Do we have to abide in the Messiah and obey Him to enter the kingdom?

I beleive so and here are a few passages why I think this way. I would like to hear others views on this matter and ask that Scripture is used.

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you.”

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

Daniel9v9 said:

To believe in Jesus means to trust in the person and works of Jesus Christ. This is what saves us. From this then, obedience follows, which are the good fruit of the Holy Spirit. Namely, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control - or in a word, love for God and love for our neighbour.

To illustrate this using John 15, a person either is or isn't part of the tree. If he is, then he will bear good fruit. So in this way, we are not saved by our obedience - for we are not saved by works, but by faith - but obedience is the result of being saved. Very simply, God doesn't need our good works, but our neighbour does. And it's through loving our neighbour that we love God. But this does not cause nor sustain salvation, but is the blessed result of salvation - being molded into the image of Christ. And so, we are created in Christ for good works.

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Thank you for the reply. I particularly like the J15 views, Yahshua is indeed our base and foundation, w/o Him we can do nothing.

I want to add I believe none will see the kingdom w/o mercy from YHWH. However our works do seem to matter, I see the issue as any verse that says this is ignored or twisted by most. How to you reconcile these passages?

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Mat 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

2 John 1:9-11, “Everyone who is transgressing and not staying in the teaching of Messiah does not possess the Mighty One. The one who stays in the teaching of Messiah possesses both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house nor greet him, for he who greets him shares in his wicked works.”

Jeshu said:

i understand this process to happen in part within us. At times we die to self and find new life in Christ, then we find ourselves to be His Sheep, but at other times we don't do that, we let go of Christ and hold onto self and prove to be a goat.

This is why i believe very much in the election of the heart, and that the goat and sheep parable in Matthew 25 is talking about one person just as much as many people. God's truth is always true.

Now we know ourselves if we are in the faith or outside of it. When love for God and neighbour dominates our hearts then we hear His voice and follow Him, but if on the other hand, at another time, we refuse to heed His voice, then in such self we will perish.

Please don't expect sinful self to be in Heaven when we die a believer in Him, sin is completely done away with in heaven. So if we kept a little corner of our heart for ourselves, to enjoy sin, then Jesus will know all about that self and cut that self out of our spirit with the word of His mouth. Hebrews 4:12-13

It is about serving Jesus with our whole heart Psalm 86 teaches us. A challenge most Christians i know don't seem to think about in their daily walk of life.

Peace.

An invitation to The Chosen.

God's Love will not take or will
you to conform to rules or demand
which imprison, enslave, burn or kill you.

God's Love will not pervert what's Good
The Lord loves truthfully Wise and Good.
True Love was, is and always will be Good!

In God's Love you are free to be right!
In His love everything is good proper and kind.
He loves all who love good and true to rule!

His Love is caring, providing, and sharing.
His Love always enjoys and protects good life.
His love rules even when bad life has being in us!

Hear Jesus call - 'Come join up with us all!
Leave whatever ties you down and be free
loving good life with all God's own to be.'

To the rest in your heart God's asks
how long will you tarry in the darkness?
Please leave such bad existence within.

For life must not, no never should, or would, or could,
be forceful, rude, prideful, arrogant, selfish, lustful
or otherwise be untrue to God's loving truth.

Neither should life be hurting or ill,
hungry, oppressed, despised, hated
or otherwise have existence in wrong.

Please hand your Bad Life over to Jesus
Humbly ask for His Good Life back in return
and go love God, self and neighbour with Joy.

The Church knows that Jesus is coming soon
All bad life will be our shameful past then,
so please leave your bad life while you can!

Love

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Thank you for this and praiseYah!

Psalms 86:5-6,For You, יהוה, are good, and ready to forgive, And great in loving-commitment to all those who call upon You. Give ear, O יהוה, to my prayer; And listen to the voice of my pleadings.

Psalms 118:19-22, “Open to me the gates of righteousness; I enter through them, I thank Yah. This is the gate of יהוה, The righteous enter through it. I thank You, For You have answered me, And have become my salvation. The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner-stone.”

Aussie Pete said:

Yes. A person must be born again even to see the Kingdom of God. The first step of obedience is to accept God's judgement that we are sinners and that the Lord Jesus is the only one who can save us. From that time on, we are called to obey the Lord Jesus. It's not easy as there are many conflicting attitudes within us. We will fail many times. That's why we need the cleansing of the blood of Christ regularly. It gets easier as we progress. We resist God's will less and cooperate more fully. The Christian life is not measured by how much we gain but how much we lose. If we are willing to lose self, more of Christ will be expressed. That is what our time on earth is all about. Like John the Baptist said, "I must decrease, He must increase".

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Wonderful insight!!! Thank you for this and another praise to Yah!

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

BobRyan said:

Paul makes a statement about those who "do not obey the gospel" in 2 Thess 1:8 -- so I am inclined to agree with your post.

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In Galatians Paul even says Peter, James and John only appear to be (dokeo) pillars of the faith, and in context says they are teaching another gospel. I quoted it below, look at verse 14

The underlined words in red; “seemed to be” are translated from this word: #G1380 - dokeó: to have an opinion, to seem, Original Word: δοκέω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: dokeó, Phonetic Spelling: (dok-eh'-o), Short Definition: I think, seem, appear, it seems, Definition: I think, seem, appear, it seems.

#G1380 δοκέω dokeo (d̮o-ke'-ō) v., 1. to suppose, consider, imagine., 2. (by implication) to seem (truthfully or uncertainly)., 3. (by inference) to presume., 4. (also) to repute or estimate., 5. (by extension) to be of reputation, estimable. {(used only in an alternate in certain tenses)} [a prolonged form of a primary verb, δόκω dốkō of the same meaning], KJV: be accounted, (of own) please(-ure), be of reputation, seem (good), suppose, think, trow, Compare: G1166, G1209, G2309, G3543, G3049, G5426, See also: G1384

English Standard Version
and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

#G1380 δοκέω dokeo (d̮o-ke'-ō) v., 1. to suppose, consider, imagine., 2. (by implication) to seem (truthfully or uncertainly)., 3. (by inference) to presume., 4. (also) to repute or estimate., 5. (by extension) to be of reputation, estimable. {(used only in an alternate in certain tenses)} [a prolonged form of a primary verb, δόκω dốkō of the same meaning], KJV: be accounted, (of own) please(-ure), be of reputation, seem (good), suppose, think, trow, Compare: G1166, G1209, G2309, G3543, G3049, G5426, See also: G1384

Galatians 2:4-14, " 4 Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— 5 to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. 6 And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. 7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do. 11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party. 13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

Daniel9v9 said:

Sure, no problem. There's no difficulty or inconsistency here, but there are a few things to bear in mind. First of all, I'd like to point out that before God no one is righteous. We are all children of wrath and dead in sin. We cannot merit our salvation. We are not saved by works of the Law, but by faith. This is very explicit from Romans and Galatians, and is the entire point and essence of the Gospel - that God redeems us, because we cannot redeem ourselves.

We can briefly go through the verses you quoted one by one:

John 5 - This is being said in the context of "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to those he wishes.", and "Anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life." Meaning, salvation is from God, not from us. We add nothing. It means that whoever does not honour the Son does not honour the Father, but we honour the Son by trusting in His promise of forgiveness of sins and in His finished work. He fulfilled the Law and suffered the full wrath of God in our place, so that we too, may die and raise together with Christ, and be clothed in His righteousness. That is, through faith, we are counted as righteous. So, those who have done good - by virtue of being in Christ - have life, and those who do evil - by virtue of rejecting God's grace through their sin and rebellion - are already condemned. As John 3:18 says: "The one who believes in him is not condemned, but the one who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God."

Matthew 5 - God will pay back everyone according to their deeds. The wicked will perish on account of their evil works and rejection of God's grace. The good - by virtue of being redeemed by Christ - receive the benefit of being in Christ. Later in Matthew our Lord says: “Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me. Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward. Whoever receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man’s reward. Whoever gives one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink because he is my disciple—Amen I tell you—he will never lose his reward.” This is to say, our reward is through Christ. We inherit Christ's reward.

2 John 1 - This does not mean that we must keep the Law in order to be saved, but that through Christ, we do uphold the Law and proclaim the Gospel, in accordance with God's Word and the Holy Spirit.

There's a lot that can be said about these things, but I think the most efficient explanation or clearest overview Holy Scriptures give us regarding our salvation and its relation to works are found in Ephesians 2. It should all be read in context, but v 8-10 says:

"Indeed, it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared in advance so that we would walk in them."

That is:
1. We are saved by grace through faith, not works. It's entirely a gift from God.

2. We are created in Christ. That is, we do not create ourselves in Christ, nor do we work in order to be created in Christ, but just as our physical life is a gift from God, so our spiritual life is also a gift from God.

3. We are created in Christ for good works. This is our purpose that God has designed us for. But it has no bearing on our salvation, for our salvation has already been achieved by the person and works of our Lord Jesus Christ, and this is apprehended through faith, not works, lest anyone should boast.

So, salvation is from God, and all who are in Christ bear good fruit as a result of the Holy Spirit regenerating us through the Word. Or to put it a bit more forcefully, we don't start in the Spirit and finish in the flesh (Galatians 3:3), as if Christ's work was insufficient.

We are saved by grace through faith. Hope this helps. The peace of Christ +

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I fully agree none will stand before YHWH and live without His mercy. However I feel there is a key fact you are leaving out, and I know there is so much Scripture we cant include all of it every post, but the Spirit empowerment spoken of here:

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

His Spirit makes us love His law not reject it and call it done away or bad in any way. Im not saying you claim that as I dont fully know your views, but Him giving us strength to love and walk in His laws can not be ignored.

Sabertooth said:

Yes, but "abiding" includes repenting when He convicts us have sin, not just doing everything right the first time.

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Indeed, and through many erros, if we still seek Him I think He will strengthen us continually!

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Jeremiah 24:7, “And I shall give them a heart to know Me, that I am יהוה. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength, for they shall turn back to Me with all their heart.”

Tone said:

"Do we have to abide in the Messiah and obey Him to enter the kingdom?".

Where is the kingdom?

Like 17:21
"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

How did this happen?

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The verses I quoted in the last few posts, empowerment by the Holy Spirit

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Jeremiah 24:7, “And I shall give them a heart to know Me, that I am יהוה. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength, for they shall turn back to Me with all their heart.”

bling said:

To what “degree” are you talking about in obedience are you doing exactly what Jesus would do in your shoes?

What happens if we quench the Spirit for just a moment?

What happens if we quench the Spirit for days at a time?

How are you defining “obey”?

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Well I think every situation is different and I can not answer 100% definitively because He is the judge and His thoughts are beyond our thoughts, but the way I see it is like a marathon, not where a single choice makes or breaks us but a lifetimes of choices move us in one direction or the other.

I define obey as doing ANYTHING the Most High says to do, from the 2 greatest commandments that all the Law hangs on to something for the individual person that He has led them to do.