Grapes in the Early Spring

Bible Highlighter · Sep 29, 2020

HARK! said:
Vitamin C has low toxicity and is not believed to cause serious adverse effects at high intakes [8]. The most common complaints are diarrhea, nausea, abdominal cramps, and other gastrointestinal disturbances due to the osmotic effect of unabsorbed vitamin C in the gastrointestinal tract [4,8].

Office of Dietary Supplements - Vitamin C

But it is not a toxin like alcohol. You are reaching. Alcohol effects your immune system and it has to fight off the bad effects. It is like a mild poison. It seeks to destroy you. Even Scripture says it bites like a serpent.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 29, 2020

Alcohol is basically flavored poison. Why do think bartenders say choose your poison? That’s because it is poison.

HARK! · Sep 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
But it is not a toxin like alcohol.

No two toxins are completely alike; but toxins are still toxins.

Der Alte · Sep 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Here are...
21 Warnings That Speak Against The Alcoholic Beverage Itself.
(That is not specifically or exclusively talking about drunkenness)
Passages For the Old Testament Saint:
1) Deuteronomy 29:5-6
- God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
(The reason for this action was taken so as to show how they knew God).

Little bit of deception going on here this quote omits the first part of the verse. Apparently bread is in the same category as wine.

Deu 29:6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God.

Now here are the verses which you/your source have ignored.

1 Chronicles 27:27
27 And over the vineyards was Shimei the Ramathite: over the increase of the vineyards for the wine cellars was Zabdi the Shiphmite:
2 Chronicles 2:10
10 And, behold, I will give to thy servants, the hewers that cut timber, twenty thousand measures of beaten wheat, and twenty thousand measures of barley, and twenty thousand baths of wine, and twenty thousand baths of oil.
2 Chronicles 11:11
11 And he fortified the strong holds, and put captains in them, and store of victual, and of oil and wine.
Job 1:13
13 And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
Psalms 104:15
15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.
Proverbs 3:10
10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.
Proverbs 9:5
5 Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.
Proverbs 31:6
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Ecclesiastes 9:7
7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Ecclesiastes 10:19
19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
Song of Solomon 5:1
1 I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.
Isaiah 22:13
13 And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.
Isaiah 55:1
1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
Jeremiah 13:12
12 Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?
Jeremiah 31:12
12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.
Jeremiah 40:10
10 As for me, behold, I will dwell at Mizpah to serve the Chaldeans, which will come unto us: but ye, gather ye wine, and summer fruits, and oil, and put them in your vessels, and dwell in your cities that ye have taken.
Jeremiah 40:12
12 Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven, and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah, unto Mizpah, and gathered wine and summer fruits very much.
Daniel 1:5
5 And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king.
Hosea 2:22
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
Joel 2:19
19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
Joel 2:24
24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
Joel 3:18
18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim.
Amos 9:13
13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
Zechariah 9:17
17 For how great is his goodness, and how great is his beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids

Der Alte · Sep 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
...There are many different methods of preserving grapes and grape juice in ancient times. You just don’t like that truth because you are biased towards alcohol.

You have made this claim more than once. I have asked you more than once for credible, verifiable, historical evidence that there were, "many different methods of preserving grapes and grape juice in ancient times." If there were many such methods there should be some records somewhere instead of the same empty claims over and over and over.
I just did a quick on line search and saw a few articles mentioning "ancient ways of preserving food" including grapes/grape juice. But what I did not see was any credible, verifiable, historical evidence. This would consist of something written at or near the times in question by a participant or direct observer.
Anybody can sit down at a keyboard and type some kind of directions but without evidence it is nothing but someone's unsupported opinion.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 29, 2020

Der Alte said:
Little bit of deception going on here this quote omits the first part of the verse. Apparently bread is in the same category as wine.

Deu 29:6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God.
Now here are the verses which you/your source have ignored.

1 Chronicles 27:27
27 And over the vineyards was Shimei the Ramathite: over the increase of the vineyards for the wine cellars was Zabdi the Shiphmite:
2 Chronicles 2:10
10 And, behold, I will give to thy servants, the hewers that cut timber, twenty thousand measures of beaten wheat, and twenty thousand measures of barley, and twenty thousand baths of wine, and twenty thousand baths of oil.
2 Chronicles 11:11
11 And he fortified the strong holds, and put captains in them, and store of victual, and of oil and wine.
Job 1:13
13 And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
Psalms 104:15
15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.
Proverbs 3:10
10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.
Proverbs 9:5
5 Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.
Proverbs 31:6
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Ecclesiastes 9:7
7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Ecclesiastes 10:19
19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
Song of Solomon 5:1
1 I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.
Isaiah 22:13
13 And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.
Isaiah 55:1
1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
Jeremiah 13:12
12 Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?
Jeremiah 31:12
12 Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.
Jeremiah 40:10
10 As for me, behold, I will dwell at Mizpah to serve the Chaldeans, which will come unto us: but ye, gather ye wine, and summer fruits, and oil, and put them in your vessels, and dwell in your cities that ye have taken.
Jeremiah 40:12
12 Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven, and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah, unto Mizpah, and gathered wine and summer fruits very much.
Daniel 1:5
5 And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king.
Hosea 2:22
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
Joel 2:19
19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
Joel 2:24
24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
Joel 3:18
18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim.
Amos 9:13
13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
Zechariah 9:17
17 For how great is his goodness, and how great is his beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids

Right, the Israelite would dilute fermented wine by several parts of water. The verses I shown are a condemnation of fully fermented undiluted wine. For how do you harmonize the verses that condemn even the usage of wine?

Bible Highlighter · Sep 29, 2020

Der Alte said:
You have made this claim more than once. I have asked you more than once for credible, verifiable, historical evidence that there were, "many different methods of preserving grapes and grape juice in ancient times." If there were many such methods there should be some records somewhere instead of the same empty claims over and over and over.
I just did a quick on line search and saw a few articles mentioning "ancient ways of preserving food" including grapes/grape juice. But what I did not see was any credible, verifiable, historical evidence. This would consist of something written at or near the times in question by a participant or direct observer.
Anybody can sit down at a keyboard and type some kind of directions but without evidence it is nothing but someone's unsupported opinion.

I have heard you make the claim in saying, “credible, verifiable, historical evidence” before on other topics, and I did not agree with your empty words then, why should I now? The burden proof is on you to prove that the evidences I provided is not true. Just saying it is does not mean anything.

BTW ~ Who gets to decide what is credible historical source? Cannot even credible sources sometimes be wrong when it comes to history?

a-lily-of-peace · Sep 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
But this is kind of talk is a diversion away from the bad destructive nature of alcohol. One bad thing does not undo another. Just because excessive sugar is bad and should be spoken against, does not mean we should not speak against alcohol. Both are bad and should be spoken against. The problem is that many Pro-Alcohol Christians believe sugar and alcohol are on the same playing field when they are not. God did not give us a liberty to drink known poisons (i.e. alcohol). Sugar while it can cause diabetes for some and other health problems, this is not the case for all who eat sugar on occasion. There are many families who lived long lives and have eaten deserts many times. Alcohol can kill the innocent people even if they don't even drink alcohol. Somebody drinking alcohol behind a wheel can kill an innocent family. So in one day, alcohol can kill. One day a person eats an apple pie and they drive is not going to kill anyone. A person goes to a bar and they drink and get a little drunk, and then a bar fight breaks out, and they can potentially kill another person by stabbing them with broken bottle (because they are not thinking clearly). Things that a person would not normally while sober, they will do while under the influence of alcohol. They can get caught up in sexual misconduct and or hurt their family. Sugar doesn't do that. So no. Not the same ballpark. Not even close. I shouldn't even have to tell folks this.

I really wasn’t trying to make a point against sugar, but against manipulative rhetoric.

I was trying to say that I find the use of the term “alcoholic beverage” to describe diluted wine to be as disingenuous as using the term “sugary beverage” to describe juice would be if done in an effort to paint juice as inherently and irredeemably bad.

I was speaking against referencing the early church drinking water mixed with wine then linking it to drunken car crashes solely by the use of the abstract term “alcoholic beverages” as though fermentation was something so inherently wrong that even a sip of a drink with what you advised was a 2-3% alcohol content should be portrayed in a way indistinguishable from drinking a bottle of vodka.

None of what you said ever was against a cup of water mixed with wine but only against the greater category of “alcoholic beverages” taken to the extreme of drunkenness and I was trying to show how using that same line of argumentation against “sugary beverages” would be equally disingenuous if my goal was to try to discredit the use of pasteurised juice.

And I honestly hope it doesn’t turn into people condemning each other over sugar.

May the Lord have mercy.

Der Alte · Sep 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Right, the Israelite would dilute fermented wine by several parts of water. The verses I shown are a condemnation of fully fermented undiluted wine. For how do you harmonize the verses that condemn even the usage of wine?

More empty claims with no, zero, none credible, verifiable, historical evidence. Please provide such evidence for your claim that "the Israelite would dilute fermented wine by several parts of water."
When discussing wine in the OT one must distinguish between,

“Yayin” was the ordinary matured, fermented wine, “tirosh” was a new wine, and “shekar” was an old, powerful wine (“strong drink”). ... There were also “yayin ha-reḳaḥ” (spiced wine; Song 8:2), “ashishah” (hardened sirup of grapes), “shemarim (wine-dregs),
Wine in the Old Testament.

Der Alte · Sep 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I have heard you make the claim in saying, “credible, verifiable, historical evidence” before on other topics, and I did not agree with your empty words then, why should I now? The burden proof is on you to prove that the evidences I provided is not true. Just saying it is does not mean anything.
BTW ~ Who gets to decide what is credible historical source? Cannot even credible sources sometimes be wrong when it comes to history?

I have studied at the post graduate level. I learned early on what constitutes credible, verifiable, historical evidence. Such evidence does not consist of copy/pastes from anonymous websites. FYI I am not too concerned if anonymous people on the internet do not agree with something I post.
Here is a short summary from the University of KY.

Historical sources are typically divided into two categories: primary and secondary sources. Depending on the historian's intent, some sources change their designation. Determining what sort of sources to use, and the level of credibility and reliability of those sources, is an important step in critical thinking for the historian.
Primary Sources
Primary sources are produced usually by a participant or observer at the time an event or development took place (or even at a later date). Primary sources include manuscripts such as letters, diaries, journals, memos. Newspapers, memoirs, and autobiographies also might function as primary sources. Nonwritten primary sources might be taped interviews, films and videotapes, photographs, furniture, cards, tools, weapons, houses and other artifacts.
Secondary Sources
Secondary sources are produced when a historian uses primary sources to write about a topic or to support a thesis. Monographs, professionally researched and clearly written, about events and developments in the past might also use other secondary sources. Arranged artifacts might also be considered secondary sources, e.g., a specially designed wall of nineteenth century portraiture. Most books in the history section of a library and the articles in history journals are secondary sources. However, a secondary source, such as George Bancroft's nineteenth century history of the United States, might be a primary source for someone who is writing an article on "Techniques of Writing History in the Nineteenth Century."
Evaluating Primary and Secondary Sources

Bible Highlighter · Sep 29, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Amen. Something we should give our utmost attention. You left off one of my favorites.
Ephesians 5:18. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit.

The prohibition of excess use of wine does not mean one can drink strong wine or drink for social reasons. But I am not against the use of wine as a medical treatment. Timothy was recommended to drink a little wine with his water for the infirmities of his stomach. For example: If a guy's leg got caught in a bear trap, and there was a cabin nearby with dressing and disinfectant and wine to help ease the pain of the person, then this would be a unique circumstance to help a person in great pain. It would not be chumming it up with one's buddies, and then going out for a drive later. I mean, what if a believer accidentally drank a little too much, and they found out that a family member hurt themselves and they were at the hospital? What would Christian do if they were pulled over while racing to the hospital, and were tested for alcohol and they failed? What then? See, wine bites like a serpent.

You said:
Fact is, spirit-filled Christians don't give much mind to alcohol, unless they get caught up in carnal discussions like this one. Take the fellowship where you can get it, find edifying topics
preferentially.

You think it is carnal to lead people away from alcohol that can potentially destroy lives?
You think it is carnal to speak against a drug that causes health problems with even moderate use? If this is a carnal discussion, then why are you still discussing a carnal issue?

Bible Highlighter · Sep 29, 2020

a-lily-in-the-valley said:
I really wasn’t trying to make a point against sugar, but against manipulative rhetoric.

I was trying to say that I find the use of the term “alcoholic beverage” to describe diluted wine to be as disingenuous as using the term “sugary beverage” to describe juice would be if done in an effort to paint juice as inherently and irredeemably bad.

I was speaking against referencing the early church drinking water mixed with wine then linking it to drunken car crashes solely by the use of the abstract term “alcoholic beverages” as though fermentation was something so inherently wrong that even a sip of a drink with what you advised was a 2-3% alcohol content should be portrayed in a way indistinguishable from drinking a bottle of vodka.

None of what you said ever was against a cup of water mixed with wine but only against the greater category of “alcoholic beverages” taken to the extreme of drunkenness and I was trying to show how using that same line of argumentation against “sugary beverages” would be equally disingenuous if my goal was to try to discredit the use of pasteurised juice.

And I honestly hope it doesn’t turn into people condemning each other over sugar.

May the Lord have mercy.

We are told to rebuke with all longsuffering and doctrine (See: 2 Timothy 4:2). Not sure what you think that verse means.

Anyways, I believe the sugar discussion is a diversion away from the evil that happens from alcohol. Sure, sugar is bad, but it is not as bad as alcohol in my view because alcohol clearly destroys lives in numerous ways even without death. Families can be ruined and can be involved in other crimes because of alcohol. For alcohol destroys good judgment. Things people normally would not do while sober, they would do while under the influence of alcohol. I really should not have to educate folks on this basic truth. See, back in my day, when I grew up, my school showed me the horrific videos of all the car crashes and problems that took place as a result of alcohol. Maybe your school did not play these videos. I don't know. But what I do know is that while sugar can hurt lives, it is a slow killer, and it is not like alcohol that can kill a person in one day.

As for mixing water with wine: Yes, I agree that the early church did that for medical reasons, but not for social reasons. I believe the Israelite drank wine mixed with several parts of water, but when Jesus came, He made new changes. How can I prove it? Well, the New Testament commands tell us to be sober minded many times (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). If this is the case, then the moment a person takes a sip of even watered down wine, they are less sober minded then they were before they drank. If one does not care to obey the New Covenant, then by all means, they can do as they please and serve themselves instead of their Lord. I prefer to follow the words of Jesus, and the words of His followers, and not those who are seeking to defend a drink.

“For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.” (Romans 14:17).

Bible Highlighter · Sep 29, 2020

Der Alte said:
I have studied at the post graduate level. I learned early on what constitutes credible, verifiable, historical evidence. Such evidence does not consist of copy/pastes from anonymous websites. FYI I am not too concerned if anonymous people on the internet do not agree with something I post.
Here is a short summary from the University of KY.

Historical sources are typically divided into two categories: primary and secondary sources. Depending on the historian's intent, some sources change their designation. Determining what sort of sources to use, and the level of credibility and reliability of those sources, is an important step in critical thinking for the historian.
Primary Sources
Primary sources are produced usually by a participant or observer at the time an event or development took place (or even at a later date). Primary sources include manuscripts such as letters, diaries, journals, memos. Newspapers, memoirs, and autobiographies also might function as primary sources. Nonwritten primary sources might be taped interviews, films and videotapes, photographs, furniture, cards, tools, weapons, houses and other artifacts.
Secondary Sources
Secondary sources are produced when a historian uses primary sources to write about a topic or to support a thesis. Monographs, professionally researched and clearly written, about events and developments in the past might also use other secondary sources. Arranged artifacts might also be considered secondary sources, e.g., a specially designed wall of nineteenth century portraiture. Most books in the history section of a library and the articles in history journals are secondary sources. However, a secondary source, such as George Bancroft's nineteenth century history of the United States, might be a primary source for someone who is writing an article on "Techniques of Writing History in the Nineteenth Century."
Evaluating Primary and Secondary Sources

Sorry, I am not impressed with your credentials. People even at high levels of education can also believe things that are not true and or things that are irrational. You have to disprove all the sources out there on how grape juice was preserved in ancient times. I am just not sure you can do that because these sources are a part of history. But if you would like to try, be my guest. The question is: Why do you so readily disbelieve those sources? Is it because you currently drink now?

Bible Highlighter · Sep 29, 2020

HARK! said:
No two toxins are completely alike; but toxins are still toxins.

Sorry, brother; I am just not buying the idea that vitamin C is as dangerous as alcoholic beverages. Clearly, alcohol is a deadly toxin, while vitamin C has low amount of toxicity in it and it can be beneficial. Not sure if you understand this or not, but even moderate use of alcohol can lead to health problems.

HARK! · Sep 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Sorry, brother; I am just not buying the idea that vitamin C is as dangerous as alcoholic beverages. Clearly, alcohol is a deadly toxin, while vitamin C has low amount of toxicity in it and it can be beneficial. Not sure if you understand this or not, but even moderate use of alcohol can lead to health problems.

An deadly overdose on Vitamin C is just as deadly as a deadly overdose on alcohol. Deadly is deadly. I would encourage you to consult a doctor before testing the information that I provided from the .gov website. It has been demonstrated that alcohol has beneficial attributes. So does vitamin C. Too much of anything, including water, oxygen, and even sunshine, can have adverse effects on the body.

Moral: Don't abuse the good things that Elohim has given us.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 29, 2020

HARK! said:
An deadly overdose on Vitamin C is just as deadly as a deadly overdose on alcohol. Deadly is deadly. I would encourage you to consult a doctor before testing the information that I provided from the .gov website. It has been demonstrated that alcohol has beneficial attributes. So does vitamin C. Too much of anything, including water, oxygen, and even sunshine, can have adverse effects on the body.

Moral: Don't abuse the good things that Elohim has given us.

Yes, one can overdose on water, and vitamin C. But it takes a lot to do that. With alcohol, it is not the same thing. There is no safe dosage of alcohol consumption. Even one drink can ruin lives. Moderate use of alcohol can lead to health issues. So no. They are not the same thing. Please read up on the dangers of moderate use of alcohol.

Isilwen · Sep 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Yes, one can overdose on water, and vitamin C. But it takes a lot to do that. With alcohol, it is not the same thing. There is no safe dosage of alcohol consumption. Even one drink can ruin lives. Moderate use of alcohol can lead to health issues. So no. They are not the same thing. Please read up on the dangers of moderate use of alcohol.

I am probably who you're not going to want to hear from, however, I will reply.

I very rarely drink alcohol, and when I do, I drink maybe a wine cooler or a glass of Verdi, which is cheap champagne. Most of the time this is amongst friends. As you can see, one drink does no harm to someone who isn't affected by alcohol. I have also never been drunk in my life and I will be 46 on Thursday.

Yes, one drink can ruin someone's life who is predisposed to addiction. For others, one drink does nothing. I have also done what Paul told Timothy to do, and drink alcohol for his stomach. Sometimes when my stomach is sour or upset, I have had a wine cooler and my stomach issue goes away.

Yes, in the Bible it says to stay away from getting drunk. There is a difference between drinking and not getting drunk and drinking and getting drunk. I don't drink to get drunk. I like the taste of the wine cooler or the glass of Verdi. I am not looking to get inebriated.

I do not believe that it is a sin to drink alcohol responsibly as the Bible seems to say with do not get drunk.

Der Alte · Sep 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Sorry, I am not impressed with your credentials. People even at high levels of education can also believe things that are not true and or things that are irrational. You have to disprove all the sources out there on how grape juice was preserved in ancient times. I am just not sure you can do that because these sources are a part of history. But if you would like to try, be my guest. The question is: Why do you so readily disbelieve those sources? Is it because you currently drink now?[/QUOTE]

I don't say anything to impress anonymous people online. Your opinion of anything means diddly squat to me. Here is a brief thumbnail of my thoughts on this. I would not even consider arguing with a doctor, lawyer, accountant etc. about medicine, law, finances etc. based on something I read on an anonymous website. But lots of misguided people erroneously think that what they read online makes them an expert and qualifies them to argue with people who have actually studied.
Here's an analogy for you, would you go in to court concerning some legal situation using only anonymous information you found online? I certainly wouldn't.
Here is another little tidbit for you I learned to speak German when I was 12, when Ike was president. Five years later, about the time of Sputnik 1, I was stationed in Germany and working with/supervising Greek workers who knew very little German or English, I started learning to speak Greek. The very first word I learned one of the Greek workers pointed at a table and said τραπεζη/trahpayzee. About 2 decades after that I studied Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level.

HARK! · Sep 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
There is no safe dosage of alcohol consumption.

Proof? Proof has been provided that alcohol has health benefits.

Bible Highlighter said:
Even one drink can ruin lives.

A single peanut can kill a man.

Der Alte · Sep 29, 2020

HARK! said:
Proof? Proof has been provided that alcohol has health benefits.
A single peanut can kill a man.

Let's ban peanuts.
I have this image of a small chicken running around shrieking "Peanuts kill people, peanuts kill people."

Grapes in the Early Spring

The wine was...

Fermented

Unfermented

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

שמע

This is me about 1 yr. old.

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

This is me about 1 yr. old.

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

שמע

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

This is me about 1 yr. old.

שמע

This is me about 1 yr. old.

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