I give as God leads me to. Those who are sons of God are led by His Spirit and we don't live by bread only but we live by every word that proceeds from His mouth. And since His thoughts are not my (or your) thoughts, nor are our ways HIS ways, then we don't want to assume (unless we're foolish) one thing about what's valid or invalid.
I suppose we'll do well to follow His voice. a
As the heavens are higher than the earth, His thoughts and ways are above ours. that's some huge difference!
Again, I can appreciate how spiritual sounding that comes across, but what has astounded me is how many people out there think God would ever direct us to do what is opposed to the Lord's express will, as seen in the actions and teachings of the apostles. I can't help but to glean that they have holes in their understanding. Nowhere do we see the apostles instructing the believers to give the largest share of what they have set aside to give to the Lord into something from which they directly benefit, like paying one's dues at the local Lion's Club. It's astounding how easily we can be fooled by repetitive foundations of teaching from pulpits that have no grounding in scripture. We as a culture seem to have lost the skills of critical thinking.
Another question for you: What acid test do you apply to KNOW you are hearing from God as opposed to some other voice in your head/heart? If we don't comparatively test it to the word and examples within God's word, and yet go ahead an do what is contrary to it all, excusing our disobedience on the basis of our allegedly hearing from God an instruction to do what is contrary, how do we defend that without betraying what is clearly taught?
Perhaps you're the expert on what a meeting place should be and how it will be financed, I'm not.
That's it? If we find ourselves retreating into the corner of "expertise," stacked against the alleged "needs" of the luxuries we afford for ourselves, and we begin trying to back out from that corner without being bludgeoned by the rods of our own hypocrisies, what does that say about our need for change in our beliefs? I was in that corner for many years until that one day, sitting in a religious service, I looked up through the ceiling into the Heavens, and asked the Lord, "Is this all we are as a body of believers? Are we nothing more for each other, sitting here looking at the backs of each other's heads, call that "fellowship," and going through this motion week after week after week? Does this reflect YOUR Kingdom? Is this the sum total of what we are as a local body, sitting idly while the professionals do all the ministry? What about that sister over there, or that brother over here? What are they going through? What hardships can I help them get through? How can I encourage and minister to them?" Dared I act upon those questions in the almighty service, I would have been thrown out post haste for daring to interrupt the god of that service known as the "program."
Again, can you show me where the Lord commanded, or even exemplified, to the New Testament saints the practice of handing over the primary portion of one's "giving" toward the luxuries of church buildings, programs, professional staffing and all the other multitudes of luxuries churchianity routinely heaps back upon itself and its people? How is that "giving to God?" What has the Lord said to you that would somehow justify that? How did you test the source of that inspiration? Did you gauge it against what you KNOW is written in the very word of God. Believe me when I say that I fully understand the power of persuasion to ride the band wagon rather than to dare to jump off and call to those still on that wagon to jump off with you and dare to explore the truth of what you had been taught all your religious life. Those who remain on that wagon will heckle and even hate you for daring to jump off and reflect, fixating your thoughts on the Most High and His thoughts and His ways that He gives after simply asking. You will indeed be hated by some of those you thought were your brothers and sisters in the Lord. They will accuse you of being a "Lone Star Christian," never realizing many of them are on that broad path that leads to destruction.
When it really comes down to it, we don't HAVE to possess communal property and professional staffing to gather in the Lord's Name? Jesus didn't say, "Where two or three hundred-plus are gathered in my name, there am I in their midst..." No! He said "Where TWO or THREE are gathered in my name, THERE AM I in THEIR midst." For years, institutionalists have been trying to defend modern practices as if they are God-breathed, and yet the only traceable history to our arrangements is straight from Roman Catholicism, and they got that from paganism. Jesus at no time directed the construction of "church" buildings where He could enter in, put on funny robes or fancy clothing, stand behind a podium/pulpit, defending it against YOU daring to gt up there and share, and professional, degreed Bible Cemetery Graduates vomit the usual fare of Aristotilian Rhetoric of an introduction, three main points, and a conclusion.
Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's inherently wrong for a group to possess communal property and the luxuries therein. What's blatantly wrong is teaching that the Lord expects the largest and primary share of one's giving be handed over to such in the place of each individual taking personal responsibility for their own giving by meeting needs, and supporting itinerant ministers of Christ in accordance with the NT examples and instructions.
If you want some genuine discussion I'm all in.
But if you merely want to play a part you ought not, by accusing the brethren,
I'll pass.
Questions, not accusations. Knowing church history doesn't make someone a bad person, and seeing what's really going on doesn't make me a bad person either. If the questions are discomforting, then perhaps that's an opportunity on your part to seek the Lord's thoughts and ways, of which you spoke. The Lord never did say that we can't ask of Him His thoughts and ways, even though they are above ours to discern for yourselves as the heavens are above the earth. Nowhere did He say He could not or would not give them to us. I have been asking for His thoughts and ways for years, and He has been faithful beyond measure. The ten thousand dollar questions is, are you willing to lay down your own personal beliefs outside the door, walk in to the Holy of Holies through the Veil, which is the flesh of Christ, and learn from Him? (1 John 2:27)
How about you? Do you ask for His thoughts and His ways...will you ask for them, or do you see yourself as not worthy of asking? I mean, you tell me. I don't know you personally, but I have encountered many who are too timid (or stubborn) to even dare ask of the Lord much of what likely will violate their current beliefs. Many people prefer to remain stuck where they are rather than to give themselves over to a Sovereign Lord who may dare give to them what is contrary to their chosen system of beliefs. That could apply to any one of us.
I don't come here to fight like heathen, i come here for edification to bless and be blessed.
If you have something to teach, teach it with Scripture and speak that truth in love, ( i mean since we're splitting hairs here) I can't change the error of my ways if no one has shown me what I'm doing wrong.
Your opinion is merely that, opinion.
That's why I have asked where the word of God, for the New Testament Church, exemplifies the modern practice of handing over to churchianity the lion's share of one's giving as opposed to meeting needs first and foremost? I can give to you verses that you already know, such as where the apostles overlooked the collections, all of which were utilized for the meeting of needs, whether local or in other areas where the persecutions were far worse. They also met the needs of itinerant ministers like Paul. The plurality of the local elders discipled and taught those in the milk, raising them up to the meat of spiritual maturity in the word of God rather than to sit in pews or chairs for 70 years of their lives, perpetually bleeting like lost sheep for more and more and more milk.
Insulting your intelligence with what you already know is in the word of God is not my intention. That is why I have challenged you to show me where modern practices exist in the NT, in defense of our luxuries being the rightful repository of our primary giving. Where it is exemplified anywhere in the NT as a suitable replacement to the first century model?
Jr
