Presidential Debates

JohnDB · Sep 30, 2020

Tiberius Lee said:
I didn’t see debate between Clinton and Bush H .. I was serving in mission field in West Bengal that time along with my parents. And Clinton vs Dole.. I was in Bible college and we were not allowed to watch TV.

But does that make any difference? Human decency doesn’t go out the window because someone in the history did something indecent.

What I'm pointing out is that it's a successful tactic... Clinton was notorious for it and successful.

Albion · Sep 30, 2020

JohnDB said:
This is where some real practice and coaching would have really helped Trump with more concise answers.

I agree, and he does have a way of not getting to the most important points. For example, when pressed on why he is concerned about vote fraud, he several times referred to the handful of ballots found in a wastebasket recently, all of them with votes cast for Trump. But he never got to the literal buying of hundreds of votes by an organization set up for that purpose by a Minnesota Congresswoman, or the issue of 'Vote Harvesting' by which just anyone can just take a ballot to some invalid, or whatever, get them to fill it out (as instructed?) and then return these and dozens more to the election office -- after election day has passed -- and they're valid. But no, Trump just reiterated some of the less sensational fraud.

JohnDB · Sep 30, 2020

Albion said:
I agree, and he does have a way of not getting to the most important points. For example, when pressed on why he is concerned about vote fraud, he several times referred to the handful of ballots found in a wastebasket recently, all of them with votes cast for Trump. But he never got to the literal buying of hundreds of votes by an organization set up for that purpose by a Minnesota Congresswoman, or the issue of 'Vote Harvesting' by which just anyone can just take a ballot to some invalid, or whatever, get them to fill it out (as instructed?) and then return these and dozens more to the election office -- after election day has passed -- and they're valid. But no, Trump just reiterated some of the less sensational fraud.

Actually significant numbers of mailed in ballots are usually tossed...

Mail in ballots are significantly higher for Joe than Donald...where in person cast ballots will usually go for Trump.

Joe may lose on this fact alone.

wing2000 · Sep 30, 2020

Albion said:
Oh, absolutely. Not only was the debate a mess because of the moderator not moderating and then adding insult to injury by making himself the third debater...

but Trump's interruptions came mainly because he wasn't allowed to finish a thought without being stopped by the moderator or Biden. Biden insisted on talking on and on at the same time as Trump had the floor. Not an interruption, but just a steady drone as if it was he who had the floor instead of Trump. The resulting noise appeared to be a planned tactic.

Trump simply refused to abide by the agreed to rules - which Chris Wallace stated at the outset (with several reminders thereafter):

The Commission has designed the format, six roughly 15 minute segments with two minute answers from each candidate to the first question, then open discussion for the rest of each segment. Both campaigns have agreed to these rules.

Albion · Sep 30, 2020

JohnDB said:
Actually significant numbers of mailed in ballots are usually tossed...

Oh, yes. Or, we also have heard testimony from election workers of counting thousands of them as valid without checking the signatures or postmarks as required.

Mail in ballots are significantly higher for Joe than Donald...where in person cast ballots will usually go for Trump.

Joe may lose on this fact alone.

But remember that if he appears on Election Day or the day following to be trailing, Party workers can THEN hit the highways and byways to get enough other people who hadn't voted to fill out a ballot, give it to that complete stranger, and have him return it for counting along with perhaps hundreds of others. This varies by state, but some version of it will be in effect this year in enough of them.

JohnDB · Sep 30, 2020

Albion said:
Oh, yes. Or, we also have heard testimony from election workers of counting thousands of them as valid without checking the signatures or postmarks as required.

But remember that if he appears on Election Day or the day following to be trailing, Party workers can THEN hit the highways and byways to get enough other people who hadn't voted to fill out a ballot, give it to that complete stranger, and have him return it for counting along with perhaps hundreds of others. This varies by state, but some version of it will be in effect this year in enough of them.

Remember Bush Gore election?

Mail in Ballots are audited by both sides...
And if there is anything that can get the ballot tossed out, the poll watchers will get it tossed out.

Pregnant Chad's versus hanging Chad's and "Is a 3 corner hanging Chad really just a tired pregnant chad?"

Remember all that?

Well....

Get ready for it to happen again.

Tiberius Lee · Sep 30, 2020

JohnDB said:
What I'm pointing out is that it's a successful tactic... Clinton was notorious for it and successful.

Again not interested who did what in the history .. as I have said in my post, just because someone was indecent in the past doesn’t give me or any one right to be indecent.

We can talk about policy , we can talk about each person’s debate tactic .. but if you can’t see the indecency in this particular situation then I don’t think you and I have any thing in common that we can talk about.

Albion · Sep 30, 2020

JohnDB said:
Remember all that?

Well....

Get ready for it to happen again.

Oh, no. It will be much worse this time.

That Bush-Gore thing operated entirely within the normal rules of elections and involved only one state.

Get ready for all sorts of challenges this time, involving possibly dozens of different states with different election laws, most of them never seen in operation before because they were just enacted within the past several months, and lots of different courts ruling who-knows-which way.

KCfromNC · Sep 30, 2020

Arc F1 said:
Trump didn't cause this virus. The economy was doing really good until this.

Yeah, Donald was lucky enough to coast on Obama's coat-tails until he faced his first actual challenge. And we all know what happened next.

Biden will stop everything and try to make people more dependent on government.

I can't imagine why anyone would believe this.

KCfromNC · Sep 30, 2020

JohnDB said:
Yeah...he did.

Perhaps I should have been more clear - is there actual evidence of this, or just random assertions?

KCfromNC · Sep 30, 2020

essentialsaltes said:
It's not clear. Joe Biden did call Trump xenophobic, but it's not clear there was any connection to Trump stopping some flights from China, and in context it seems Biden is not talking specifically about that. And Biden did allude to Donald's record in general and other things that he has done that are, well, xenophobic.

On Feb. 1, 2020, the day after Trump announced the restrictions, Biden tweeted, “We are in the midst of a crisis with the coronavirus. We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump’s record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering. He is the worst possible person to lead our country through a global health emergency.” Biden didn’t mention the travel restriction specifically.

In a May 2020 speech to the Asian American and Pacific Islanders Victory Fund, a political action committee dedicated to mobilizing voters in the Asian American and Pacific Islander communities, Biden called Trump’s response to the coronavirus “xenophobic.” He said Trump was responsible for “a new rash of racial messages, verbal and physical attacks and other acts of hate, some subtle, some overt, against the Asian American and Pacific Islanders.”

Biden listed examples such as Trump telling CBS News White House correspondent Weijia Jiang to “ask China” in response to a question about the coronavirus she had asked him during a press briefing at the White House, and criticizing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for visiting Chinatown in San Francisco to help boost business there.

The Anti-Defamation League reported a rise in hate crimes victimizing Asians amid the COVID-19 pandemic, pointing to rhetoric from elected officials, including Trump, who referred to the disease as the “Kung flu,” among other racist terms.

If people are going to split hairs over Donald calling the virus a hoax, seems that this is enough to demonstrate that Biden didn't say what Donald claimed.

KCfromNC · Sep 30, 2020

JohnDB said:
Then you have to claim the exact same thing about Clinton...
He interrupted and made all kinds of salicional claims about Bush SR and Bob Dole during those debates.

OK, you've convinced me. I'm not voting for Bill in this election.

JohnDB · Sep 30, 2020

KCfromNC said:
Perhaps I should have been more clear - is there actual evidence of this, or just random assertions?

Someone already did.

JohnDB · Sep 30, 2020

Tiberius Lee said:
Again not interested who did what in the history .. as I have said in my post, just because someone was indecent in the past doesn’t give me or any one right to be indecent.

We can talk about policy , we can talk about each person’s debate tactic .. but if you can’t see the indecency in this particular situation then I don’t think you and I have any thing in common that we can talk about.

Oh I definitely agree that it's poor behavior.

No doubt about that. Certainly no argument from me.
I am merely stating that it works. And it is about morals... just because something works doesn't mean that you should.

Kentonio · Sep 30, 2020

Arc F1 said:
Trump didn't cause this virus. The economy was doing really good until this.

The economy might have looked healthy but there were huge red warning signs ahead, and economists were predicting serious problems just around the corner. Trump was pushing too many buttons at once to make the economy boom and the risk of that is that it creates an ensuing bust.

If anything the virus should have been a godsend for him, it would have provided the perfect excuse for any financial crash and given him a once in a lifetime opportunity to look truly presidential. It was Trump’s 9/11 in other words. Now look at Bush’s approval a month after 9/11 and then look at Trump’s a month after Covid arrives. He had his golden ticket to re-election and he squandered it.

Arc F1 · Sep 30, 2020

wing2000 said:
Until Americans feel safe and confident in their leadership's handling of COVID, no amount of "opening" will recover the economy.

Not everyone looks to the government for help with everything.

Arc F1 · Sep 30, 2020

MIDutch said:
What most leaders around the world have done. Lead. Lead by example if nothing else.
Because Republicans are telling everyone to ignore them (hint: see trump campaign rallies).

It's not that hard to figure out.

What country has had the best outcome and how did they handle it?

FireDragon76 · Sep 30, 2020

Albion said:
I agree, and he does have a way of not getting to the most important points. For example, when pressed on why he is concerned about vote fraud, he several times referred to the handful of ballots found in a wastebasket recently, all of them with votes cast for Trump. But he never got to the literal buying of hundreds of votes by an organization set up for that purpose by a Minnesota Congresswoman, or the issue of 'Vote Harvesting' by which just anyone can just take a ballot to some invalid, or whatever, get them to fill it out (as instructed?) and then return these and dozens more to the election office -- after election day has passed -- and they're valid. But no, Trump just reiterated some of the less sensational fraud.

"Ballot harvesting", collecting and delivering completed, sealed ballots from people that are disabled and/or unable to come to the polls, is not necessarily illegal in all states, and it doesn't amount to voter fraud.

Pommer · Sep 30, 2020

Arc F1 said:
Not everyone looks to the government for help with everything.

Managing a pandemic response is one of the things that I expect from my government(s), yes.

jisaiah6113 · Sep 30, 2020

Donald Trump didn't cause the virus. The Chinese Communist party, with an assist from American deep state operatives, manufactured the Wuhan virus in a laboratory, and then deliberately spread it across the world to take down POTUS and America.

The most vicious viral disease in over 100 years, hitting the United States in an election year concurrent with a politically charged impeachment attempt against the President. Anyone who thinks this year was an accident is HIGHLY deceived.

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