The Trinity - Live Q&A - 40b

Freedm said:

So, I'm curious, on what do you base your position that modalism is a heresy? I'm asking because I'm willing to bet that whatever you believe regarding the relationships of the three, is also easily refuted by facts and perhaps even the same Bible you use to support your beliefs, so what makes one interpretation more biblically sound than another, and on what basis is an interpretation rightfully labelled a heresy?

I mean, aren't we all just trying to "figure it out"? And isn't it beneficial for us to discuss and thoughtfully consider all interpretations, lest our own conceits blind us to the possibility that we might be wrong about something? Of course if you've already made the determination that modalism is indeed a heresy, as you claim, I would love to hear your reasoning on it.

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For starters Scripture makes the distinction between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Son is not the Father, the Father is not the Son and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Listen to Jesus explain in below:

John 14-16 Holy Spirit distinct from the Father and Son


John 14:16-17
16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

John 14:23
My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 15:26-27
26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

John 16:5-8
"But nowI am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, Where are You going?' 6"But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go,I will send Him to you. 8"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

John 16:13-15
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15"All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name(singular not plural names) of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit


Basic English grammar above with the personal pronouns alone exclude modalism and confirms the Trinity as distinct Persons.

Freedm said:

How is considering modalism the denial of the true God? Isn't it just another attempt to explain a relationship that's been left ambiguous to us by scripture? Or is he literally denying that Jesus is the Christ or that the father is God of all?

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There is nothing ambiguous about God.

A false god can no more save you than a false christ or false gospel. Read Galatians 1

There is the True God and there are many false gods
There is the True Christ and there are many false christs
There is the True Gospel and many false gospels
There is only one way to God and many false ways to God.
There is One Mediator between God and man and many false mediators.
There is only one way to salvation and many false ways to salvation.

hope this helps !!

Jesus is YHWH said:

Basic English grammar above with the personal pronouns alone exclude modalism and confirms the Trinity as distinct Persons.

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So how do you explain the relationships between the three? I've heard a few over the years, like for example "He is one God, in three persons" (whatever that means) or "We are not capable of understanding" or "Three Gods who share a single mind". What's your take on that?

Freedm said:

So how do you explain the relationships between the three? I've heard a few over the years, like for example "He is one God, in three persons" (whatever that means) or "We are not capable of understanding" or "Three Gods who share a single mind". What's your take on that?

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There are 2 major Monotheistic Religions.

1- Judaism
2- Christianity
3- Islam

Only one of them worships the True God which is Christianity which is the Trinity.

We see in the creation account in Colossians 1 and Hebrews 1 that the Father and Son together created all things. In other places we see the Spirits work in creation in Genesis 1:1-2

The Father- Isaiah 44:24, 1 Corinthians 8:6
The Son - Colossians 1:16; John 1:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6
The Holy Spirit- Job 33:4, Psalms 104:30, Genesis 1:2

In John 17:1-5 we see the Son say He was together with the Father before creation. In Matthew 28:19 Jesus says to baptize in the name(singular) of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit once again making the distinction in the Persons of the Godhead.

In Genesis 1:26 God said: Let US make man in OUR image in OUR likeness

I can give you dozens more examples if you would like.

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]
its prophetic regarding His future Coming as a man born in the lineage of David.

[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]

Der Alte said:

John 17:5 Now, Father, glorify me with yourself with the glory I had with you before the world existed.
John 3:13
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 6:33
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
John 6:38
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 6:50
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
John 6:51
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 6:58
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.​

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This should put an end to the discussion but as we know many deny the Eternal Son.

No eternal Son, no eternal Father.

Freedm said:

So how do you explain the relationships between the three? I've heard a few over the years, like for example "He is one God, in three persons" (whatever that means) or "We are not capable of understanding" or "Three Gods who share a single mind". What's your take on that?

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I like the one God in three persons belief. Also it does get very close to we are not capable of understanding as well.

A. Christian said:

I like the one God in three persons belief. Also it does get very close to we are not capable of understanding as well.

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Indeed the Trinity is One God, 3 Persons- the Biblical God, the True God !

Jesus is YHWH said:

Indeed the Trinity is One God, 3 Persons- the Biblical God, the True God !

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Now the question is what is the one God that is 3 people? And how can 3 people be the one true God?

A. Christian said:

Now the question is what is the one God that is 3 people? And how can 3 people be the one true God?

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how do the two become one flesh ?

how is Jesus both God and man having the nature of God and the nature of man, 2 natures ?

Jesus is YHWH said:

how do the two become one flesh ?

how is Jesus both God and man having the nature of God and the nature of man, 2 natures ?

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I'm getting a little confused. 2 become one flesh through marriage which is often used to describe our relationship with Jesus, however I have never seen it used to describe the Godhead's relationship with each other. And I dont think that one person (Jesus) having 2 natures really explains how one nature (God) has 3 people (the Godhead).

A. Christian said:

I'm getting a little confused. 2 become one flesh through marriage which is often used to describe our relationship with Jesus, however I have never seen it used to describe the Godhead's relationship with each other. And I dont think that one person (Jesus) having 2 natures really explains how one nature (God) has 3 people (the Godhead).

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God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are co-eternal, co-equal, and co-powerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self aware, the third person of the Trinity.

The word "person" is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.

Whats so hard to understand about God being Triune?
The Father is not the the Son. The Son is not the the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. God is a trinity of 3 Persons who are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Trinity is not three gods nor is the Trinity three beings. We call them "Persons" because each one of Them have a will, speak, teach, love, receive praise, prayer, share the same Glory, etc. These are all characteristics of person-hood. They are of one substance, nature, essence or Being. You cannot have the Father without the Son, the Son without the Father, The Son without the Holy Spirit or you would not have the God according to Scripture, you would have a false god or what is known as an idol.

hope this helps !!!

Jesus and The Apostles in their writings reveals the Father, Son and Holy Spirit working together in the believers life. They are distinct Persons within the One God.

John 15:26-27
26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

John 16:5-8
"But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, Where are You going?' 6"But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go,I will send Him to you. 8"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

John 16:13-15
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15"All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.


Matthew 3:16-17
16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."

Matt 28:19-20
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. "


Now below Paul will lay out our triune God below in these passages.


Romans 8:9-11
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Romans 8:14-17
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Romans 8:26-36
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; 34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 14:17-18
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.

1 Corinthians 2:10-16
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:3-6
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

hope this helps !!!

Jesus is YHWH said:

God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are co-eternal, co-equal, and co-powerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self aware, the third person of the Trinity.

The word "person" is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.

Whats so hard to understand about God being Triune?
The Father is not the the Son. The Son is not the the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. God is a trinity of 3 Persons who are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Trinity is not three gods nor is the Trinity three beings. We call them "Persons" because each one of Them have a will, speak, teach, love, receive praise, prayer, share the same Glory, etc. These are all characteristics of person-hood. They are of one substance, nature, essence or Being. You cannot have the Father without the Son, the Son without the Father, The Son without the Holy Spirit or you would not have the God according to Scripture, you would have a false god or what is known as an idol.

hope this helps !!!

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It does help me understand your view on the Godhead. And I have to say I agree with what you say, though I would prefer to say that they share the same infinite divine essence instead of substance. But that is just a semantic issue.

However, the importance that you seemed to place in previous posts on believing in the Trinity for salvation is not necessary in my opinion. Sure only a God with different people capable of suffering the separation of the cross can save people from that same separation. But regardless of whether people believe he is 3 persons or not, he is still that God that is able to save. All he wants us to believe is that he did indeed take that separation on himself so that we no longer have to be separated from him and this is a gift freely given.

A. Christian said:

It does help me understand your view on the Godhead. And I have to say I agree with what you say, though I would prefer to say that they share the same infinite divine essence instead of substance. But that is just a semantic issue.

However, the importance that you seemed to place in previous posts on believing in the Trinity for salvation is not necessary in my opinion. Sure only a God with different people capable of suffering the separation of the cross can save people from that same separation. But regardless of whether people believe he is 3 persons or not, he is still that God that is able to save. All he wants us to believe is that he did indeed take that separation on himself so that we no longer have to be separated from him and this is a gift freely given.

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just a follow up question.

Can a false god save one from their sins ?

Ephesians 1:3-14
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

From the above passage we can see the following truths regarding the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer.

Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Father in 1:3-6
Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Son in 1:7-12
Paul gives praise, glory and honor to the Holy Spirit in 1:13-14

1-Salvation is Assigned by the Father
2-Salvation is Achieved through the Son
3-Salvation is Active from the Holy Spirit

Hence once again we see the Trinity in Action in the life of the believer!

Summary: Salvation is administered and assigned by the Father, accomplished and achieved through the Son and applied and activated by the Holy Spirit. We see the Trinity( the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) in action for the Redemption of the believer. Amen !

hope this helps !!!

Jesus is YHWH said:

just a follow up question.

Can a false god save one from their sins ?

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No a false God cannot save someone from sin and death. But a misunderstood God can.

A. Christian said:

No a false God cannot save someone from sin and death. But a misunderstood God can.

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misunderstood definition: Incorrectly understood or interpreted.

so a misunderstood God can save ?

can a misunderstood gospel ?
can a misunderstood faith ?
can a misunderstood Jesus ?

Truth is truth. Can something untrue save ?

Why would Paul in Galatians 1 declare that any other gospel or Jesus than he has preached to let them be accursed ?

Jesus is YHWH said:

misunderstood definition: Incorrectly understood or interpreted.

so a misunderstood God can save ?

can a misunderstood gospel ?
can a misunderstood faith ?
can a misunderstood Jesus ?

Truth is truth. Can something untrue save ?

Why would Paul in Galatians 1 declare that any other gospel or Jesus than he has preached to let them be accursed ?

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No a misunderstood gospel cannot save. But there a difference between not understanding the divine nature of an infinite God and not understanding the very simple gospel that Jesus took the penalty for our sin so that we do not have to. Yes a misunderstood God can still save. His power is not limited by our understanding of it. Because if we were honest we would admit that none of us fully understand God. Salvation is given freely through grace, it is not obtained by our intellect or whether or not we can unravel the mysteries of God's infinite and divine nature.