Any scriptural evidence that evangelized Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath?

klutedavid · Sep 27, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
You do realize that is old testament and those crimes no longer carry those punishments?

Also, unless one chooses to sin as such as a lifestyle, never asking forgiveness, all those sins are forgivable.

Of course I do.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2020

chad kincham said:
If as you claim, that because we are supposedly spiritual Israel, that we are required to keep the sabbath, then we would be required to enforce the penalty for breaking the sabbath command as the same law requires be done, which is to Stone them to death.

The reason 2 Corinthians ch. 3 calls the ten commands given to Moses the letter that KILLS, the ministry of DEATH, and ministry of CONDEMNATION, is the penalty for breaking them is death by stoning.

God divorced Israel for spiritual adultery in Jeremiah 3:8 for adultery, which ended their covenant with God - and the Decalogue is called the COVENANT on two tables of stone - thus obviously when the old covenant ended, the ten commands ended.

God allowed the Jewish temple to be destroyed because the mosaic covenant was no more, and ended the sabbaths:

Lam 2:5 The Lord was as an enemy: he hath swallowed up Israel, he hath swallowed up all her palaces: he hath destroyed his strong holds, and hath increased in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.

Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and SABBATHS to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Lam 2:7 The Lord hath cast off his altar, he hath abhorred his sanctuary, he hath given up into the hand of the enemy the walls of her palaces; they have made a noise in the house of the LORD, as in the day of a solemn feast.

And in Galatians ch 4, Paul contrasts the two covenants, calling the one from Mount SINAI bondage.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?

Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman.

Gal 4:23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise.

Gal 4:24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount SINAI, bearing children for SLAVERY; she is Hagar.

Gal 4:25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the PRESENT JERUSALEM for she is in slavery with her children.

Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem ABOVE is free, and SHE is our mother.

Gal 4:27 For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.”

Gal 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.

Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”

Gal 4:31 So, brothers, we are not children of the SLAVE but of the free woman.

The old covenant from Mount Sinai represents bondage, but we are under the new covenant.

In Acts 15:5 there were those claiming gentile believers must be circumcised AND KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES.

Peter responding to that, calls the law of Moses a yoke of bondage.

Act 15:7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Act 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,

Act 15:9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Act 15:10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

Their conclusion after meeting together over the claim gentiles must keep the law of Moses, was:

Act 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,

Act 15:20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

In the second coming God will be judging every man according to his works. There will be two choices for each of us- eternal life or death. In the OT people were stoned for being wicked and not keeping the sabbath and I don't think it will be much different when Jesus returns. The Bible says you are either with Him or against Him. There is no lukewarm.

I was raised SDA and went away from it for a long time. Not that I didn't believe, but not following Him the way we are supposed to. I used to think the the narrow gate was really not that narrow, but now I think the scripture is exactly as it reads Mathew 7:13-14 NKJV 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

God cast Lucifer out of Heaven. I do not think He is going to have lukewarm Christians in heaven. You have to believe in Him, love Him with all your heart and obey, which includes Gods laws.

The other scripture that really stand out is knowing God. 1 John 2:14 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Which commandment is about knowing God? The one that starts with Remember:

Exodus 20:8-11 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The 4th commandment is the only one that uses the word Holy. It's the only one the Lord blessed. The only one that begins with Remember. This must be a special commandment why? Because this is the day that we get to cease our work and put away all our stresses of the world and focus on our relationship with Jesus Christ. Its the day He asked us to worship Him and its the day we can spend precious time getting to know Him.

Which is why this scripture is so important: 1 John 2:14 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

For those who are so adamant about Sabbath being "done away with" why don't you give it a try? What do you have to lose? Go to church one Sabbath and keep the entire day Holy (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown). Go to church, read the Bible, pray. It really is a blessing and why God blessed His special day.

klutedavid · Sep 27, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, here is the evidence that the "covenant" of the Sabbath is an unconditional "sign" of our relationship with God "forever".

The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’ ” (Exodus 31:16-17 NIV)

Because in the next passage we learn that those of us who have "come in" are "part" of "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but Israelites.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:25-31 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

In that case Gentiles must be circumcised for that is what the law demands.

If Gentiles are not circumcised then Gentiles are not part of Israel. Gentiles are, in fact, grafted into the root of the olive tree, which is Christ.

Israel was grafted out of the olive tree and the old covenant was cancelled.

We are a new creation in Christ and there is no longer a Jew or a Gentile.

klutedavid · Sep 27, 2020

imge said:
In the second coming God will be judging every man according to his works. There will be two choices for each of us- eternal life or death. In the OT people were stoned for being wicked and not keeping the sabbath and I don't think it will be much different when Jesus returns. The Bible says you are either with Him or against Him. There is no lukewarm.

I was raised SDA and went away from it for a long time. Not that I didn't believe, but not following Him the way we are supposed to. I used to think the the narrow gate was really not that narrow, but now I think the scripture is exactly as it reads Mathew 7:13-14 NKJV 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

God cast Lucifer out of Heaven. I do not think He is going to have lukewarm Christians in heaven. You have to believe in Him, love Him with all your heart and obey, which includes Gods laws.

The other scripture that really stand out is knowing God. 1 John 2:14 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Which commandment is about knowing God? The one that starts with Remember:

Exodus 20:8-11 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The 4th commandment is the only one that uses the word Holy. It's the only one the Lord blessed. The only one that begins with Remember. This must be a special commandment why? Because this is the day that we get to cease our work and put away all our stresses of the world and focus on our relationship with Jesus Christ. Its the day He asked us to worship Him and its the day we can spend precious time getting to know Him.

Which is why this scripture is so important: 1 John 2:14 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

For those who are so adamant about Sabbath being "done away with" why don't you give it a try? What do you have to lose? Go to church one Sabbath and keep the entire day Holy (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown). Go to church, read the Bible, pray. It really is a blessing and why God blessed His special day.

You say we are judged and I say we are not judged.

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2020

klutedavid said:
In that case Gentiles must be circumcised for that is what the law demands.

If Gentiles are not circumcised then Gentiles are not part of Israel. Gentiles are, in fact, grafted into the root of the olive tree, which is Christ.

Israel was grafted out of the olive tree and the old covenant was cancelled.

We are a new creation in Christ and there is no longer a Jew or a Gentile.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2020

klutedavid said:
You say we are judged and I say we are not judged.

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Revelations 22:12-14
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

You're either in heaven or you're not according to our work(s). God is the one making that decision for each of us.

Kenny'sID · Sep 27, 2020

klutedavid said:
Of course I do.

Garoovy.

klutedavid · Sep 27, 2020

imge said:
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

There are many commandments in the Old and New Testament.

If you are under the law then you must obey the law and become circumcised. Sin is lawlessness, the uncircumcised are excommunicated from Israel.

Paul was proclaiming that Gentiles were not under the law, hence Gentiles are not circumcised.

The written law is very specific and defined. The written law was given only to Israel at Mt Sinai. Gentiles were never considered to be under the law of Moses. That is why the Gentiles are called the uncircumcised.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2020

klutedavid said:
There are many commandments in the Old and New Testament.

If you are under the law then you must obey the law and become circumcised. Sin is lawlessness, the uncircumcised are excommunicated from Israel.

Paul was proclaiming that Gentiles were not under the law, hence Gentiles are not circumcised.

The written law is very specific and defined. The written law was given only to Israel at Mt Sinai. Gentiles were never considered to be under the law of Moses. That is why the Gentiles are called the uncircumcised.

Circumcision is not part of Gods law.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

There is only one Gods law (10 commandments) written in stone to symbol everlasting. There was ceremonial laws and statues that no longer apply. God's law is unchanged and for everyone.

klutedavid · Sep 27, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Garoovy.

I believe Jesus fulfilled the law and especially the moral law. The entire law of Moses was fulfilled and the prophets also.

That is why we are saved by grace because we receive the righteousness of Christ by faith. We cannot be judged because we are the very image of Christ Himself.

chad kincham · Sep 27, 2020

guevaraj said:
Brother, that passage doesn't refer to "all Israel". After Solomon, the nation divided into two camps: the largest with 10 tribes known as Israel and the smallest with two tribes known as Judah. The passage you mentioned speaks of the lost tribes of Israel who never returned after the Babylonian exile. Only the part of the nation known as Judah returned after 70 years and rebuild the temple. What duelists who think we are still Gentiles forget is that not "all Israel" rejected Jesus. There is a "part" of "all Israel" that remained faithful to God and we have "come in" to the "part" of "all Israel" that accepted Jesus. Romans 11:25-31 reveals that those of us who have "come in" are "part" of "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but Israelites.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:25-31 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Not sure of your point, because it’s clear that the old covenant has ended, being replaced with a new and better covenant.

And the Decalogue WAS the old covenant, on two tables of stone.

The two love commands replaced the old ten.

klutedavid · Sep 27, 2020

imge said:
Circumcision is not part of Gods law.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Jesus was circumcised. Will you walk as Jesus walked or will you interpret the scripture?

As I said before there are a lot of commandments in the scripture. Which set have you been told to keep?

klutedavid · Sep 27, 2020

chad kincham said:
Not sure of your point, because it’s clear that the old covenant has ended, being replaced with a new and better covenant.

And the Decalogue WAS the old covenant, on two tables of stone.

The two love commands replaced the old ten.

The commandments in the law or the commandments that Jesus gave?

One set of commandments are old commandments and the other set of commandments are new commandments.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2020

klutedavid said:
Jesus was circumcised. Will you walk as Jesus walked or will you interpret the scripture?

As I said before there are a lot of commandments in the scripture. Which set have you been told to keep?

Is this scripture not clear?
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2020

chad kincham said:
Not sure of your point, because it’s clear that the old covenant has ended, being replaced with a new and better covenant.

And the Decalogue WAS the old covenant, on two tables of stone.

The two love commands replaced the old ten.

So its okay to kill, lie, covet, worship idols, use Gods name in vain. Really?

klutedavid · Sep 27, 2020

imge said:
Circumcision is not part of Gods law.

Circumcision is certainly the law and a commandment given to Abraham.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

The ten commandments are the law and the law demands circumcision.

That is the truth.

There is only one Gods law (10 commandments) written in stone to symbol everlasting. There was ceremonial laws and statues that no longer apply. God's law is unchanged and for everyone.

Stone is not everlasting. The old covenant was not everlasting. Theocratic Israel was not everlasting.

You need to quote the scripture that identifies 'ceremonial law'?

klutedavid · Sep 27, 2020

imge said:
So its okay to kill, lie, covet, worship idols, use Gods name in vain. Really?

If you live by unconditional love towards others, then you will not kill or steal. It is very simple.

Tell me what you think; if you do not forgive others will you be forgiven?

If not then why not?

Kenny'sID · Sep 27, 2020

klutedavid said:
I believe Jesus fulfilled the law and especially the moral law. The entire law of Moses was fulfilled and the prophets also.

That is why we are saved by grace because we receive the righteousness of Christ by faith. We cannot be judged because we are the very image of Christ Himself.

Oh, you are faith only, and no need to do good, we will go to heaven regardless?

guevaraj · Sep 27, 2020

klutedavid said:
In that case Gentiles must be circumcised for that is what the law demands.

Brother, we are now "circumcised of the heart". God told us it would change and now it has changed.

The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live. (Deuteronomy 30:6 NIV)

Promised was above what has now come true below.

No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God. (Romans 2:29 NIV)

klutedavid said:
If Gentiles are not circumcised then Gentiles are not part of Israel. Gentiles are, in fact, grafted into the root of the olive tree, which is Christ. Israel was grafted out of the olive tree and the old covenant was cancelled. We are a new creation in Christ and there is no longer a Jew or a Gentile.

"It is written" that those of us who have "come in" are "part" of "all Israel", no longer Gentiles but Israelites.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. (Romans 11:25-31 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

SabbathBlessings · Sep 27, 2020

klutedavid said:
Circumcision is certainly the law and a commandment given to Abraham.The ten commandments are the law and the law demands circumcision.

That is the truth.Stone is not everlasting. The old covenant was not everlasting. Theocratic Israel was not everlasting.

You need to quote the scripture that identifies 'ceremonial law'?

You do understand the difference between ceremonial laws, traditions and commandments right? In case not here are Gods Commandments (google it yourself). Gods law never changed which is why its repeated throughout old and new testaments and close to the last versus in the Bible.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Exodus 20 3:17

The Ten Commandments

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Any scriptural evidence that evangelized Gentiles are to keep the Sabbath?

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an oil seller in the story of the ten virgins

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