Stammering Lips and Other Tongues

Mr. M · Sep 27, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Here is what I mean.

This is completely consistent with this explanation, given earlier in Ch. 12

1 Corinthians 12:
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of
knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits,
to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one
individually as He wills.

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
The subject matter and problem Paul is addressing IS the whole congregation.

Speaking in tongues is not the problem.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Saint Steven said: ↑
See post #18 above for a better understanding of the different kinds of tongues.
There is nothing wrong with speaking in tongues without interpretation at church if you are not addressing the whole congregation.

Charlie24 · Sep 27, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Speaking in tongues is not the problem.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

Saint Steven said: ↑
See post #18 above for a better understanding of the different kinds of tongues.
There is nothing wrong with speaking in tongues without interpretation at church if you are not addressing the whole congregation.

Using tongues improperly is the problem, as I have noted from the beginning.

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Using tongues improperly is the problem, as I have noted from the beginning.

What would you say is an improper use of tongues?
I'm pretty sure that you do not understand what the Apostle was saying to them.

Charlie24 · Sep 27, 2020

Saint Steven said:
What would you say is an improper use of tongues?
I'm pretty sure that you do not understand what the Apostle was saying to them.

Paul tells them the problem in 1Cor. 14:26.

Paul is not addressing personal edification of tongues here.

His is not addressing outbursts of tongues where there is no interpretation intended.

He is addressing the gift of tongues, one of the 9 gifts of the Spirit that are meant to be interpreted. They were not interpreting these so-called gifts.

That is not the only problem, today the Corinthian Church would be called holy rollers.

vs. 26 tells us they had many problems other than improper use of tongues.

Paul said how is it that when the congregation gathers everyone of you has a Psalm, a doctrine, a tongue, a revelation, has an interpretation?

Mr. M · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Paul said how is it that when the congregation gathers everyone of you has a Psalm, a doctrine, a tongue, a revelation, has an interpretation?

1 Corinthians 14:26. What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.

Paul is encouraging everyone to participate, but only in an orderly fashion.
1 Corinthians 14:
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three,
and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak
to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Paul tells them the problem in 1Cor. 14:26.

Paul is not addressing personal edification of tongues here.

His is not addressing outbursts of tongues where there is no interpretation intended.

He is addressing the gift of tongues, one of the 9 gifts of the Spirit that are meant to be interpreted. They were not interpreting these so-called gifts.

That is not the only problem, today the Corinthian Church would be called holy rollers.

vs. 26 tells us they had many problems other than improper use of tongues.

Paul said how is it that when the congregation gathers everyone of you has a Psalm, a doctrine, a tongue, a revelation, has an interpretation?

Wow.
I was wrong, but I was right. How did that happen? - lol
It seems you properly identified the problem with the Corinthian church.
(No interpretation of tongues when it was needed) I'm impressed.
But... then you show that you don't understand how a gifted church should operate.
Where is the problem in your quoted reference below?
And why would you use the derogatory term "holy rollers"?

1 Corinthians 14:26
What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.

Charlie24 · Sep 27, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
1 Corinthians 14:26. What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.

Paul is encouraging everyone to participate, but only in an orderly fashion.
1 Corinthians 14:
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three,
and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak
to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

But they were participating in ignorance. Paul tells them in 1Cor. 12:30,

Have all the gifts of healing, do all speak with tongues, do all interpret?

The answer to all three is NO. But they were doing so.

Charlie24 · Sep 27, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Wow.
I was wrong, but I was right. How did that happen? - lol
It seems you properly identified the problem with the Corinthian church.
(No interpretation of tongues when it was needed) I'm impressed.
But... then you show that you don't understand how a gifted church should operate.
Where is the problem in your quoted reference below?
And why would you use the derogatory term "holy rollers"?

1 Corinthians 14:26
What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.

All very good things used in the wrong way.

Why do you think Paul was giving them correction in these things?

Wait!!! Let me guess! You don't see it as correction.

Paul is patting them on the back saying, good job, in 1Cor. 14

Mr. M · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
But they were participating in ignorance. Paul tells them in 1Cor. 12:30,

Have all the gifts of healing, do all speak with tongues, do all interpret?

The answer to all three is NO. But they were doing so.

He is showing them a better, more effective way.
Ignorance through immaturity is clearly correctable.
This is not condemnation, or even rebuke. Where is the Love?
Oh yeah, he put that in between chapters 12 and 14 to establish priorities.

Charlie24 · Sep 27, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
He is showing them a better, more effective way.
Ignorance through immaturity is clearly correctable.
This is not condemnation, or even rebuke. Where is the Love?
Oh yeah, he put that in between chapters 12 and 14 to establish priorities.

Paul is correcting them in a loving manner, as he should have. He knew it was ignorance and not intentional.

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
All very good things used in the wrong way.

Why do you think Paul was giving them correction in these things?

Wait!!! Let me guess! You don't see it as correction.

Paul is patting them on the back saying, good job, in 1Cor. 14

That's pretty funny. Pat on the back. Well done. - lol

What people tend to forget is that the Corinthian church didn't have 1 Corinthians chapter 12 before Paul wrote 1 Corinthians chapter 14. Where is the instruction about manifestations of the Holy Spirit prior to 1 Corinthians? No such thing, right?

I mean, look at the way chapter 12 begins.

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed.

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Paul is correcting them in a loving manner, as he should have. He knew it was ignorance and not intentional.

Just to be clear...
I don't think Paul was trying to make Baptists out of them. - lol
They were clearly Charismatic or Pentecostal.

Charlie24 · Sep 27, 2020

Saint Steven said:
That's pretty funny. Pat on the back. Well done. - lol

What people tend to forget is that the Corinthian church didn't have 1 Corinthians chapter 12 before Paul wrote 1 Corinthians chapter 14. Where is the instruction about manifestations of the Holy Spirit prior to 1 Corinthians? No such thing, right?

I mean, look at the way chapter 12 begins.

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed.

Paul would have instructed the Corinthians in the scripture at the founding of the church before his first letter, as was his manner according to Josephus.

How else would they have know about the gifts of the Spirit?

There are many theories on how the Corinthians became what I call holy rollers.

I think it was an over zealous spirit combined with misunderstanding of Paul's teaching.

Also Josephus said that Corinth was the ungodliest of the ungodly of the gentile world.

Paul had many problems with the people of this particular church.

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Paul would have instructed the Corinthians in the scripture at the founding of the church before his first letter, as was his manner according to Josephus.

How else would they have know about the gifts of the Spirit?

There are many theories on how the Corinthians became what I call holy rollers.

I think it was an over zealous spirit combined with misunderstanding of Paul's teaching.

Also Josephus said that Corinth was the ungodliest of the ungodly of the gentile world.

Paul had many problems with the people of this particular church.

As I already asked, where is the instruction in the gifts of the Spirit prior to the writing of Corinthians? Paul is explaining something they have never heard before. And it seems no one had. Nowhere else does Paul, or any other NT writer, outline the manifestations of the Spirit like this.

They were experiencing manifestations of the Holy Spirit. This was not some willful outrageous behavior. You refer to it as if it was sinful. Not so.

1 Corinthians 12:11
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Charlie24 · Sep 27, 2020

Could you imagine being personally instructed in the scripture by the Apostle Paul?

What an honor that would have been to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ straight from his mouth!

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Have all the gifts of healing, do all speak with tongues, do all interpret?

The answer to all three is NO. But they were doing so.

We aren't limited to one spiritual gift per believer.
In fact, I don't think we possess the gifts as much as they possess us.
I'm open to any gift that God needs me to manifest.
And I have had manifestations that basically only happened once.

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Could you imagine being personally instructed in the scripture by the Apostle Paul?

What an honor that would have been to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ straight from his mouth!

We tend to put the Apostles on a pedestal. But the truth is that they were ordinary folks like you and I. In fact, I see them as bungling idiots half the time.

Jesus said it best.

Luke 18:8
"... when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

Charlie24 · Sep 27, 2020

Saint Steven said:
As I already asked, where is the instruction in the gifts of the Spirit prior to the writing of Corinthians? Paul is explaining something they have never heard before. And it seems no one had. Nowhere else does Paul, or any other NT writer, outline the manifestations of the Spirit like this.

They were experiencing manifestations of the Holy Spirit. This was not some willful outrageous behavior. You refer to it as if it was sinful. Not so.

1 Corinthians 12:11
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Are you asking where did the initial knowledge of the manifestations of the Spirit come from? As far as man being aware of it?

Saint Steven · Sep 27, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Are you asking where did the initial knowledge of the manifestations of the Spirit come from? As far as man being aware of it?

I'm saying that this was a pioneering work.
Obviously, it began at Pentecost. But there was no instruction manual included.
In Acts chapter two the Spirit came on those who were baptized. A few chapters later that didn't work so they had to lay hands on them to receive the Spirit. When Peter preached at the house of Cornelius, the Spirit manifested spontaneously. These things were very unpredictable.

Stammering Lips and Other Tongues

Well-Known Member

You can call me Steve

Newbie

You can call me Steve

Newbie

Well-Known Member

You can call me Steve

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

Newbie

You can call me Steve

Newbie

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

Newbie

You can call me Steve

Similar threads