Colossians 2:16-17; Romans 14:5-8; Acts 15 -> License not to keep the Sabbath?

LoveGodsWord

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@LoveGodsWord I don't have time to post an elaborate answer to post #19 right now (life getting in the way), but in the meantime I challenge you (once again), to post an answer, but this time to a different question: Are Christians being licensed not to keep the Sabbath according to Colossians 2:16-17, Romans 14:5-8 and Acts 15?. Just set up an account on Biblical Hermenutics StackExchange (it will take just a few seconds) and post an answer there. I hope to be back to you and post a proper answer to post #19 as is due in a few days.

Now dear TS, why do you want me running all over the web to answer your OP when I have already answered it here in this forum? Your welcome to invite your buddies here if you like I will be happy to share God's Word with them if you cannot address the scriptures and posts shared with you here. I am also happy to discuss this topic with anyone else as my faith is in God and his Word and he strengthens me through his Spirit. These are God's Words not mine. I am only a messenger. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it dear friend.
 
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TruthSeek3r

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Now dear TS, why do you want me running all over the web to answer your OP when I have already answered it here in this forum? Your welcome to invite your buddies here if you like I will be happy to share God's Word with them if you cannot address the scriptures and posts shared with you here. I am also happy to discuss this topic with anyone else as my faith is in God and his Word and he strengthens me through his Spirit. These are God's Words not mine. I am only a messenger. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it dear friend.

They are not "my buddies". It's a question-answer site with an impartial community and a lot of peer review (the perfect environment to detect/avoid logical fallacies and biases in answers). But well, if you are afraid, that's already very telling ...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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They are not "my buddies". It's a question-answer site with an impartial community and a lot of peer review (the perfect environment to detect/avoid logical fallacies and biases in answers). But well, if you are afraid, that's already very telling ...

Sorry dear friend but I am not jumping all around the world wide web just because your not able to address the content and the scriptures in the posts shared with you here in your own OP's. I have enough threads opened here for the time being to keep busy. If you are not able to address my posts to you or the scriptures provided that disagree with you, then perhaps it's maybe God who is wanting to give you a blessing and it is time to prayerfully consider what you believe and seek God's guidance. My prayer is that you will receive God's Word and be blessed. Thanks for the discussion and may God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
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Soyeong

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The Bible does not even use the subcategories of moral and ceremonial law. The existence of the subcategory of moral law would mean that there laws that are moral to disobey, but there are no examples in the Bible of this. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws.

People are free to create whatever subcategories of law that they want, but they should not insert their subcategories back into the Bible in order order to create their own doctrines out of them when the author of the Bible never used those subcategories. For example, I could create subcategories based in which part of the body is most commonly used to follow or transgress it, such as with placing the law against theft into the subcategory of hand and so forth, but that would not establish that any of the authors of the Bible ever categorized God's laws in that manner, so any doctrine that I created based off of my categories would not be in accordance with what any of the authors of the Bible were trying to communicate. So whether or someone considers the Sabbath to be 100% ceremonial is completely irrelevant to anything said in the Bible.

Can you even give me a list all of the laws that Paul considered to be ceremonial with verse citations?
 
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TruthSeek3r

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Sorry dear friend but I am not jumping all around the world wide web just because your not able to address the content and the scriptures in the posts shared with you here in your own OP's. I have enough threads opened here for the time being to keep busy. If you are not able to address my posts to you or the scriptures provided that disagree with you, then perhaps it's maybe God who is wanting to give you a blessing and it is time to prayerfully consider what you believe and seek God's guidance. My prayer is that you will receive God's Word and be blessed. Thanks for the discussion and may God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

C'mon ... stop being dramatic, you are just one click away from the site, and a few clicks and keystrokes away from creating an account, and then it's just a matter of copy-pasting your answers and tweaking the text a little bit. It will only take you a few minutes. And you can use bookmarks to keep the site at hand in your browser (which literally takes 0 effort to accomplish).

And what will you gain by doing so? That your answer will be peer-reviewed by a community with users with very high reputation.

If you are utterly convinced of the correctness of your arguments, you should have nothing to fear, and your answer will be praised by the community and receive many upvotes. And you will be able to link your canonical answer whenever someone shows up asking the same question again and you will have demonstrable evidence of how your answer is well received by a reputable biblical hermeneutic community.

So again, I invite you to post an answer to the following question: Are Christians being licensed not to keep the Sabbath according to Colossians 2:16-17, Romans 14:5-8 and Acts 15?

Looking forward to your answer on Biblical Hermeneutics StackExchange.
 
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TruthSeek3r

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The Bible does not even use the subcategories of moral and ceremonial law. The existence of the subcategory of moral law would mean that there laws that are moral to disobey, but there are no examples in the Bible of this. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws.

People are free to create whatever subcategories of law that they want, but they should not insert their subcategories back into the Bible in order order to create their own doctrines out of them when the author of the Bible never used those subcategories. For example, I could create subcategories based in which part of the body is most commonly used to follow or transgress it, such as with placing the law against theft into the subcategory of hand and so forth, but that would not establish that any of the authors of the Bible ever categorized God's laws in that manner, so any doctrine that I created based off of my categories would not be in accordance with what any of the authors of the Bible were trying to communicate. So whether or someone considers the Sabbath to be 100% ceremonial is completely irrelevant to anything said in the Bible.

Can you even give me a list all of the laws that Paul considered to be ceremonial with verse citations?

That was in response to @eleos1954 (post #6) who claims there to be a ceremonial law and a moral law, where the former is allegedly abolished and the latter still in application for Christians today. You can see similar claims made by @LoveGodsWord in posts #9 and #10 where he talks about "ceremonial sabbaths" as if distinct from the "moral sabbath" of the 4th commandment.

In fact, there is a whole belief in a tripartite division of the law into moral, ceremonial and civil held by several religious groups. Check out the following links for reference:
By the way, I just posted a related question on that same site. If you happen to know the answer, please feel super welcomed to join the community and post an answer:

Does the 4th commandment belong to the Moral Law or the Ceremonial Law?
 
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That was in response to @eleos1954 (post #6) who claims there to be a ceremonial law and a moral law, where the former is allegedly abolished and the latter still in application for Christians today. You can see similar claims made by @LoveGodsWord in posts #9 and #10 where he talks about "ceremonial sabbaths" as if distinct from the "moral sabbath" of the 4th commandment.

In fact, there is a whole belief in a tripartite division of the law into moral, ceremonial and civil held by several religious groups. Check out the following links for reference:
  • What is the biblical support for the moral-civil-ceremonial distinction of Old Testament laws?
  • What is the origin of the moral-civil-ceremonial distinction of the Old Testament law?
  • How many laws from Old Testament are still valid in New Testament?
By the way, I just posted a related question on that same site. If you happen to know the answer, please feel super welcomed to join the community and post an answer:

Does the 4th commandment belong to the Moral Law or the Ceremonial Law?

God's 4th commandment under the new covenant is not a ceremonial law but a moral law as it is our moral duty of love to God to remember the Sabbath day to keep it as a holy day of rest. The first four commandments are our duty of love to God and the second six our duty of love to our fellow man *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10.

Under the old covenant and the Mosaic shadow laws for remission of sins under the Levitical Priesthood and the Sanctuary service, burnt offerings and sin offerings were a daily occurrence and more so on the sabbath days. For example there was sin offerings and burnt offerings every morning and evening (Exodus 29:38-42; Numbers 28:2); each Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10) the beginning of each month (Numbers 28:11) at Passover (Numbers 28:19); with the new grain/firstfruits offering at the Feast of Weeks (Numbers 28:27); at the Feast of Trumpets/Rosh Hashanah (Numbers 29:1)and at the new moon (Numbers 29:6). These are all ceremonial laws for remission of sin pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for mankind in the new covenant. Under the old covenant these "shadow laws" were linked to every day of the week, the annual feast days, new moons and also the sabbath days. Obviously these ceased in the new covenant as they were "shadows of things to come" *Colossians 2:17 pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for mankind under the new covenant promise of Grace.

Unlike the Mosaic "shadow laws" for remission of sins under the old covenant none of God's 10 commandments are ceremonial laws. They are all moral laws and our moral duty of love to God and man. God's 4th commandment sabbath commandment also a "memorial" of creation (Remember the Sabbath day... Exodus 20:8-11) and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth.

Now unlike the Mosiac ceremonial "shadow laws" for remission of sin (sin offerings and animal sacrifices for sin) we need to keep in mind that it is impossible for God's 4th commandment to be a ceremonial law as it points backward to the finished work of creation "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy" Exodus 20:8 not forward to something to come. The ceremonial laws for remission of sin from the Mosiac book of the law were only given "after" the fall of mankind when man sinned as part of God's plan of salvation from sin. The Sabbath however was made for mankind "before"sin existed and before any plan of salvation was given or needed.

The Sabbath commandment is a moral law and a part of our duty of love to God *John 14:15. It is the day that God has blessed and made a Holy day of rest for his people to remember God as the creator of heave and earth and a celebration of God as the creator of heave and earth.

All of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment Sabbath are moral laws and our duty of love to God and our fellow man.

Let's look at what the scriptures teach on this subject further....

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTOUESNESS.< tsedeq Right Doing - MORAL>

HEBREW for Righteousness is צדק; tsedeq means; the right natural, moral or legal; also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness)].

RIGHTEOUSNESS is defined as the standard of MORAL RIGHT in the Hebrew which God’s Word defines as ALL GOD’S COMMANDMENTS. This of course includes God’s 4th commandment which is one of God’s 10 commandments written with the finger of God.

The opposite of righteousness is unrighteousness as shown in this scripture here…

1 JOHN 5:17-18 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: and there is a sin not to death.
[18], WE KNOW THAT WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

UNRIGHTEOUSNESS HEBREW (H5766) עול עול עולה עולה עלה ;‛evel ‛âvel ‛avlâh ‛ôlâh ‛ôlâh From H5765; moral evil: - iniquity, perverseness, unjust (-ly), unrighteousness (-ly), wicked (-ness).

UNRIGHTEOSNESS GREEK (G93) ἀδικία; adikia (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of charater, life or act): - iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (ἀδικία Moral wrongfulness) IS SIN which is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments. UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is the opposite of RIGHTEOUSNESS and ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is SIN *1 JOHN 5:17 and SIN is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 then RIGHTEOUSNESS is OBEDIENCE to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) as is why it is written;

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE *RIGHTOUESNESS.<Moral Right Doing>

ROMANS 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good,G5544 no, not one.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G5544
χρηστότης; chrēstotēs From G5543; usefulness, that is, moral excellence (in character or demeanor): - gentleness, good (-ness), kindness.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:33 Be not deceived: Evil companionships corrupt good morals.G2239

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G2239
ἦθος; ēthos A strengthened form of G1485; usage, that is, (plural) moral habits: - manners

……………..

Christian bible dictionary definitions agree with the Hebrew and Greek scriptures shown above...

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1828
MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]
1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness.
Keep at the least within the compass of moral actions, which have in them vice or virtue.
Mankind is broken loose from moral bands.
2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.
3. Supported by the evidence of reason or probability; founded on experience of the ordinary course of things; as moral certainty, distinguished from physical or mathematical certainty or demonstration.
Physical and mathematical certainty may be stiled infallible, and moral certainty may be properly stiled indubitable.
Things of a moral nature may be proved by moral arguments.
4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.
5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life.

................

CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]
1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.
2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.
[In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

CEREMONIAL, n.
1. Outward form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social intercourse, or in the courts of princes.
2. The order for rites and forms in the Romish church, or the book containing the rules prescribed to be observed on solemn occasions.

................

So according to the God's Word (not mine) all of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment are Moral laws not ceremonial laws under the new covenant.

Hope this helps.
 
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TruthSeek3r

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God's 4th commandment under the new covenant is not a ceremonial law but a moral law as it is our moral duty of love to God to remember the Sabbath day to keep it as a holy day of rest. The first four commandments are our duty of love to God and the second six our duty of love to our fellow man *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10.

Under the old covenant and the Mosaic shadow laws for remission of sins under the Levitical Priesthood and the Sanctuary service, burnt offerings and sin offerings were a daily occurrence and more so on the sabbath days. For example there was sin offerings and burnt offerings every morning and evening (Exodus 29:38-42; Numbers 28:2); each Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10) the beginning of each month (Numbers 28:11) at Passover (Numbers 28:19); with the new grain/firstfruits offering at the Feast of Weeks (Numbers 28:27); at the Feast of Trumpets/Rosh Hashanah (Numbers 29:1)and at the new moon (Numbers 29:6). These are all ceremonial laws for remission of sin pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for mankind in the new covenant. Under the old covenant these "shadow laws" were linked to every day of the week, the annual feast days, new moons and also the sabbath days. Obviously these ceased in the new covenant as they were "shadows of things to come" *Colossians 2:17 pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for mankind under the new covenant promise of Grace.

Unlike the Mosaic "shadow laws" for remission of sins under the old covenant none of God's 10 commandments are ceremonial laws. They are all moral laws and our moral duty of love to God and man. God's 4th commandment sabbath commandment also a "memorial" of creation (Remember the Sabbath day... Exodus 20:8-11) and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth.

Now unlike the Mosiac ceremonial "shadow laws" for remission of sin (sin offerings and animal sacrifices for sin) we need to keep in mind that it is impossible for God's 4th commandment to be a ceremonial law as it points backward to the finished work of creation "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy" Exodus 20:8 not forward to something to come. The ceremonial laws for remission of sin from the Mosiac book of the law were only given "after" the fall of mankind when man sinned as part of God's plan of salvation from sin. The Sabbath however was made for mankind "before"sin existed and before any plan of salvation was given or needed.

The Sabbath commandment is a moral law and a part of our duty of love to God *John 14:15. It is the day that God has blessed and made a Holy day of rest for his people to remember God as the creator of heave and earth and a celebration of God as the creator of heave and earth.

All of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment Sabbath are moral laws and our duty of love to God and our fellow man.

Let's look at what the scriptures teach on this subject further....

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTOUESNESS.< tsedeq Right Doing - MORAL>

HEBREW for Righteousness is צדק; tsedeq means; the right natural, moral or legal; also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness)].

RIGHTEOUSNESS is defined as the standard of MORAL RIGHT in the Hebrew which God’s Word defines as ALL GOD’S COMMANDMENTS. This of course includes God’s 4th commandment which is one of God’s 10 commandments written with the finger of God.

The opposite of righteousness is unrighteousness as shown in this scripture here…

1 JOHN 5:17-18 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: and there is a sin not to death.
[18], WE KNOW THAT WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

UNRIGHTEOUSNESS HEBREW (H5766) עול עול עולה עולה עלה ;‛evel ‛âvel ‛avlâh ‛ôlâh ‛ôlâh From H5765; moral evil: - iniquity, perverseness, unjust (-ly), unrighteousness (-ly), wicked (-ness).

UNRIGHTEOSNESS GREEK (G93) ἀδικία; adikia (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of charater, life or act): - iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (ἀδικία Moral wrongfulness) IS SIN which is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments. UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is the opposite of RIGHTEOUSNESS and ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is SIN *1 JOHN 5:17 and SIN is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 then RIGHTEOUSNESS is OBEDIENCE to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) as is why it is written;

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE *RIGHTOUESNESS.<Moral Right Doing>

ROMANS 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good,G5544 no, not one.

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G5544
χρηστότης; chrēstotēs From G5543; usefulness, that is, moral excellence (in character or demeanor): - gentleness, good (-ness), kindness.

1 CORINTHIANS 15:33 Be not deceived: Evil companionships corrupt good morals.G2239

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G2239
ἦθος; ēthos A strengthened form of G1485; usage, that is, (plural) moral habits: - manners

……………..

Christian bible dictionary definitions agree with the Hebrew and Greek scriptures shown above...

Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1828
MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]
1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness.
Keep at the least within the compass of moral actions, which have in them vice or virtue.
Mankind is broken loose from moral bands.
2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.
3. Supported by the evidence of reason or probability; founded on experience of the ordinary course of things; as moral certainty, distinguished from physical or mathematical certainty or demonstration.
Physical and mathematical certainty may be stiled infallible, and moral certainty may be properly stiled indubitable.
Things of a moral nature may be proved by moral arguments.
4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.
5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life.

................

CEREMONIAL, a. [See Ceremony.]
1. Relating to ceremony, or external rite; ritual; according to the forms of established rites; as ceremonial exactness. It is particularly applied to the forms and rites of the Jewish religion; as the ceremonial law or worship, as distinguished from the moral and judicial law.
2. Formal; observant of old forms; exact; precise in manners.
[In this sense, ceremonious is now used.]

CEREMONIAL, n.
1. Outward form; external rite, or established forms or rites, including all the forms prescribed; a system of rules and ceremonies, enjoined by law or established by custom, whether in religious worship, in social intercourse, or in the courts of princes.
2. The order for rites and forms in the Romish church, or the book containing the rules prescribed to be observed on solemn occasions.

................

So according to the God's Word (not mine) all of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment are Moral laws not ceremonial laws under the new covenant.

Hope this helps.

I invite you to let your answer be peer reviewed by posting it on here: What is an overview of Christian viewpoints on the classification of the 4th commandment in the tripartite division of the Old Testament Law?
 
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BobRyan

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Is Paul giving Christians license to omit Sabbath observance in Colossians 2:16-17 and Romans 14:5-8? Is this corroborated by Acts 15?

1. None of those texts say the TEN commandments are "downsized to nine"
2. Rom 14 as you quoted does not mention Sabbath at all.
3. Col 2 is not condemning eating, or drinking or Sabbath keeping
4. Paul says that the unit of TEN - where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - is still in full force for Christians in Eph 6:1-2
 
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TruthSeek3r

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ok

But I don't see that as "peer review" in the classical sense

Of course I will not ask him to submit a paper to a biblical hermeneutic journal, that would be asking too much. Instead, a much more reasonable and accessible option is to post answers in Christianity StackExchange or Biblical Hermeneutics StackExchange, and I already provided several relevant questions in which he can do so. These sites are great because in both you can find a community of users and moderators with very high reputation. Take a look: users and moderators from Christianity.SE; users and moderators from Hermeneutics.SE. Also take a look at some of the most upvoted questions from both sites: link, link.

You are welcomed to post an answer to any of the following questions (related to this thread's topic):
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Of course I will not ask him to submit a paper to a biblical hermeneutic journal, that would be asking too much. Instead, a much more reasonable and accessible option is to post answers in Christianity StackExchange or Biblical Hermeneutics StackExchange, and I already provided several relevant questions in which he can do so. These sites are great because in both you can find a community of users and moderators with very high reputation. Take a look: users and moderators from Christianity.SE; users and moderators from Hermeneutics.SE. Also take a look at some of the most upvoted questions from both sites: link, link.

You are welcomed to post an answer to any of the following questions (related to this thread's topic):
  • Are Christians being licensed not to keep the Sabbath according to Colossians 2:16-17, Romans 14:5-8 and Acts 15?
  • What scriptural evidence do Seventh-day Adventists use to defend that evangelized Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath?
  • What is an overview of Christian viewpoints on the classification of the 4th commandment in the tripartite division of the Old Testament Law?
  • Colossians 2:16 speaks of holy days, festivals or weekly sabbaths?
  • Is there any historical evidence of Sabbath keeping by Gentiles during the first centuries of Christianity?
  • Is Jesus implying that He expects his disciples to be Sabbath-keepers in Matthew 24:20?

Now dear friend, as posted to you earlier, why do you want me running all over the web to answer your OP when I have already answered it here in this forum? Your welcome to invite your buddies here if you like I will be happy to share God's Word with them if you cannot address the scriptures and posts shared with you here. I am also happy to discuss this topic with anyone else as my faith is in God and his Word and he strengthens me through his Spirit. These are God's Words not mine. I am only a messenger. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. May I ask you if JESUS came to you sharing his Word would you go and ask him to go to another website and post his answers to you there before you would consider what he says after you asked questions of him personally? What do you think JESUS would do? Yet you have been given God's Word here not mine and they answer your questions much better then the answers you have been provided in the links to the other website you have provided. Something to pray about.
 
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TruthSeek3r

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Now dear friend, as posted to you earlier, why do you want me running all over the web to answer your OP when I have already answered it here in this forum? Your welcome to invite your buddies here if you like I will be happy to share God's Word with them if you cannot address the scriptures and posts shared with you here. I am also happy to discuss this topic with anyone else as my faith is in God and his Word and he strengthens me through his Spirit. These are God's Words not mine. I am only a messenger. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. May I ask you if JESUS came to you sharing his Word would you go and ask him to go to another website and post his answers to you there before you would consider what he says after you asked questions of him personally? What do you think JESUS would do? Yet you have been given God's Word here not mine and they answer your questions much better then the answers you have been provided in the links to the other website you have provided. Something to pray about.

Again, I already explained to you in #22 that they are not "my buddies" and in #25 the benefits of peer-review. And it will only take you a few minutes to copy-paste your answers there. Why are you so afraid of letting your answers be scrutinized in a more serious and impartial setting?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Again, I already explained to you in #22 that they are not "my buddies" and in #25 the benefits of peer-review. And it will only take you a few minutes to copy-paste your answers there. Why are you so afraid of letting your answers be scrutinized in a more serious and impartial setting?
I see you did not answer anything in my past post to you. Do you you think JESUS needed peer review when he was on earth before anyone should believe him? What about the Apostles who were not scholars but humble fisherman?
 
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TruthSeek3r

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I see you did not answer anything in my past post to you. Do you you think JESUS needed peer review when he was on earth before anyone should believe him? What about the Apostles who were humble fisherman?

I can smell fear ...
 
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I can smell fear ...
You do not need to be fearful dear friend. Those who believe and follow God's Word receive God's blessing. We should only be fearful if we reject Gods Word when he gives us a knowledge of his truth in order to continue in known unrepentant sin as it is written in Hebrews 10:26-31
 
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TruthSeek3r

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You do not need to be fearful dear friend. Those who believe and follow God's Word receive God's blessing. We should only be fearful if we reject Gods Word when he gives us a knowledge of his truth and we reject it in order to continue in known unrepentant sin as it is written in Hebrews 10:26-31

No one is rejecting God's word, quite the contrary, you are encouraged to keep sharing it by posting answers to any of the following questions, and by doing so you will be able to reach a broader audience:
Looking forward to your answers.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No one is rejecting God's word, quite the contrary, you are encouraged to keep sharing it by posting answers to any of the following questions, and by doing so you will be able to reach a broader audience:
  • Are Christians being licensed not to keep the Sabbath according to Colossians 2:16-17, Romans 14:5-8 and Acts 15?
  • What scriptural evidence do Seventh-day Adventists use to defend that evangelized Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath?
  • What is an overview of Christian viewpoints on the classification of the 4th commandment in the tripartite division of the Old Testament Law?
  • Colossians 2:16 speaks of holy days, festivals or weekly sabbaths?
  • Is there any historical evidence of Sabbath keeping by Gentiles during the first centuries of Christianity?
  • Is Jesus implying that He expects his disciples to be Sabbath-keepers in Matthew 24:20?
Looking forward to your answers.

I did not say you were rejecting God's Word dear friend as I do not judge you. That is between you and God as it is the Word of God we accept or reject that is our judge come judgement day according to the scriptures in *Matthew 12:47-48. Everything you have posted here has been addressed ten fold through the scriptures already. What is it that has not already been addressed from your website questions that has not already been addressed through scripture that you disagree with here? No one ever finds the truth of God's Word by not seeking it from God according to the scriptures. In fact it was the scholars of the day that called JESUS of the devil and his disciples a sect and all those who followed him. Something to pray about.
 
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eleos1954

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That was in response to @eleos1954 (post #6) who claims there to be a ceremonial law and a moral law, where the former is allegedly abolished and the latter still in application for Christians today. You can see similar claims made by @LoveGodsWord in posts #9 and #10 where he talks about "ceremonial sabbaths" as if distinct from the "moral sabbath" of the 4th commandment.

In fact, there is a whole belief in a tripartite division of the law into moral, ceremonial and civil held by several religious groups. Check out the following links for reference:
By the way, I just posted a related question on that same site. If you happen to know the answer, please feel super welcomed to join the community and post an answer:

Does the 4th commandment belong to the Moral Law or the Ceremonial Law?

To me it seems to be a very logical (and biblical) reasoning that ... as we know His word states ... the hand writing of ordinances were nailed to the cross.

Colossians 2:14
King James Bible
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Also it is written without the law we would not know what sin is .... that has to be the 10 commandments ... and of which all christian faiths accept as the basic standard of what sin is .... the only one of the 10 that ever comes into question is the 4th - the 7th day Sabbath.

we do know the ceremonial laws that were connected with the sanctuary system ... did ... in fact go away. It was faulty (no redemption in the system) ... and done away with.

Are the 10 commandments ever referred to as "handwriting or ordinances" anywhere else in His Word? Not that I find.

So the "mosaic law" was given to Moses on Mt Sanai by the Lord ... we read this in His Word. It is also known that the clergy of the time added their own "ideas" decrees to what was originally written down by Moses ( ie changed what was originally given by God). And Jesus brought this fact up to them several times. Also that they were being
hypocrites (saying one thing and doing another)

Matthew 15:7-9
You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

The purpose of the earthly sanctuary was pointing to Jesus the Messiah to come.

When one studies the sanctuary system in depth one sees the pattern of salvation within it. The sanctuary system was symbolic of how the plan of salvation would be fulfilled that being through Christ the Messiah to come ... and Him ministering from the REAL sanctuary in heaven.

Exodus 25:8-9 “And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.”

ie ... the blood of bulls and goats have no redeeming qualities .... Jesus is our high priest .... etc. He was the final sacrifice for all ... for all time.

His Word also states the "mosaic law" was to be placed beside the ark and to be used as a witness against them.

So what laws were nailed to the cross? All of them. Christ fulfilled everything necessary to provide the way .... through Him ... to salvation. EVERYTHING.

Now does that mean the law is abolished? No, the law stands ... without it we would not know what sin is. The ceremonial laws nor that system not needed because Christ being the final sacrifice for all ... once for all time happened on calvary.

What about the 10? He fulfilled those as well and because He did we will not be condemned by them. They are indeed in still in effect and everlasting ... they are holy and just. We will be judged by them ... however ... we have been justified by Christ ... that is ... He paid our sin debt. ie the wages of sin is death.

Jesus fulfilled ALL law and ALL covenants, man within himself is incapable of doing so.

Does that give us a "free license" to sin? No .... we are to repent (turn from it).

When we receive Christ as our Lord and Savior He then works in the believer helping them to recognize their sin and to help them to overcome it. This is called sanctification ... and sanctification by the Holy Spirit continues throughout our entire earthly life. We will mess up here and there.

So ... we are justified by the faith of Jesus (our debt is paid) and His cleansing process (sanctification) begins and continues throughout our life and we are to be receptive to it and joyful about it.

How does one know they have the Holy Spirit working in them? One's life should be trending more towards being transformed into His image. What is His image?

Keeping His commandments, through faith and love, giving Him all the glory for what He did for us and for what He is doing within us. We will mess up here in there ... but the promise is HE will finish HIS work in us.

Philippians 1:6

New Living Translation
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.

Following is my understanding about the salvation process .... it seems to me often people get confused between justification and sanctification so thought I would include it. Also people say one is being legalistic if one says we are to keep the law .... not so ... when we are able to keep the law (overcome sin) we praise the Lord for helping us to do so. And .... we do ... indeed ... die daily.

ok ... now back to the 7th day Sabbath ... I do believe the 10 are inseparable .... if I am to believe all the rest of the 10 are in effect (and I do) then within myself it is totally illogical to sever the 4th out of them ... that is ... to separate out any of them.

Salvation is: Justification + Sanctification = Glorification

God’s plan for our salvation has three parts in this order: Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification.


Justification:

Each one of us have broken God’s Law. This is sin. The wages of sin is (eternal) death (cease to exist forever). This price is more than we can ever repay–it is impossible. Because of God the father’s unconditional love for the us, he gave his only begotten Son Jesus to pay for our debt of eternal death on the cross. This one time event was done by Jesus. Only Jesus is worthy to pay the price for each one of us because he never sinned. He has not broken God’s Law. Jesus (in the form of a man) died a physical death, giving His life willingly and was raised back to life; thus conquering eternal death.

sanctification.

It’s the reciprocation of our love toward God. We are sanctified with the help of the Holy Spirit (Comforter) that Jesus gives us. Sanctification means to set a part or to make holy. His Holy Spirit helps us in this process to become more like Christ. This is not a one time event; it’s a life long process (we stumble here and there). The process of sanctifying and purifying us (the works that Jesus does in the believer, and is not of ourselves) ... it is HIM working in us and through us. We are separated from the world. We are in the physical world but not of the world spiritually. Our mind (thinking) changes over time and therefore our actions also change. Our faith increases more and more as He faithfully works in us. Hebrews 12:2

The third stage in the plan of salvation is our glorification.

We won’t be glorified until after Jesus returns. John writes of this in his first letter when he states that “when he shall appear we shall be like him (1 John 3:2). Paul refers to this stage frequently. For example: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality (1 Corinthians 15:53). He also refers to a time when “we shall all be changed in a moment in in a twinkling of an eye at the last trump” (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). Paul speaks further of the doctrine of glorification when he says in Romans 8:18, “For the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” We receive glorified spiritual bodies. Receiving eternal life and being with Him forevermore. Those saved (justification + sanctification) will be glorified when Christ returns at the first resurrection.

And because of His grace (favor) if we remain in Him He will accomplish His work

Philippians 1:6

New Living Translation
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.

Apologize for being so long ... ;o)

May the Lord bless all as we continue in Him. Amen
 
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BobRyan

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Of course I will not ask him to submit a paper to a biblical hermeneutic journal, that would be asking too much. Instead, a much more reasonable and accessible option is to post answers in Christianity StackExchange

ok...

did that.

You are welcomed to post an answer to any of the following questions (related to this thread's topic):

I thought this was that topic - why not address it here?.


I already addressed that in the link you gave -- are you asking that I post it here as well?

1. The Baptist Confession of Faith - Section 19 - affirms that all TEN of the TEN Commandments still apply to Christians... this is not "just SDAs" - so also is the case with many other Sabbath keeping groups that post on this area of the board.

2. The Westminster Confession of Faith - Section 19 - affirms that all TEN of the TEN Commandments still apply to Christians... this is not "just SDAs" - so also is the case with many other Sabbath keeping groups that post on this area of the board.

3. you may debate with the Baptist and Westminster confessions as to whether the TEN can be "edited" to repoint the Sabbath from "the seventh day" Ex 20:10 to week-day-1 but they still make the case that all TEN are valid.

No wonder that for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before God to worship" Is 66:23 - in the New Earth.

No wonder "every Sabbath" we see Gospel preaching to Jews AND Gentiles in Acts 18:4

No wonder "gentiles" ask for MORE Gospel preaching to be given them "on the next Sabbath" as they plan for another gospel preaching event in Acts 13

No wonder Is 56:6-8 singles out gentiles for a special blessing for choosing not to profane the Bible Sabbath.



Col 2 does not condemn "eating" or "drinking" or "Sabbath" -- rather it argues for the pre-cross standard of Matthew 7 "do not judge".


For those that consider the Bible to be a valid historic document - then we have gentiles in "Sabbath after Sabbath" services in Acts 13, Acts 17 and then in Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath".

But no "every week-day-1" worship services for gospel preaching.. it is never mentioned in the Bible.


yes.
 
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