Israel, Abraham, and Modern Times
- Thread starter mkgal1
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Ephesians 6:18
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Please quote the Scriptures which identify the Roman Catholic saints.
Then, since you don't think saints are needed, tell us why Paul would exhort us to waste our time "watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints".
Scripture assures me that I'm a saint.
How about you?
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This passagee says nothing about interruption of the OT prophecy. Something Paul does write in this chapter, however, is that there is ONE united People of God (and that's the mystery he's writing about):
Ephesians 3
6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus.
6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus.
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That may be the way it's framed by futurists.....but it wasn't "thru the fall of Israel" that the two groups (one of which *was* faithful Israel) became one. That happened through Christ....and their faith.
Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility
Ephesians 3:6
6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus.
For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has torn down the dividing wall of hostility
Ephesians 3:6
6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus.
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That's the belief Jesus was confronting when He said this (they believed they would always have God's protection....but there were also prophecies of the impending end of the Mosaic Covenant that they were ignoring):
John 8:39-42
Abraham is our father,” they replied.
“If you were children of Abraham,” said Jesus, “you would do the works of Abraham. 40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing. 41You are doing the works of your father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they declared. “Our only Father is God Himself.”42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on My own, but He sent Me.
Abraham is our father,” they replied.
“If you were children of Abraham,” said Jesus, “you would do the works of Abraham. 40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing. 41You are doing the works of your father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they declared. “Our only Father is God Himself.”42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on My own, but He sent Me.
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Look at how Romans 11 begins (we have to go back to chapter 10 to see why Paul wrote this....this is the tension that was occurring when Paul wrote this....it was a critical time of change):
Romans 11:1
I ask then, did God reject His people? Certainly not! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.
I ask then, did God reject His people? Certainly not! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.
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Jesus was confronting them on who they claimed to belong to. They were claiming to belong to Abraham (based on the Mosaic Covenant). Jesus was saying to them that because they didn't have the faith of Abraham..- and were rejecting Christ Jesus...they didn't belong to Abraham but to their father....the father of lies.
And that was the apostate part of Old Covenant Israel.....but Paul is from the faithful remnant:
Romans 11:1
I ask then, did God reject His people? Certainly not! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.
Jesus was warning the chief priests and elders of an impending change occurring (in their generation):I ask then, did God reject His people? Certainly not! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.
Matthew 21:43
"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.
"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.
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Again.....nothing said about interruption of prophecy....but you seem to be suggesting God's plan was thrown off course for a while. Is that what you're claiming?
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Guojing
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No, Ephesians 3:9 said this plan was hidden in God since the foundation of the world.
That was why, as I told you in the other thread, Jesus was not wrong/being a racist at all, in calling the gentile lady a dog.
He knew about the interruption of this timetable and knew that gentiles had to wait until Israel has the right of first refusal to Jesus, before being blessed by him.
Mark 7:27 is the clearest here
27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
He could not reveal it there and then of course.
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Guojing
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Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
I remember discussing this passage with others too. and somehow they are also able to conclude that right now, because they believe that Jesus is sitting on David's spiritual throne in heavenly Jerusalem and reigning now in a spiritual kingdom, there is also a spiritual wolf laying down with the spiritual lamb now in heaven. =)
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Not in the Greek.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5043: τέκνον
τέκνον, τέκνου, τό (τίκτω, τεκεῖν), from Homer down, the Sept. chiefly for בֵּן, sometimes for יֶלֶד, offspring; plural children;
a. properly, α. universally and without regard to sex, child: Mark 13:12; Luke 1:7; Acts 7:5; Revelation 12:4; plural, Matthew 7:11; Matthew 10:21; Matthew 15:26; Mark 7:27
Universally.
No mention or implication of "Jewish".
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