LDS Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham is False
- Thread starter Dale
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A full reply on OT polygamy will take several posts but I'll start with this.
Peter: "1 Sam. 1:1-2 You have already seen this one, where one of the great prophets of the OT is born from a polygamous father and mother. Must have been a mandate from the Lord if a prophet of God came from it, don't you think?"
There is no mandate for polygamy from God in the OT. Samuel is not responsible for what his parents did or what his father did in taking two wives. What is clear is that the two wives of Samuel's father did not get along, it was a family with a great deal of acrimony.
Samuel's father was Elkanah and his wives were Peninnah and Hannah. Peninnah had children but for many years Hannah did not.
"6 Because the Lord had closed Hannah’s womb, her rival kept provoking her in order to irritate her. 7 This went on year after year. Whenever Hannah went up to the house of the Lord, her rival provoked her till she wept and would not eat."
1 Samuel 1:6-7 NIV
This was an unhappy household, particularly for Hannah. Yet Hannah became the mother of the great prophet Samuel, the last of the Judges and the one who anointed both King Saul and King David.
Although Samuel's father had two wives, unless I missed something, Samuel never married, or at least no wife is ever mentioned.
From John Gill's commentary:
<< 1 Samuel 1:2
And he had two wives
Which, though connived at in those times, was contrary to the original law of marriage; and for which, though a good man, he was chastised, and had a great deal of vexation and trouble, the two wives not agreeing with each other; perhaps not having children by the one so soon as he hoped and wished for, he took another: >>
In John Gill's commentary on 1 Samuel 1:7, we learn that some scholars of the past thought that Samuel's father Elkanah kept his two wives at two different locations, so that they never saw each other except when they went to the Tabernacle. That would explain why the first chapter of I Samuel says that Penninah bullied Hannah when they were eating the sacrifice at the Tabernacle.
<< Abarbinel thinks that Peninnah and Hannah lived at two separate places, the one at Ramah and the other at Ramatha, which both together are called Ramathaim; and that they only met with and saw one another at these festivals, and then it was that the one was so very insulting and provoking to the other. >>
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Peter: "Judges 8:30 Here the hero (Gideon) of the Midianite war, a miraculous victory for Israel as God was with Gideon and his small army defeats the innumerable Midianites. What did Gideon do when he got home. Did he become their king, no, he stayed a humble commoner, but he married many wives and had a bunch of children. A hero of God, and a polygamous man? Must have got a mandate from God, don't you think?"
Again, Gideon's polygamy was not commanded or even suggested by God. It is true that Gideon decided not to be a king, or ruler. If you read the whole story of Gideon, he was either caught up in or contributed to an odd form of idolatry. After his great battle with Midian, he got 43 pounds of gold as the spoils of war. Gideon made this into an ephod, a garment worn by the high priests. Or you could call it a replica of an ephod, since it was never intended to be used by a high priest. Interestingly enough, this ephod is what the high priest wore when using the urim and thummin for divination.
To me, a garment with 43 pounds of gold on it doesn't sound comfortable but it was ceremonial dress, not intended for comfort.
The ephod came to be worshiped in place of the God of Israel.
"Gideon made the gold into an ephod, which he placed in Ophrah, his town. All Israel prostituted themselves by worshiping it there, and it became a snare to Gideon and his family."
Judges 8:27 NIV
Words like "prostituted" and "snare" are strong words. This bad situation got worse after Gideon's death.
"33No sooner had Gideon died than the Israelites again prostituted themselves to the Baals. They set up Baal-Berith as their god 34 and did not remember the Lord their God, who had rescued them from the hands of all their enemies on every side."
Judges 8:33-34 NIV
After Gideon's death, this unhelpful reverence for a material object gave way to outright worship of "the Baals," pagan gods. I don't know if Gideon's many wives had anything to do with his pagan, idolatrous tendencies, but there it is. On one hand, he was a mighty warrior for Israel. The scripture also tells us that Gideon helped lead Israel back into dubious forms of worship and from there to outright paganism.
We cannot take Gideon as a model to follow.
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BigDaddy4
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I did read it. And nothing in there said they would specifically plant citrus trees. In your attempt to link a separate article with your "quarter million citrus trees", you conveniently skip over the 40,000 head of cattle. To manage that much cattle, forests have to be cleared. Combine that with the methane of the cows and now your church is a growing contributor to global warming. Additionally, other agricultural crops will need the land cleared. So, please, stop trying to make excuses. It just makes you look bad.
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He is the way
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NO, It was not a different article or a different link, it was this link both times. Here it is again:
LDS Church makes large timberland purchase in Florida Panhandle
Florida was very pleased with what The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints had done with the land they have purchased. So are the people receiving the food. I suspect you still have NOT read the article or you believe that 250,000 citrus trees will not help the environment or feed people in need. Pine trees may not be so good for the environment. Look what happened in California and Oregon. How much did that add to global warming?
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I have read several articles on the LDS purchase of timber land in the Florida panhandle and there is no mention of citrus trees. Everyone believes that this land will be kept as timber. I believe that there is some LDS land further to the south that has citrus trees on it. Their holdings in citrus are minor compared to the timber and cattle ranching land.
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On where in Florida oranges and other citrus is grown, try this.
According to the State of Florida:
Quote
Acreage and Growing Areas
In Florida, there are about 569,000 acres of citrus groves and more than 74 million citrus trees. Most citrus is grown in the southern two-thirds of the Florida peninsula, where there is low probability for a freeze. After a series of freezes in the 1980s, citrus growers gradually migrated southward from central and northern regions, although Polk County in the Central part of the state remains the top citrus producing county.
End Quote
Polk County is south of Orlando.
Link
Facts About Florida Oranges & Citrus | VISIT FLORIDA
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He is the way
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The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints owns approximately 2% of Florida. Not all of that land is in the panhandle. Part of that land has 250,000 citrus trees (most likely in the south as you say) that help the environment. All plants are good for the environment whether they are pasture plants or pine trees. There are 94.8 million cattle in the United States. Forty thousand is minor compared to that. I wonder what would would have happened if someone else had bought the land. Would anyone have cared what they did with the land? It is only a big deal because it is owned by The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. No one seems to care about the other 94 plus million cattle. Does your church supply food for the hungry? Do they give them milk, butter, and meat as part of that food?
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BigDaddy4
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You're funny. The 250,000 citrus trees has nothing to do with the current purchase and yet you want to make a big deal about it as if it proves some point you are trying to make. The article only points out it may be used for agriculture. Given the current use of LDS land in the general area, the likely use is timber harvest, cattle, or some other non-citrus tree crops. As Dale pointed out, most citrus tree orchards are further south in Florida to avoid potential freezing.
Besides, even if it were to be used for citrus trees, you still have to cut down the forest to plant the trees, losing the native forest and all the wildlife it supports.
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Who is the first man with two wives mentioned in the Bible? This happens quite early, in Genesis 4, but it doesn't say much for polygamy. The first man with two wives in Genesis is Lamech.
Lamech is a descendant of Cain.
The line is Cain --> Enoch --> Irad --> Mehujael --> Methushael --> Lamech.
19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. 20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. 22 Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.
23 Lamech said to his wives,
“Adah and Zillah, listen to me;
wives of Lamech, hear my words.
I have killed a man for wounding me,
a young man for injuring me.
24 If Cain is avenged seven times,
then Lamech seventy-seven times.”
Genesis 4:19-24 NIV
Cain is the first murderer, since he murdered his brother Abel. God put a curse on Cain for that deed.
10 And the Lord said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground. 11 And now you are cursed from the ground, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you till the ground, it shall no longer yield to you its strength; you shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth.”
Genesis 4:10-12 NIV
Lamech, a descendant of Cain, is the first to take two wives, and also an unrepentant murderer.
This doesn't say much for polygamy.
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The Jewish Encyclopedia finds no evidence of any OT prophet having two or more wives. The prophets seem to be monogamous.
"There is no Biblical evidence that any of the Prophets lived in polygamy. Monogamous marriage was used by them as a symbol of the union of God with Israel, while polygamy was compared to polytheism or idolatrous worship ..."
In other words, God never called a man with two or more wives to be a prophet.
We know what the New Testament says about marriage for Bishops and deacons.
2 Now a bishop must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, dignified, hospitable, an apt teacher, 3 no drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, and no lover of money.
1 Timothy 3:2-3 RSV
12 Let deacons be the husband of one wife, and let them manage their children and their households well ...
1 Timothy 3:12 RSV
Link
POLYGAMY - JewishEncyclopedia.com
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He is the way
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The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints owns 2% of Florida, not 50%. Neither do you know how The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is going to use the land. So just what is your point? I guess you are not worried about the 94 million cattle in the United States or people who need food. What about all of the wildlife and trees burned up with the 4 million acre fires in California? The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is protecting the land in Florida.
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You are the one who believes The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is not taking care of their land in Florida properly. But I think you just want to argue even though you have nothing.
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He is the way
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You didn't say this?: "I did read it. And nothing in there said they would specifically plant citrus trees. In your attempt to link a separate article with your "quarter million citrus trees", you conveniently skip over the 40,000 head of cattle. To manage that much cattle, forests have to be cleared. Combine that with the methane of the cows and now your church is a growing contributor to global warming."
This is clearly about how The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is taking care of their property. And as I said I did not link a separate article, it was the same link. Here it is again:
LDS Church makes large timberland purchase in Florida Panhandle The article states: " Conservationists hope the church's company is mindful of the important northwest Florida watersheds it has acquired. The Conservation Fund's George Willson said he was pleased "to see that someone with a record of stewardship is buying it."
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BigDaddy4
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I did say that, but that's not what you characterized me as saying. The point was "now your church is a growing contributor to global warming."
From your article: "It is our intent that this purchase will remain in agriculture for a long, long time.”
How do you turn timberland into useful agriculture land? You remove the timber! What happens when you remove thousands of acres of timber? You remove the natural habitat of numerous animals and vegetation. You also increase the contribution to global warming, regardless if you replant trees or plant new crops. It still has an effect.
Hence my original question in post #585:
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So in your view if we stop growing food and raising cattle we can prevent global warming?
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