A Question For The Catholics (but anybody can answer)

April_Rose said:

Do you think these kinds of things are wrong or not? I sort of think that it's a bit weird and creepy to tell you the truth.

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I don't see what's "wrong" with it. And if his body is incorrupt, that can be a sign of holiness. In the case of Padre Pio, holiness can be assumed. But the incorruptibility is still a useful sign.

Incorruptibility - Wikipedia

April_Rose said:

Hmm,.. that's interesting. (Like I said I just sort of found it creepy but what do I know lol) Anyways is the woman in the picture Jesus' mother?

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???

What woman in what picture?

Catholics believe that Our Lady was assumed bodily into Heaven. So her earthly remains cannot be shown like Padre Pio and others are.

April_Rose said:

Do you think these kinds of things are wrong or not? I sort of think that it's a bit weird and creepy to tell you the truth.

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from: Here's Why The Preserved Body Of This Catholic Saint Is Hitting The Road | HuffPost

"The body of one of the most popular Roman Catholic saints, the mystic monk Padre Pio, began an overland journey in a crystal coffin on Wednesday to go on display at the Vatican.

The Capuchin monk who died in 1968 and is said by the Catholic Church to have had the “stigmata” - the bleeding wounds of Jesus on his hands and feet - was exhumed in 2008 in San Giovanni Rotondo, the small, southeastern Italian town where he spent most of his life.

His body was partially reconstructed with a life-like silicone mask and preserved in a large, temperature-controlled glass reliquary so the faithful could view it."

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As you point out - some people are opposed to having his body on display and on tour.

April_Rose said:

In the Wikipedia article you posted.

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The top of the article shows a picture of the body of Mary of Jesus de León y Delgado, a Dominican mystic who exhibited a wide range of miracles in her lifetime. She has a pretty interesting story and I think she's being investigated for sainthood by the Catholic Church.

But obviously, she has nothing to do with Our Lady.

thecolorsblend said:

???

What woman in what picture?

Catholics believe that Our Lady was assumed bodily into Heaven. So her earthly remains cannot be shown like Padre Pio and others are.

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(Not the I would have anything against the idea that someone would be bodily resurrected and then bodily assumed into heaven - as was likely the case with all those resurrected in Matthew 27)

But history indicates that Mary died in Ephesus under the care of the Apostle John.

Even so: we have this - Tomb of Mary « See The Holy Land.

"The New Testament says nothing about the death and burial of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, but a strong Christian tradition places her tomb in a dimly-lit church at the foot of the Mount of Olives.
The large crypt containing the empty tomb in the Church of the Assumption is all that remains of an early 5th-century church, making it possibly the oldest near-complete religious building in Jerusalem. "

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When did Mary die? How did Mary die? | GotQuestions.org
"In the early 1800s, Catholic mystic Catherine Emmerich had a vision in which she claimed to have seen Mary’s final minutes. In her vision, Catherine describes the apostles’ presence at Mary’s deathbed, Peter’s administering of the Mass and extreme unction to Mary, her death (at the same hour as Jesus had died), her spirit’s ascension into heaven (accompanied by many souls released from purgatory), her burial, and her body’s assumption the following night. We have absolutely no reason to believe anything that Catherine Emmerich claims to have seen in her extra-biblical (and very Catholic) visions.

In the end, we must accept the fact that we do not have any information concerning Mary’s later life or her death. The focus of the Bible is Jesus’ death and resurrection"

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My personal belief from the facts of the Bible is that
1. John was given charge of taking care of Mary by Jesus Himself as He was dying on the cross.
2. John took Mary to Ephesus where she died.
3. Mary was older than John and John lived until almost the end of the first century.
4. IF Mary's death had been even 1 iota out of "the norm" John would have written about it to let the church know that she experienced some singular event at her death, or before her death, or after her death. He did not mention anything at all in that regard - and the last book he wrote was the Gospel of John - written in Ephesus -- after the death of Mary.
His silence on that subject speaks volumes.
5. By contrast those that do believe some rather singular and significant things about Mary's death or assumption or resurrection or .... consider it a detail well worth mentioning -- as they should.

BobRyan said:

(Not the I would have anything against the idea that someone would be bodily resurrected and then bodily assumed into heaven - as was likely the case with all those resurrected in Matthew 27)

But history indicates that Mary died in Ephesus under the care of the Apostle John.

Even so: we have this - Tomb of Mary « See The Holy Land.

"The New Testament says nothing about the death and burial of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, but a strong Christian tradition places her tomb in a dimly-lit church at the foot of the Mount of Olives.
The large crypt containing the empty tomb in the Church of the Assumption is all that remains of an early 5th-century church, making it possibly the oldest near-complete religious building in Jerusalem.
"

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My one comment on this subject in this thread will be that Pope Pius XII invoked papal infallibility when he said "We proclaim and define it to be a dogma revealed by God that the immaculate Mother of God, Mary ever virgin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven."

In that declaration, it is clear that Pius was not stating whether she died at all. It is possible that she passed away and then her body was taken into Heaven. Alternatively, she could've been on the brink of death and was taken to Heaven before she died. In either case, it's reasonable to think that a tomb might have been selected for her. The fact that a tomb might exist says nothing about whether or not she spent any time in it.

If you have a response to this, create a new thread and perhaps I will join you there.

thecolorsblend said:

My one comment on this subject in this thread will be that Pope Pius XII invoked papal infallibility when he said "We proclaim and define it to be a dogma revealed by God that the immaculate Mother of God, Mary ever virgin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven."

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noted... "papal infallibility" --

Out of curiosity - what words were used to indicate that the statement being made was an infallible ex cathedra statement?

I have to admit, I used to find it weird.

But the Saints are souls who followed Christ while in the flesh with special strength, love, humility, and wisdom. Protestants have their own spiritual giants, too.

So, their bodies remain holy, and objects of love, and devotion. They followed Christ with those bodies, those bodies will live again, and even in Scripture, God works miracles through human remains. So, it’s a thing.

2 Kings 13:20-21

BobRyan said:

Out of curiosity - what words were used to indicate that the statement being made was an infallible ex cathedra statement?

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I wrote...

thecolorsblend said:

If you have a response to this, create a new thread and perhaps I will join you there.

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Was that too subtle?

thecolorsblend said:

If you have a response to this, create a new thread and perhaps I will join you there.

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Ok .. will do - but I will start it with your quote since I do believe that what you said is a belief shared by a great many Catholics, so it is not just a one-off one-person's view.

April_Rose said:

Hmm,.. that's interesting. (Like I said I just sort of found it creepy but what do I know lol) Anyways is the woman in the picture Jesus' mother?

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Hey, it's creepy. It is. It's oddly true too. He's not the only incorruptible by any means. And it is probably a sign of sanctity. A sign for us.

thecolorsblend said:

If you have a response to this, create a new thread and perhaps I will join you there.

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ok thread started here -- Yesterday at 9:32 PM #1

April_Rose said:

Do you think these kinds of things are wrong or not? I sort of think that it's a bit weird and creepy to tell you the truth.

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By the way, speaking in tongues is weird too. We Christians know how to do weird.

April_Rose said:

Do you think these kinds of things are wrong or not? I sort of think that it's a bit weird and creepy to tell you the truth.

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I would say to search the scriptures to see if it so. Find the scriptures that advocate people considered to be holy should be turned into a popsicle, wheeled about and their remains venerated.

lismore said:

I would say to search the scriptures to see if it so. Find the scriptures that advocate people considered to be holy should be turned into a popsicle, wheeled about and their remains venerated.

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Start with the last chapter of Genesis.