Riots Riots Everywhere
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You're not comparing apples to apples. At all.
For police, you're using interactions as your basis for % of wrongdoing. X number of issues in Y number of interactions.
For protesters, you're using whole protests as the basis. X number of protests have violence out of Y number of protests.
If you're comparing apples to apples, it would be X number of police precincts have had problems reported out of Y number of total police precincts. I guarantee you that that percentage is closer to (or higher than) 7%.
Conversely, you could talk about the number of protesters engaging in violence based on the frequency of their interactions. If a protester interacts with 100 people in the day and only assaults one of them, then he's only 1% bad based on your police metric. Of course, this metric is ludicrous on its face, but that's exactly the metric you use for police. Now that same protester interacts with 50 people a day for a month. Suddenly, that 1 time he assaults someone is down to .07% of his total interactions. If he only assaults 1 person per year, then he's down to .01%. By your metric, this protester that assaulted someone isn't even a problem because he does it so infrequently.
Moreover, you use the threshold for "bad protestor" as "violence of any sort (including property damage) having occurred, while the metric for "bad police officer" is "having been convicted of unjustly killing someone". You're giving cops who abuse their authority in lesser ways a free pass. Below is an example in which 32 Omaha cops abused their authority. Roughing up a guy who didn't like that he was getting a parking ticket, assaulting his brother who videotaped them doing it, illegally entering that person's home to do it, destroying the evidence. All of this bad action (which you would certainly count toward "bad protestor" if they assaulted someone) doesn't even measure on your basis for "cops are good" simply because they didn't unjustly kill someone in that scenario.
Extreme Overuse of Force by Omaha PD
People have a legitimate complaint against the police. Your absurd framing of the statistics doesn't prove your case, it just shows it's a dishonest conversation.
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Rather than continue our argument over which is worse over all, I will just concede that those riots you mention are worse than today's. Especially in the terms of loss of human life.
I'll say today's are the second worse time. How's that.
I I appreciate that you say the riots if today are unjustified.
So I will answer your question. I believe that some of the reasons people are protesting peacefully are justified. Some are not. There has absolutely been a false narrative in much of the entire process now. But marching for equal justice when it comes to sentencing then I believe that is justified. Marching to end racism is always a good reason to march.
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DaisyDay
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I wasn't arguing over which is worse, I was disputing your contention that the present troubles are unlike anything we've ever seen, ever.
Okay.
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According to the criteria the shootings don't have to happen during rioting. It doesn't appear that rioting is the only criteria.
The reasons you provide for the violence are pure speculation. And irrelevant. Because it's NY job to do something about it regardless of the reasons. And the reasons you cite are a direct reason why you shouldn't cut the police budget and try to limit them.
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ZNP
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Well how about the $10 billion shortfall the city is going to see as a result of the Pandemic? (I didn't know I was supposed to be giving you reasons why they were cutting the budget.)
How are they going to make up this gap? Stop collecting garbage? Stop teaching kids?
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Sorry, forgot about this one. 
Depends. You are going to have to find a fair amount of evidence to convince me that news organizations are making decisions on what to show with ideology as a over riding decision factor.
They always had a target audience. It is just become more specialized and niche of late.
There are indeed broad concepts that the group agrees with I am certain. That does not mean the group stands in lock step with everything spoken. They agree that there are issues of race and I'm sure they agree gentrification happens and is an issue. That does not mean they agree white people have to give up their property.
OK. Now can you tell me why these means you are to blame for everything wrong? It seems to me even if you conclude from this that they are saying all whites are to blame the only specific I see this in context with is racism.
Shocked am I.
Why not? You have heard "Set a thief to catch a thief"? If he has paid his debt and shown a solid work ethic towards correcting issues in society why should he not be allowed to work for the public good in the public sector?
Depends. You are going to have to find a fair amount of evidence to convince me that news organizations are making decisions on what to show with ideology as a over riding decision factor.
They always had a target audience. It is just become more specialized and niche of late.
There are indeed broad concepts that the group agrees with I am certain. That does not mean the group stands in lock step with everything spoken. They agree that there are issues of race and I'm sure they agree gentrification happens and is an issue. That does not mean they agree white people have to give up their property.
OK. Now can you tell me why these means you are to blame for everything wrong? It seems to me even if you conclude from this that they are saying all whites are to blame the only specific I see this in context with is racism.
Shocked am I.
Why not? You have heard "Set a thief to catch a thief"? If he has paid his debt and shown a solid work ethic towards correcting issues in society why should he not be allowed to work for the public good in the public sector?
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only a sojourner
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A certain portion of the demonstrators are connected with the Black Bloc movement which includes anarcho- communists and other similar groups. They were active in the WTO violent WTO demonstrations in Seattle in 1999. These groups are strongest on the West Coast, especially Seattle and Porrtand and comprise the violent element in many of these demonstrations. Those demonstrating across the country are diverse, the broad majority are peaceful.
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Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
Sorry, forgot about this one.
No need to apologize...I do the same all the time .
What would you consider evidence? If I showed you, for example, the NYT suddenly began talking a lot about progressive racial issues/politics after 2010 (let's say, many times more than it did from 2000-2010) would you consider it evidence that they're catering to a younger progressive crowd?
And yet you seem reluctant to admit that "news" sources now write with a bias towards the narrative of their target audience.
I'm sure there's some very fine people in that crowd lol.
Did you read the first article? It basically says that everything wrong with the US is the fault of white men.
You're right that most of the other articles frame the problem as "white men are inherently racist/sexist/bigoted/etc.". That's awfully racist in of itself....but they use that racist assumption to blame white men for everything else. Not enough female CEOs? Blame white men. Crime devastating the black community? White men are at fault. Can't afford your healthcare/student loan? The problem is white men.
It's the same song for almost a decade now....it's getting old.
Shocked am I.
At least I'm honest lol.
Again, working in the public sector is not the issue ...
He sexually victimized underage girls...for profit. I don't really trust his policy advice when it comes to "community relations". I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to have a job....I'm saying that taxpayer money shouldn't go to a man whose primary skills are exploiting the most vulnerable through charm and intimidation.
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I think we might not be on the same page here. I agree that news caters to certain bias. That is inevitable with humans and is seeming to trend towards it's historical norm of being more prevalent. What I disagreed with you on was your claim that the news was suppressing stories in order to maintain that narrative. That is the one I have a hard time buying and would need evidence to convince me.
But do you understand my larger point? Just because a like minded group gathers does not mean they support every random thing someone might spout off.
I did but I did not have the same takeaway as you. I read it as a claim that for a representative democracy we are not representative of our population. For all of our history our leading bodies of governance have been populated by wealthy white men. It goes on to point out that conservatives in America have a distinct power advantage due to the way our system is constructed. This power imbalance is causing frustration among POC who do not feel their views are represented. That does not equal all problems are caused by white people.
I'm sorry but I just not seeing that. I think your bias is reading that claim into articles that are trying to address specific issues about representation.
"I don't hate my fellow man, even when he's tiresome and surly and tries to cheat at poker. I figure that's just a human material, and him that finds in it cause for anger and dismay is just a fool for expecting better." - Buster Scruggs
At what point in his climb to redemption do we allow him to say he has redeemed himself? His primary skills are not longer exploiting girls but his activism in bettering himself and his community through knowing his past mistakes and trying to correct them. It is not like he just got out of prison yesterday.
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Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
Bias is inevitable...but catering to a particular bias is a deliberate choice and not inevitable.
As for "suppressing" stories...that is a bit tougher. You asked why you hadn't seen the story I linked before...I offered an answer. It's true, I couldn't find the story reported by CNN for example...and that in itself doesn't even suggest anything. The thing is...if I do general searches on CNN for "racist rants" or "racial harassment"...I'll find all kinds of stories on a random encounter between two people where one said something racist.
I understand your point...do you understand why it's a bad point? Surely the people in the group knew what they were going to do that night. Why would I give them the benefit of the doubt otherwise? They chose to join the group, to support the group, and to go protest with the group. If the group had unexpectedly showed up outside these residences and began spouting about stuff they didn't agree with...they could have left.
They could have just walked away.
We vote on representatives....they represent us. What the article is saying is that somehow, people would have better outcomes from their representatives if those representatives were increasingly of a non-white skin color and/or female....right?
That's what you mean by "we are not representative of the population"....right? If that's not what you mean, please reword it.
I think we're seeing the same thing. I think that the argument is being made that people would have better outcomes if their representatives looked more like them.
Is that what you're seeing?
Keep your expectations low and you'll never be disappointed.
If a teacher was convicted of a crime involving their students...served their time...and then applied for a position advising the school district/board/etc on policy regarding the students...would you hire them?
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Ana the Ist
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There is no apples to apples comparison...so this is an odd complaint.
Ok....
That doesn't really work though....because precincts operate 24/7....protests last a day.
Your attempt at making this a more even comparison is garbage.
Sure...but why would we use that metric? As far as I can tell, protesting requires no violence at all...being a cop requires you to use force, sometimes violently, as a necessary part of the job.
Actually, after reading the report....I can't tell what metric was used to declare a protest "violent". From what I gathered....they looked at 2700 protests...and other sources claim there have been 630+ riots declared so far in 2020. That makes me think their threshold for that 93% number is actually quite high. If they looked at every single time a protester committed an act of violence....we'd have a much higher percentage. If they counted every time a protest was declared a riot....it would be over 20% of protests.
We're also giving protesters who indirectly caused violence a pass as well. If a protest blocks traffic to the point where police can't respond in a timely manner to a violent crime....that's partly the fault of the protesters.
Your absurd attempt at reframing the statistics just shows how biased you are. If you think that people have a legitimate complaint about the police, let's hear what it is.
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essentialsaltes
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