Law and Commandment vs Grace and Mercy

To all:

We are not under the 613 Laws of Moses, so those who promote that we must keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, etc. as a part of the faith do not understand that we are under a New Covenant with new commands. We follow Jesus and His followers and not Moses or the Law given to Israel. This is one wrong extreme that Paul was fighting against. Hebrews 7:12 says the law has changed. Colossians 2:14-17 makes it clear that we are not required to keep the Sabbaths and dietary laws, etc.

The opposite end of that spectrum is turning God's grace into a license for immorality in some way by saying that we can sin and still be saved. Most in the church teach that we can break God's laws in the New Testament and still be saved. Yet, Jesus, John, and Paul warned against how sin can destroy the soul in the afterlife if such sins are not confessed or forsaken. See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, Luke 10:25-28, 1 John 3:15, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:8.

For he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13).

Charlie24 said:

You have been misinformed of scripture on a level that is impossible for you to understand without an intervention from God.

I have explained and explained but to no avail. I turn this over to the only One that can help you. I pray that God will make that intervention in some fashion that you may find the truth of His Word.

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I can say the same for you. Again, what is the “work of the flesh” according to Galatians 5:19? It says that the work of the flesh are these... adultery, fornication, uncleanness, etc. Those are sins that the New Testament or New Covenant condemns and it is not exclusive to the Law of Moses alone. Paul condemned circumcision in Galatians 5:1-6. This was something that is a part of the Law of Moses. Ever read Acts of the Apostles 15 before? The Jerusalem council was condemning those who thought they had to be circumcised in order to be initially saved and or those who thought that they had to follow the Old Law (i.e. the Law of Moses). For John 1:17 says that the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Charlie24 said:

You have been misinformed of scripture on a level that is impossible for you to understand without an intervention from God.

I have explained and explained but to no avail. I turn this over to the only One that can help you. I pray that God will make that intervention in some fashion that you may find the truth of His Word.

Click to expand...

You fail to understand these truths in Scripture.

“...we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.” (Romans 7:6).

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
(Hebrews 7:12).

Charlie24 said:

You have been misinformed of scripture on a level that is impossible for you to understand without an intervention from God.

I have explained and explained but to no avail. I turn this over to the only One that can help you. I pray that God will make that intervention in some fashion that you may find the truth of His Word.

Click to expand...

So if the works of the flesh is adultery, fornication, uncleanness, etc. and doing such things will cause one not to inherit the kingdom of God, then why are you teaching that a person can commit sin and still be saved? This runs contrary to what Paul is teaching in Galatians 5:19-21. Paul was condemning in going back to the Old Law (Galatians 5:1-6), and Paul was condemning Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace in Jesus Christ. Paul was not condemning obedience to the Lord as a part of the faith or salvation (after a person was saved by God's grace).

Hello brothers in Christ,
I understand you may disagree with me but let the sharing of our faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ. -Philemon 1:6

This is your premise :
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Let us continue on,
Galatians 5:5
BUT by faith we eagerly AWAIT THROUGH THE SPIRIT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope.

Now, this is also what we have heard from apostle Paul:
Romans 8:1-4

Therefore, there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, because through Christ Jesus THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. For what the law (of sin and death) was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

Let me explain again what apostle Paul tries to say in Galatian 5:4-5

You who are trying to be justified by the law ( of sin and death ) have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
BUT by faith we eagerly AWAIT THROUGH THE SPIRIT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope.

so, in Galatian 5:5, we are told to await eagerly by faith through the spirit; what do we eagerly await ? : THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope for THROUGH THE SPIRIT and by faith.

And this righteousness for which we hope for through the Spirit and by faith is mentioned in Roman 8:4

in order that THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

So by faith we eagerly AWAIT THROUGH THE SPIRIT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope, that is, THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

So, REMEMBER: there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, because THROUGH CHRIST JESUS THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.

Charlie24 said:

I love you too, Steven. Even though we disagree on some things you are still my brother in Christ.

Paul is very bold, making many statements that have made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. This is just one example in Gal. 5:4.

Jesus has told us by His deeper understanding of the Law that we can't keep it, only by Grace through faith can we find mercy that the Law will not condemn us.

Paul is telling us here the same as Jesus told us, you cannot be justified by the deeds of the Law, those who seek to do so are fallen from Grace, no longer saved. Seeking to keep the Law on our own ability or as in this case, those who have accepted Christ and now adding Law to faith, have cancelled Grace.

Rom. 4:14,
For if they which are of the Law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect.

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Likewise brothers in Christ,
you may disagree with me but let that the sharing of our faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ. -Philemon 1:6

This is your premise:
Rom. 4:14,
For if they which are of the Law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect.

Let us first hear what is spoken in Roman 4:13
For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of faith. -Romans 4:13

Now, this is also what we have heard from apostle Paul:
Romans 8:1-4

Therefore, there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, because through Christ Jesus THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. For what the law (of sin and death) was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

From what apostle Paul have spoken Roman 8:1-4, we can better understand which law apostle Paul have spoken of in Roman 4:13-14:

For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law ( of sin and death ) but THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of faith. -Romans 4:13

Rom. 4:14,
For if they which are of the Law ( of sin and death ) be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect.

So for the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law ( of sin and death ) because through Christ Jesus THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.

Therefore, for the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world come THROUGH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of faith in Christ Jesus; Therefore, there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, because through Christ Jesus THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.

SANTOSO said:

in order that THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

So by faith we eagerly AWAIT THROUGH THE SPIRIT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope, that is, THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

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Thanks for your post.
I think there are three laws being discussed in that scripture, not two.
1) The law (the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses)
2) THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE (the effect of Grace)
3) THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH (the effect of the law, see #1)

This means I disagree with your inserted parenthetical statements in your provided scriptures. (marked in red below, at the bottom of this post) I believe these refer to "the law", see #1 in my list above. Here's why.

Some early Christians were concerned about whether they were keeping the law, or not. Even though they were gentiles, they saw and heard their Jewish brothers and sisters concerns and actions. These Jewish Christians were still culturally Jewish. Many of them still observed the Sabbath and avoided "unclean" foods.

In this scripture, the Apostle Paul (himself Jewish) is trying explain and reassure them of their relationship with the law (#1 in my list above) He uses all three laws from my list to explain this. With that in mind, let's re-read verses three and four. (notice the past tense treatment) It is referring the law that was present before Christ came. (not after)

3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. - Romans 8:3-4

Here is the scripture from your post.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Galatians 5:5
BUT by faith we eagerly AWAIT THROUGH THE SPIRIT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope.

Romans 8:1-4
Therefore, there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, because through Christ Jesus THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. For what the law (of sin and death) was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

Saint Steven said:

Thanks for your post.
I think there are three laws being discussed in that scripture, not two.
1) The law (the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses)
2) THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE (the effect of Grace)
3) THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH (the effect of the law, see #1)

This means I disagree with your inserted parenthetical statements in your provided scriptures. (marked in red below, at the bottom of this post) I believe these refer to "the law", see #1 in my list above. Here's why.

Some early Christians were concerned about whether they were keeping the law, or not. Even though they were gentiles, they saw and heard their Jewish brothers and sisters concerns and actions. These Jewish Christians were still culturally Jewish. Many of them still observed the Sabbath and avoided "unclean" foods.

In this scripture, the Apostle Paul (himself Jewish) is trying explain and reassure them of their relationship with the law (#1 in my list above) He uses all three laws from my list to explain this. With that in mind, let's re-read verses three and four. (notice the past tense treatment) It is referring the law that was present before Christ came. (not after)

3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. - Romans 8:3-4

Here is the scripture from your post.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Galatians 5:5
BUT by faith we eagerly AWAIT THROUGH THE SPIRIT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope.

Romans 8:1-4
Therefore, there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, because through Christ Jesus THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. For what the law (of sin and death) was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

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Perhaps I understand what you are referring. Even if you changed what I parentheses to the law that God gave Moses, you will see the referred effect is still the same #2 and #3 for Roman 8:3-4.
Why ?

If you are concerned about the cultural context of the Jewish Christians and Gentiles Christians in early Christianity, hear this out what apostle Paul have spoken in the book of Roman:

For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. -Romans 2:28
But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. -Romans 2:29

You see apostle Paul made no such distinction between the Jewish Christians and the Gentiles Christians. The importance is that we are all inwardly Jews and a matter of the heart by the Spirit!

You have also heard what Jesus have spoken:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL them. -Matthew 5:17

How Jesus fulfill the law that God gave Moses ?
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

SANTOSO said:

You have also heard what Jesus have spoken:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL them. -Matthew 5:17

How Jesus fulfill the law that God gave Moses ?
Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

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Jesus explains what he meant in Matt.5:17 after his resurrection.
The Law and the Prophets are the books, not the law itself. Notice the capital letters L and P. He fulfilled the PROPHETIC aspects of the Law and the Prophets and Psalms.

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

SANTOSO said:

Perhaps I understand what you are referring. Even if you changed what I parentheses to the law that God gave Moses, you will see the referred effect is still the same #2 and #3 for Roman 8:3-4.
Why ?

If you are concerned about the cultural context of the Jewish Christians and Gentiles Christians in early Christianity, hear this out what apostle Paul have spoken in the book of Roman:

For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. -Romans 2:28
But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. -Romans 2:29

You see apostle Paul made no such distinction between the Jewish Christians and the Gentiles Christians. The importance is that we are all inwardly Jews and a matter of the heart by the Spirit!

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Acts chapter 15 and Galatians chapter 3 show this dynamic between the Jewish Christians promoting the law and the gentile Christians.

Galatians 3:1-2
You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Acts 15:1, 5
Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” ...
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

SANTOSO said:

Hello brothers in Christ,
I understand you may disagree with me but let the sharing of our faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ. -Philemon 1:6

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Thanks for the warm greeting (even though we disagree strongly on Scripture).

You said:

This is your premise :
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

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Rest assured most believe as you do. Most today believe they can sin and still be saved by having a belief alone in Jesus. But one should not find comfort in such a message because the Bible actually condemns Belief Alone-ism.

“And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.” (Matthew 3:9).

“They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.” (John 8:39).

As for your quote of Galatians 5:4 that says that if we seek to be justified by the Law we have fallen away from grace:

Well, if you were to look at the context, it says this:

“Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” (Galatians 5:2).

Circumcision is a part of the Old Testament Law of Moses, and not the commandments that come from Jesus and His followers. Circumcision is Old Covenant, and not a part of the New Covenant (or New Testament).

At the time, Paul was fighting against the heresy of “Circumcision Salvationism.” This was the false belief that said you had to be first circumcised in order to be saved. This heresy was more clearly addressed at the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

In other words, if someone believed in making Circumcision a part of initial salvation, then they would be making the Law the foundation of their salvation and not Jesus Christ. They would then be fallen from grace if they believed that way.

You said:

Let us continue on,
Galatians 5:5
BUT by faith we eagerly AWAIT THROUGH THE SPIRIT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope.

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Right, and when you read Galatians 5:5, you also have to read Galatians 5:16 that says,

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” (Galatians 5:16).

The lust of the flesh is sin.

You said:

Now, this is also what we have heard from apostle Paul:
Romans 8:1-4

Therefore, there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, because through Christ Jesus THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. For what the law (of sin and death) was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

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Well, you quoted either a Modern Translation that left out keywords, or you intentionally left out the key words in Romans 8:1. Romans 8:1 says,

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1) (KJB).

There is no condemnation to those who walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.
The flesh is sin. So if one is walking after sin or the flesh, they will die. But if they walk after the Spirit and to put away sin (or the deeds of the body) there is eternal life.

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

You said:

Let me explain again what apostle Paul tries to say in Galatian 5:4-5

You who are trying to be justified by the law ( of sin and death ) have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
BUT by faith we eagerly AWAIT THROUGH THE SPIRIT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope.

so, in Galatian 5:5, we are told to await eagerly by faith through the spirit; what do we eagerly await ? : THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope for THROUGH THE SPIRIT and by faith.

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I don't believe in following the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal (Which is what Paul was condeming). Paul was not against following the commands of Jesus Christ. For if Paul did condemn the words of Jesus, he would have contradicted himself. For Paul said in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. James 4:6 says that God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

Maybe you should check out the context in Galatians 5. It says this:

Galatians 5:24 KJB
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”

You said:

And this righteousness for which we hope for through the Spirit and by faith is mentioned in Roman 8:4

in order that THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

So by faith we eagerly AWAIT THROUGH THE SPIRIT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS for which we hope, that is, THE RIGHTEOUS REQUIREMENTS of THE LAW ( of the Spirit of life ) MIGHT BE FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.

So, REMEMBER: there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, because THROUGH CHRIST JESUS THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE SET ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.

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Keep reading. Romans 13:14 says this:

“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.” (Romans 13:14) (KJB).

Saint Steven said:

Thanks for your post. I picked this paragraph to respond to. About verse nineteen. (Matt.5)

The question is, what is Jesus referring to when he says, "these least commandments"?
- Is he referring to the law that God gave to Israel through Moses?
- Which commandments (commands) are considered "least"?
- Is he referring to the Beatitudes that he just gave prior to saying this? They aren't really commandments.
- Or is he referring to what he is about to say concerning both the law and his own commandments (commands)?
- Remember, he says here that those who teach these "least" commandments (commands) will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Interestingly, he goes on to treat the law as hearsay, and then replaces it with his own commands. There are five, "You have heard that it was said... but I tell you..." statements. Each one replaces part of the law. ("but" = contrast/replacement)

Some claim it made the law more binding. I don't see it that way. The Apostle Paul goes a long way to explain that we are not under the law. And Jesus ministry is full of events that challenge the law. Beginning right in this chapter.

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Heck no, the Lord Yeshua doesn't desire us to be any more bondage than we can already stand. It is why loving God, and Loving your neighbors are like two sunny side up eggs, which are light and easy to eat.

Charlie24 said:

It's beyond me why anyone can't understand or refuse to understand Rom. 3:28.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the Law.

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The deeds of the Law is the Law of Moses and not the commands of Jesus Christ.

How so? Look at the context.

“What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?” (Romans 3:1) (KJB).

Did the average Jew follow the commands of Jesus? No. They followed the Torah or the Old Law.
Is circumcision a command given to us by Jesus and or His followers in the New Covenant or Testament? No. Circumcision was a part of the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses.

So the context of Romans 3:28 is the Old Law and not the commands of Jesus.

John 1:17 says that the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Side Note:

Folks who want a more comforting way of salvation for themselves or those who want to justify sin in some way will take Paul's words of context when they see the word “law” spoken by him generically. Paul always referred to the Old Law when he used the word “law” generically.

Bible Highlighter said:

You fail to understand these truths in Scripture.

“...we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.” (Romans 7:6).

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To omit the parts of a scripture to promote a certain religious philosophy is common among religious men, but does not edify.

Rom. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

We have all already "walked in the Flesh" and have rejected the Laws of God which are Spiritual, and are under the curse disobedience brings to the men of the world. When Jesus shed His Blood, we were freed from this death and are no longer "under" the "curse" of the Law. We are no longer dead, but alive and free to "Walk in the Spirit", or as Paul says here "Serve in the Newness of the Spirit", and not die according to the Letter of the Law.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Obeying God is not sin. His Law defines sin so we will know what not to do, like Covet things that are not ours.

Rom. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law, (Dead) but under grace? (Alive) God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Disobedience) unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom. 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; (Of the Bible) but with the flesh the law of sin. (death)

If I judged some of God's instructions as beneath me and unworthy of my respect and honor, and this lifestyle killed me, Then why would I continue to judge some of God's Laws as beneath me and unworthy of my honor and respect after God sent HIS Own Son to Free me this death?

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, (Transgression of God's Laws) that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
(Hebrews 7:12).

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Again, the practice of only posting parts of the Scriptures in order to promote some religious philosophy is common to be sure. But deceptive just the same. Lets see what the Hebrews author was really saying here.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This is where you stopped so as to promote your religion which preaches God's entire character and definition of sin and righteousness changed. But if you would have posted the next two sentences, you would have seen the Hebrews author not only tell you what "LAW" changed, but why it was necessary to change.

13 For he of whom these things (Covenant given Specifically to Levi) are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

So according to the Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf, ONLY a Levite, by Priesthood Law, could become the High Priest. Jesus was from Judah, so before HE could become the High Priest, it was "Necessary" to change the Law which restricts the Tribe of Judah from becoming the High Priest. "which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Why would you leave this part of the paragraph out if your preaching? That is the question that you should ask yourself.

Studyman said:

To omit the parts of a scripture to promote a certain religious philosophy is common among religious men, but does not edify.

Rom. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

We have all already "walked in the Flesh" and have rejected the Laws of God which are Spiritual, and are under the curse disobedience brings to the men of the world. When Jesus shed His Blood, we were freed from this death and are no longer "under" the "curse" of the Law. We are no longer dead, but alive and free to "Walk in the Spirit", or as Paul says here "Serve in the Newness of the Spirit", and not die according to the Letter of the Law.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Obeying God is not sin. His Law defines sin so we will know what not to do, like Covet things that are not ours.

Rom. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law, (Dead) but under grace? (Alive) God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Disobedience) unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom. 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; (Of the Bible) but with the flesh the law of sin. (death)

If I judged some of God's instructions as beneath me and unworthy of my respect and honor, and this lifestyle killed me, Then why would I continue to judge some of God's Laws as beneath me and unworthy of my honor and respect after God sent HIS Own Son to Free me this death?

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, (Transgression of God's Laws) that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?




Again, the practice of only posting parts of the Scriptures in order to promote some religious philosophy is common to be sure. But deceptive just the same. Lets see what the Hebrews author was really saying here.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This is where you stopped so as to promote your religion which preaches God's entire character and definition of sin and righteousness changed. But if you would have posted the next two sentences, you would have seen the Hebrews author not only tell you what "LAW" changed, but why it was necessary to change.

13 For he of whom these things (Covenant given Specifically to Levi) are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

So according to the Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf, ONLY a Levite, by Priesthood Law, could become the High Priest. Jesus was from Judah, so before HE could become the High Priest, it was "Necessary" to change the Law which restricts the Tribe of Judah from becoming the High Priest. "which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Why would you leave this part of the paragraph out if your preaching? That is the question that you should ask yourself.

Click to expand...

What I said with Scripture stands. The context does not undo what I have stated with God's Word. Hebrews 7:11 makes a generic reference to “the Law” and not exclusively the laws on the priesthood only. Nowhere does Hebrews suggest that it was the priesthood laws only. That is your imagination working overtime. Just because the priesthood was being spoken about, does not mean that the words “the Law” is in reference to only priesthood laws. You like to follow the Old Law in some way. So this is why you seek to change what Hebrews 7:11-12 plainly says. Besides, there is Colossians 2:16 and others that make it clear that we are not to judge according to Sabbaths, holy days, and dietary laws. This means the Old way is no more.

I am not going to keep arguing with you back and forth on this because of Titus 3:9.

Studyman said:

To omit the parts of a scripture to promote a certain religious philosophy is common among religious men, but does not edify.

Rom. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

We have all already "walked in the Flesh" and have rejected the Laws of God which are Spiritual, and are under the curse disobedience brings to the men of the world. When Jesus shed His Blood, we were freed from this death and are no longer "under" the "curse" of the Law. We are no longer dead, but alive and free to "Walk in the Spirit", or as Paul says here "Serve in the Newness of the Spirit", and not die according to the Letter of the Law.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Obeying God is not sin. His Law defines sin so we will know what not to do, like Covet things that are not ours.

Rom. 6:15 What then? shall we sin, (Transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law, (Dead) but under grace? (Alive) God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Disobedience) unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom. 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; (Of the Bible) but with the flesh the law of sin. (death)

If I judged some of God's instructions as beneath me and unworthy of my respect and honor, and this lifestyle killed me, Then why would I continue to judge some of God's Laws as beneath me and unworthy of my honor and respect after God sent HIS Own Son to Free me this death?

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, (Transgression of God's Laws) that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?




Again, the practice of only posting parts of the Scriptures in order to promote some religious philosophy is common to be sure. But deceptive just the same. Lets see what the Hebrews author was really saying here.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This is where you stopped so as to promote your religion which preaches God's entire character and definition of sin and righteousness changed. But if you would have posted the next two sentences, you would have seen the Hebrews author not only tell you what "LAW" changed, but why it was necessary to change.

13 For he of whom these things (Covenant given Specifically to Levi) are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

So according to the Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf, ONLY a Levite, by Priesthood Law, could become the High Priest. Jesus was from Judah, so before HE could become the High Priest, it was "Necessary" to change the Law which restricts the Tribe of Judah from becoming the High Priest. "which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Why would you leave this part of the paragraph out if your preaching? That is the question that you should ask yourself.

Click to expand...

“Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:9).

This is speaking of covenants.

“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;” (Hebrews 10:16).

The Old Covenant (Old Testament) is taken away, so that He might establish the second (i.e. The New Covenant or New Testament).