As Christians, do we worship God or Jesus?

1an · Sep 25, 2020

Maria Billingsley said:
Jesus Christ of Nazareth gave us a model prayer that begins with " Our Father".
Maybe take His advice. Be blessed.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3 KJV)

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14 KJV)

Jesus, otherwise known as the Word, the Alpha and Omega who existed before time began is the Father on earth. He was given an earthly name, but that does not change who he was in the beginning, who He is now and who he is for all eternity. Father and Son are one. Jesus is the Father in the flesh. If we pray to either God on earth or God in heaven we pray to the One God. For me I pray to the Son because He is not as remote, He did more for me than the Father by humbling himself, dying in my place, and being my Saviour. The Father who is spirit did none of those things except to dwell in Christ while the Redeemer was on earth, for indeed Body, Soul and Spirit are One in Christ Jesus.
.
.

1an · Sep 25, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Then he was not the son of God?

Was there a God in heaven as Christ prayed to him from the cross, or not?

Was Jesus praying to himself at that time?

People act as if they have such a great understanding of this, yet they leave a multitude of unanswered questions. It's no wonder some are confused about this as it makes no sense at all the way some present it.

To say Father and Son are not the same is to say Cliff Richard and Harry Rodger Webb are not the same. Only the name and location is different, the person is the same. They are One.

We know the singer better by his adopted name, and likewise we know God better by his name on earth. Jesus said, "If you had known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him." John 14:7

Kenny'sID · Sep 26, 2020

1an said:
To say Father and Son are not the same is to say Cliff Richard and Harry Rodger Webb are not the same. Only the name is different. They are One.

We know the singer better by his adopted name, and likewise we know God better by his new name.

Thats not the least bit clear. Jesus did not pray to himself, when he prayed, and that's just one of a thousand things that prove they are two separate beings. Jesus said to pray the lords prayer to the father, not to him, and in that he separated the two...proof positive they are individuals.

They are the father and his son, Jesus.
They are one in that they are like minded.

No man cometh unto the father but through me. Two people, the father, and me. Do I really need to go on?

Strong in Him · Sep 26, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Thats not the least bit clear. Jesus did not pray to himself, when he prayed, and that's just one of a thousand things that prove they are two separate beings. Jesus said to pray the lords prayer to the father, not to him, and in that he separated the two...proof positive they are individuals.

They are the father and his son, Jesus.
They are one in that they are like minded.

No man cometh unto the father but through me. Two people, the father, and me. Do I really need to go on?

THREE individuals; ONE God.
The Father is God.
Jesus is God.
The Spirit is God.

1an · Sep 26, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Thats not the least bit clear. Jesus did not pray to himself, when he prayed, and that's just one of a thousand things that prove they are two separate beings. Jesus said to pray the lords prayer to the father, not to him, and in that he separated the two...proof positive they are individuals.

They are the father and his son, Jesus.
They are one in that they are like minded.

No man cometh unto the father but through me. Two people, the father, and me. Do I really need to go on?

In the next verse Jesus says, If you had known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him." John 14:7
.

Jipsah · Sep 26, 2020

ImAllLikeOkWaitWat said:
Worship God.

Jesus is God Incarnate

steppinrazor · Sep 26, 2020

ISteveB said:
Hi Brady.

Have you ever read Hebrews?

Here's an excerpt from chapter 1.
I encourage you to read it very closely.
Hebrews 1 :: New King James Version (NKJV)

God’s Supreme Revelation
(cf. John 1:1–4 )
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
The Son Exalted Above Angels
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You” ?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son” ?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”
7 And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

We don't worship Jesus because he's not God.
We worship him because the Father says to worship him.
Here's some more for you.
According to Colossians 1:16-19, Jesus created everything.
According to John 1:3, Jesus created everything.
According to Ephesians 3:9, Jesus created everything.
According to Genesis 1:1, and Psalms 33:6-9 God created everything.

According to Isaiah 43:10-11, God is Savior, and there is no other.
According to Hosea 13:4, God is Savior, and there is no other.

According to Titus 1:3-4, God is Savior, and Jesus is Savior.
According to Titus 2:10, and Titus 2:13, Jesus is Savior, and God is Savior.
According to Titus 3:4, and Titus 3:6, God is our Savior, and Jesus is our Savior.

WE then have Isaiah 45:23, Every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess to God.
Philippians 2:10-11, every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father.

So.... we do not worship Jesus because we think it's something special.
We worship him because the Father says to.

6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

That...right there...is why I log into this place. Cheers

HappyHope · Sep 26, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Worshipping Jesus is fine. It is Biblical. God has made the Lord Jesus to be king of kings and Lord of Lords. He has the name above all names. People worshipped Lord Jesus while He was on earth. Never did he rebuke them.

This article is one of many that explain why we should worship Lord Jesus: Is It Appropriate to Worship Jesus?

Great article

HappyHope · Sep 26, 2020

steppinrazor said:
My wife and I were having dinner this evening and we started talking about our church and the music. While talking, I mentioned that I had to read the lyrics before singing because I was very careful to not worship Jesus.
The church we attend is southern baptist and it great, but I definitely disagree with some of the music and prayers I hear where people are..basically...worshiping Jesus. Now sure, I know trinity and all that..but we are to workship God, not Jesus.
In my head, God is our father, Jesus is our savior, and the holy spirit moves in all things. All three work to make each other possible, but through and through..Jesus is my savior, my leader, and my friend while God is my God.

What say you oh mighty Christian forums? Thanks and God Bless....
brady

I used to use “God” exclusively in most of my worshipful Facebook posts over a decade ago (and 2-3 Facebook accounts ago.) It offended a pastor friend that I did not use “Jesus”. Maybe my understanding of the Trinity was wobbly. I knew Christ was more than a stepping stone for mankind to get to God the Father but it was not apparent I guess. It is important that you give Christ all the reverence due him.

A good study of the 4 Gospels can help illumination Christ as a man but the Bible gives us a much bigger picture of him in the OT and Revelation. Some people benefit more from digging into the godly appearances of Christ in the Old Testament (Christophanies) or in his glorified state in Revelation. If Jesus as a man doesn't speak to you as much, perhaps seeing him in the Old Testament or in Revelation will help. Revelation lights up Christ in very glorious and fearful ways. Worshiping him is definitely in order. Blessings!! Great question!!!

Kenny'sID · Sep 26, 2020

Strong in Him said:
THREE individuals; ONE God.
The Father is God.
Jesus is God.
The Spirit is God.

Show me where the bible is clear on that, please.

Kenny'sID · Sep 26, 2020

1an said:
In the next verse Jesus says, If you had known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him." John 14:7
.

Exactly as I've been saying, they are of the same mind, if we know one, we know the other.

1an · Sep 26, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Exactly as I've been saying, they are of the same mind, if we know one, we know the other.

Are you sure that is what you said, here are your words

"Thats not the least bit clear. Jesus did not pray to himself, when he prayed, and that's just one of a thousand things that prove they are two separate beings. Jesus said to pray the lords prayer to the father, not to him, and in that he separated the two...proof positive they are individuals.

They are the father and his son, Jesus.
They are one in that they are like minded.

No man cometh unto the father but through me. Two people, the father, and me. Do I really need to go on?"

I put it to you that Jesus is, "The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6 KJV)

.

Kenny'sID · Sep 26, 2020

1an said:
Are you sure that is what you said, here are your words

"Thats not the least bit clear. Jesus did not pray to himself, when he prayed, and that's just one of a thousand things that prove they are two separate beings. Jesus said to pray the lords prayer to the father, not to him, and in that he separated the two...proof positive they are individuals.

They are the father and his son, Jesus.
They are one in that they are like minded.

No man cometh unto the father but through me. Two people, the father, and me. Do I really need to go on?"
.

No, that's what I've been saying or said in this thread, not necessarily in my reply to you

Jipsah · Sep 26, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Thats not the least bit clear. Jesus did not pray to himself, when he prayed, and that's just one of a thousand things that prove they are two separate beings. Jesus said to pray the lords prayer to the father, not to him, and in that he separated the two...proof positive they are individuals.

I'm sure your logic is impeccable. but unfortunately that isn't what Christians believe. Jesus is God Incarnate.

Kenny'sID · Sep 26, 2020

Jipsah said:
I'm sure your logic is impeccable. but unfortunately that isn't what Christians believe. Jesus is God Incarnate.[/QUOT

Where is

And Christ praying to himself is impecable logic?

1an · Sep 26, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
And Christ praying to himself is impecable logic?

You have to remember that within Jesus dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9), so it is perfectly logical for the human, physical side of Jesus to pray and talk with the one who gave him life here on earth.
.

Strong in Him · Sep 27, 2020

Kenny'sID said:
Show me where the bible is clear on that, please.

Genesis 1:26
"God said, ' let us make man in our image'." The word for God here is plural, so there is more than one person in the Godhead, but only one God. Same with Isaiah 6:8, "who shall we send; who will go for us?"
John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning".
V 14 "the Word became flesh and lived among us."
Colossians 1:15, Hebrews 1:3 - the Son is the exact image of God and all things were made through him.
John 17:5, "Father, give me the glory I had with you before the world began."
Jesus said "if you have seen me you have seen the Father", John 14:9-10.
Jesus used the name of God while he was on earth; I AM. On several occasions he was nearly stoned for claiming to be God, John 5:18, John 8:58-59, John 10:33. He was crucified for blasphemy.

In the beginning the Spirt of God hovered over the waters, Genesis 1:3, so he, too, is eternal.
In the OT the Spirit is always the Spirit of the Lord.
The Holy Spirit makes it possible for us to be born again, John 3:3, and assures us that we are children of God, John 1:12, Romans 8:16. The Holy Spirit draws us to Jesus who gives us eternal life, John 16:14.
The Spirit is transforming us into Jesus' image, 2 Corinthians 3:18. And the Spirit intercedes for us when we do not know what to pray for, Romans 8:27, because he knows the mind of God.

If the Father, isn't God, that would mean that we were created by an angel, or something, and the Scriptures that say that we were created by God, are wrong.
If Jesus wasn't God, then it was a man and only a man who died on the cross. If he had been able to live perfect life by his own efforts, then that means it is possible for us too - and he would never have needed to come to earth. Peter called Jesus the spotless lamb, chosen from the creation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20.
If the Spirit isn't God, then he has no power to give us a new nature, make us God's children, convict us of sin and cause us to be born again. And Jesus would have been wrong to call him the Spirit of truth, if he was, in fact, an imposter.
Also, if the Spirit is not God, we do not have God living in us, but some angel or other kind of being.

The Father, Son and Spirit are all God - and there is only ONE God.

CaspianSails · Sep 28, 2020

steppinrazor said:
My wife and I were having dinner this evening and we started talking about our church and the music. While talking, I mentioned that I had to read the lyrics before singing because I was very careful to not worship Jesus.
The church we attend is southern baptist and it great, but I definitely disagree with some of the music and prayers I hear where people are..basically...worshiping Jesus. Now sure, I know trinity and all that..but we are to workship God, not Jesus.
In my head, God is our father, Jesus is our savior, and the holy spirit moves in all things. All three work to make each other possible, but through and through..Jesus is my savior, my leader, and my friend while God is my God.

What say you oh mighty Christian forums? Thanks and God Bless....
brady

Is there a difference?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,a]">[a] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own,b]">[b] and his own peoplec]">[c] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Sond]">[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jesus said, I and my Father am one. And, if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

Kenny'sID · Sep 28, 2020

Mike McKinney said:
Only if one denies the deity of Christ and the hypostatic union, which would place them FAR outside the bounds of orthodoxy.

Because of something called the Hypostatic Union, which means that Jesus is both fully God and fully man and that, while never relinquishing His deity, submits His humanity to God the Father.

Shame on your church for allowing you to become a member while denying the Trinity.

And shame on you for trusting in a tradition of men over the logic of the bible which screams they are separate beings.

1an · Sep 28, 2020

CaspianSails said:
Is there a difference?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life,a]">[a] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own,b]">[b] and his own peoplec]">[c] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Sond]">[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jesus said, I and my Father am one. And, if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

No difference at all. Jesus is GOD with us.

As Christians, do we worship God or Jesus?

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Great is thy faithfulness

Newbie

Blood Drinker

Philippians 4:8, Proverbs 3:6

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Blood Drinker

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Great is thy faithfulness

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Similar threads