hour period would have a BAC of 0.08, which would mean she would be unable to drive legally in most states.

Source:
The Effects of Wine Coolers

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2020

Isilwen said:
I have asked for proof to back up your claims, you still haven't provided any. You are also trying to discredit me by saying I didn't pay attention to a certain part of that class, why is that?

I talk with police officers and paramedics all the time. It is part of my job. I actually asked about wine coolers and only having one and what I am telling you is exactly what they told me. We actually did a breathalyzer test (benefits of getting to know the police in your area after seeing them time and time again on medical scenes) on me after one wine cooler to see. It came back 0. No alcohol detected. The conclusion is that I am not affected by drinking one wine cooler in the least.

You can boast about your job all you like, look at the data from government websites and they all say that your judgment is imparied after one drink and that being sober means not having any alcohol.

Isilwen · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
How long after did you drink it? If one hour has passed then that means it is out of your system.

Literally five minutes after I drank it. I was also tested on my reaction times. We basically did a science experiment. I showed no signs of impairment.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2020

Isilwen said:
I can actually take or leave alcohol. I drink it as I said socially if I choose to or at home. I am not consumed with the thought that I must drink alcohol.

I am just arguing against what I consider to be fallacy regarding moderate drinking of alcohol or even light drinking, which is where I fall on the spectrum, that it causes health issues or that my one wine cooler causes me to be impaired.

The issue comes down to defending a drink whether one is controlled by it or not. But the problem you fail to realize is all the death, hurt, and ruin alcohol has caused for many each year. You have to bury your head in the sand in order to not see that. With all the bad fruit that alcohol brings, a believer who is supposed to be of the light and what is good should not even dabble with it because of all the hurt and death it brings. But you are free to do as you please (of course). Just know that God's ways are higher than our ways.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2020

Isilwen said:
Literally five minutes after I drank it. I was also tested on my reaction times. We basically did a science experiment. I showed no signs of impairment.

The impairment may be unnoticeable to you, but there is still an impairment regardless. If you are a tall or heavy guy, then sure, it is not going to affect you as bad. But it is still going to affect you (even you don't notice it). Again, get your own breathizer test device (like from Amazon or something), and check it for yourself. To say that no indication of alcohol is in your system after drinking means that the device is malfunctioning or the operater is giving faulty data. Either that, or the wine cooler is super crazy low in alcohol content.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2020

Alcohol is an idol in this country. One is cool if they drink. They are one of the guys if they do.
But what is not cool is when wine bites like a serpent in their own life.

Isilwen · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
But you are free to do as you please (of course).

Thank you for admitting that.

Bible Highlighter said:
Just know that God's ways are higher than our ways.

Yep and God time and again said not to be drunk, which is different than having one wine cooler maybe twice a year.

Bible Highlighter said:
You have to bury your head in the sand in order to not see that.

My head isn't buried into anything. As an EMT, I see what excessive alcohol consumption does. I simply see it differently then you do. Moderation is key. Some people cannot moderate.

Bible Highlighter said:
But the problem you fail to realize is all the death, hurt, and ruin alcohol has caused for many each year.

There are many things that cause those things, including marriage. Should we throw the baby out with the bathwater and stop all things that cause that?

Bible Highlighter said:
With all the bad fruit that alcohol brings, a believer who is supposed to be of the light and what is good should not even dabble with it because of all the hurt and death it brings.

That is your opinion and nothing more.

Isilwen · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
The impairment may be unnoticeable to you, but there is still an impairment regardless. If you are a tall or heavy guy, then sure, it is not going to affect you as bad. But it is still going to affect you (even you don't notice it). Again, get your own breathizer test device (like from Amazon or something), and check it for yourself. To say that no indication of alcohol is in your system after drinking means that the device is malfunctioning or the operater is giving faulty data. Either that, or the wine cooler is super crazy low in alcohol content.

Why would I get my own breathalyzer when the one used was the one that police use?

Also, it is about 3.2% alcohol.

Isilwen · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Alcohol is an idol in this country. One is cool if they drink. They are one of the guys if they do.
But what is not cool is when wine bites like a serpent in their own life.

I agree that it can be an idol to some people and not to others. As I said, I can take it or leave it.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
With all the bad fruit that alcohol brings, a believer who is supposed to be of the light and what is good should not even dabble with it because of all the hurt and death it brings.

Isilwen said:
That is your opinion and nothing more.

It is not.

Here are...

21 Warnings That Speak Against The Alcoholic Beverage Itself.
(That is not specifically or exclusively talking about drunkenness)

Passages For the Old Testament Saint:

1) Deuteronomy 29:5-6
- God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
(The reason for this action was taken so as to show how they knew God).

2) Deuteronomy 32:33
- Enemy's wine is like the poison of serpents vs. Israelite's pure blood of the grape (verse 14).

3) 1 Samuel 1:14-15
- Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

4) Proverbs 4:17
- Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

5) Proverbs 20:1
- Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

6) Proverbs 23:31
- God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

7) Proverbs 23:32
- Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

8) Proverbs 23:35
- Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning.
(It also says Alcohol is habit forming).

9) Proverbs 31:4-5
- Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

10) Ecclesiastes 2:3
- The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not.
(c.f. Ecclesiastes 12:8)

11) Ecclesiastes 10:17
- A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

12) Isaiah 5:22
- There is a woe unto them who mix strong drinks.

13) Jeremiah 35:2-14
- The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

14) Daniel 1:5-17
- Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

15) Hosea 4:11
- Intoxicating wine seduces the heart.

Passages For the New Testament Saint:

16) Romans 14:21
- Do not do anything (Including drinking intoxicating beverages) to make your brother to stumble.

17) 1 Timothy 3:2-3
- Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

18) 1 Timothy 3:8
- Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

19) 1 Timothy 3:11
- Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

20) Titus 1:7-8
- A bishop is not to be given to wine.

21) Titus 2:2-3
- The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.

Source Used:
75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol

HARK! · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Wow. So researching the internet cannot be trusted? Granted, I am not saying everything on the internet is true, but to simply doubt entirely internet searches is pretty silly - IMO. But you are free to believe as you wish. I think the problem started when Facebook and Twitter came along. A lot of disinformation was pushed on those platforms, and so folks started to distrust everything.

The way to check to see if something is true or false even in researching is to look at both sides of the debate on the internet. What side has more evidence and lines up better with the Scriptures? Leave your biases at home and just follow the facts (Whether you like those facts or not). Most like alcoholic beverages, and so they have a bias going in. I think that is what is swaying folks towards defending alcohol and it has nothing to do with the facts or the truth. Drinking alcohol is selfish in my view and it primarily leads to destruction, harm, and hurt of others and oneself. The kingdom of God is about one being unselfish and it is about loving God and loving others (even with the sacrifice of oneself).

Apparently you didn't Google 'Burden if Proof'.

Who Has The Burden Of Proof?
In general, the person or party making an argument has the burden of proof to justify it (whether they argue that something is true or false). This applies, in particular, to situations where someone challenges a prevailing status quo or a well-established idea.

In a debate, the burden of proof lies typically with the person making a claim; the opposing side doesn’t have a burden of proof until evidence has been provided for the original argument. However, once the evidence has been provided, it’s up to the opposing side to show if the evidence is insufficient. If the opposing side argues that your claim is invalid, then, in turn, the burden of proof is on them to justify the disagreement.

As Christopher Hitchens famously stated:

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Christopher Hitchens.

Burden Of Proof Fallacy: Who Has The Burden of Proof and Why? - Fallacy In Logic

I don't believe that Yahshua and his disciples were being selfish when they drank wine, and offered it to others.

Isilwen · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
It is not.

Here are...

21 Warnings That Speak Against The Alcoholic Beverage Itself.
(That is not specifically or exclusively talking about drunkenness)

Passages For the Old Testament Saint:

1) Deuteronomy 29:5-6
- God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
(The reason for this action was taken so as to show how they knew God).

2) Deuteronomy 32:33
- Enemy's wine is like the poison of serpents vs. Israelite's pure blood of the grape (verse 14).

3) 1 Samuel 1:14-15
- Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

4) Proverbs 4:17
- Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

5) Proverbs 20:1
- Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

6) Proverbs 23:31
- God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

7) Proverbs 23:32
- Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

8) Proverbs 23:35
- Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning.
(It also says Alcohol is habit forming).

9) Proverbs 31:4-5
- Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

10) Ecclesiastes 2:3
- The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not.
(c.f. Ecclesiastes 12:8)

11) Ecclesiastes 10:17
- A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

12) Isaiah 5:22
- There is a woe unto them who mix strong drinks.

13) Jeremiah 35:2-14
- The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

14) Daniel 1:5-17
- Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

15) Hosea 4:11
- Intoxicating wine seduces the heart.

Passages For the New Testament Saint:

16) Romans 14:21
- Do not do anything (Including drinking intoxicating beverages) to make your brother to stumble.

17) 1 Timothy 3:2-3
- Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

18) 1 Timothy 3:8
- Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

19) 1 Timothy 3:11
- Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

20) Titus 1:7-8
- A bishop is not to be given to wine.

21) Titus 2:2-3
- The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.

Source Used:
75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol

Okay, I'll correct what I said. It is your opinion based on what you have read in the Bible. I also see in the Bible where it says not to get drunk. So moderation is key.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2020

Isilwen said:
Why would I get my own breathalyzer when the one used was the one that police use?

Also, it is about 3.2% alcohol.

That's pretty low. The average wine cooler is about 6%.
Anyways, there should be some alcohol in your system according to the device if you (if the wine cooler was not lying about it's alcohol content).

Again, get your own breathalizer and test it for yourself. Dont' trust people so easily.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2020

HARK! said:
Apparently you didn't Google 'Burden if Proof'.

Who Has The Burden Of Proof?
In general, the person or party making an argument has the burden of proof to justify it (whether they argue that something is true or false). This applies, in particular, to situations where someone challenges a prevailing status quo or a well-established idea.

In a debate, the burden of proof lies typically with the person making a claim; the opposing side doesn’t have a burden of proof until evidence has been provided for the original argument. However, once the evidence has been provided, it’s up to the opposing side to show if the evidence is insufficient. If the opposing side argues that your claim is invalid, then, in turn, the burden of proof is on them to justify the disagreement.

As Christopher Hitchens famously stated:

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Christopher Hitchens.

Burden Of Proof Fallacy: Who Has The Burden of Proof and Why? - Fallacy In Logic

I don't believe that Yahshua and his disciples were being selfish when they drank wine, and offered it to others.

Does this mean you cannot prove anything? How do you know your article here is true? The burden of proof is on the person who wrote the article to prove their claims.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2020

Isilwen said:
Okay, I'll correct what I said. It is your opinion based on what you have read in the Bible. I also see in the Bible where it says not to get drunk. So moderation is key.

The Bible speaks negatively of strong alcoholic beverages even without a reference to drunkenness and so that tells me that it is bad. Anyone can read these verses for themselves and draw the same conclusion if they are not biased towards drinking.

Isilwen · Sep 30, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
That's pretty low. The average wine cooler is about 6%.
Anyways, there should be some alcohol in your system according to the device if you (if the wine cooler was not lying about it's alcohol content).

Again, get your own breathalizer and test it for yourself. Dont' trust people so easily.

He went and used it that night on people. It was working just fine.

Grapes in the Early Spring

The wine was...

Fermented

Unfermented

This is me about 1 yr. old.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

שמע

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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