B-b-b-but you can't kiss icons during Covid though right guys ? Right ?

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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From The 7th Ecumenical Council (787 A.D.)

confessed by Bishop Theodosius in order to be reconciled to the Church after supporting iconoclasm:

“Likewise also I venerate and honour and salute the relics of the Saints as of those who fought for Christ and who have received grace from Him For The Healing Of Diseases And The Curing Of Sicknesses And The Casting Out Of devils, as the Christian Church has received from the holy Apostles and Fathers even down to us today.”



• Extracts from the Acts. Session I.


NPNF2-14 The Seventh Ecumenical Council. Extracts from the Acts. Session I.


https://twitter.com/AudioScribeOW/status/1308387590823792646


EihTlEZUwAArujn


.
 
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“Paisios”

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From The 7th Ecumenical Council (787 A.D.)

confessed by Bishop Theodosius in order to be reconciled to the Church after supporting iconoclasm:

“Likewise also I venerate and honour and salute the relics of the Saints as of those who fought for Christ and who have received grace from Him For The Healing Of Diseases And The Curing Of Sicknesses And The Casting Out Of devils, as the Christian Church has received from the holy Apostles and Fathers even down to us today.”



• Extracts from the Acts. Session I.


NPNF2-14 The Seventh Ecumenical Council. Extracts from the Acts. Session I.


https://twitter.com/AudioScribeOW/status/1308387590823792646


EihTlEZUwAArujn


.
Currently, I will bow to the icons in veneration thereof, in accordance with the direction of my bishop. When this pandemic, or the hysteria related to it, has passed, and my bishop again decrees that it is appropriate to kiss our icons in veneration, then I will eagerly kiss the icons. My respect for them is not less because I obey my bishop’s direction who is set in authority over me, even if I disagree with him - I respect his position and authority, and see that it is in my best interest spiritually and for the sake of my community to obey my bishop in these difficult times.
 
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I don’t think anyone is saying that’s a bad thing, brother. You are obeying your bishop and God knows your heart. I think the OP is just expressing frustration. We’re all frustrated.

personally, I’m just grateful we’ve had Divine Liturgy and Vespers for months throughout this pandemic and confessions, etc. Our priest is a WARRIOR!

Currently, I will bow to the icons in veneration thereof, in accordance with the direction of my bishop. When this pandemic, or the hysteria related to it, has passed, and my bishop again decrees that it is appropriate to kiss our icons in veneration, then I will eagerly kiss the icons. My respect for them is not less because I obey my bishop’s direction who is set in authority over me, even if I disagree with him - I respect his position and authority, and see that it is in my best interest spiritually and for the sake of my community to obey my bishop in these difficult times.
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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Currently, I will bow to the icons in veneration thereof, in accordance with the direction of my bishop. When this pandemic, or the hysteria related to it, has passed, and my bishop again decrees that it is appropriate to kiss our icons in veneration, then I will eagerly kiss the icons. My respect for them is not less because I obey my bishop’s direction who is set in authority over me, even if I disagree with him - I respect his position and authority, and see that it is in my best interest spiritually and for the sake of my community to obey my bishop in these difficult times.


Well, at least we can still make poklons and prostrations I guess.


.
 
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JamesTheJust

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The reactions to COVID have definitely been a revelation. There is now no doubt who the modernists and traditionalists are, both within Holy Orthodoxy and without. Restrictions increase in direct proportion to modernism. My traditionalist parish has never closed, while mainline Protestant parishes in my vicinity have yet to open to any extent at all!

Lord have mercy.
 
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rusmeister

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The reactions to COVID have definitely been a revelation. There is now no doubt who the modernists and traditionalists are, both within Holy Orthodoxy and without. Restrictions increase in direct proportion to modernism. My traditionalist parish has never closed, while mainline Protestant parishes in my vicinity have yet to open to any extent at all!

Lord have mercy.
I think this strikes at the heart of the disputes and disagreements. I myself said a month ago: "
It’s about the war of fashion vs tradition, which spreads into every corner of the earth. It’s about those who have been led to believe that “everything changes” (and should change) vs those who believe that some things, such as moral standards, ought not to change. Globalist multiculturalists vs nationalists who believe their own nation and historical culture ought to be their main concern. It’s the coastal elites and modern educations who know better than the saints of the past and their ancestors vs humble people who think that their ancestors and the saints knew better than we on things that truly matter."

This goes within the Church as well as outside of it. In American and in foreign politics as well. In the Church it is those who speak of a "Living Tradition" (as if anyone at all who accepted Orthodoxy thought it dead) when what they MEAN is "changing Tradition", a revelation that is not complete with Christ, but is constantly opening up and becoming other than what it was. Thus, women can become first deaconnesses, then when we get used to that, priests and bishops, just because "we need priests". Thus an English Metropolitan can call for the acceptance of same-sex sexual relations within the Church "as long as they are faithful to each other". Thus we make political issues of the day central within the Church. Thus we can introduce pews, then guitars, then cheesy modern songs, little step by little step. Thus the Church can become just like the world, little by little.

(Yes, I think pews have a decisive negative theological effect on worship and are a bad Western innovation. But that's a smaller nit to pick.)
 
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FenderTL5

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Currently, I will bow to the icons in veneration thereof, in accordance with the direction of my bishop. When this pandemic, or the hysteria related to it, has passed, and my bishop again decrees that it is appropriate to kiss our icons in veneration, then I will eagerly kiss the icons. My respect for them is not less because I obey my bishop’s direction who is set in authority over me, even if I disagree with him - I respect his position and authority, and see that it is in my best interest spiritually and for the sake of my community to obey my bishop in these difficult times.
I don't see any inconsistency in what you said/are doing with the quote in the OP.
 
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Hermit76

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Currently, I will bow to the icons in veneration thereof, in accordance with the direction of my bishop. When this pandemic, or the hysteria related to it, has passed, and my bishop again decrees that it is appropriate to kiss our icons in veneration, then I will eagerly kiss the icons. My respect for them is not less because I obey my bishop’s direction who is set in authority over me, even if I disagree with him - I respect his position and authority, and see that it is in my best interest spiritually and for the sake of my community to obey my bishop in these difficult times.
There's value and wisdom in your post. These are difficult times. It is a complex problem and discernment is tainted.
 
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“Paisios”

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I don’t think anyone is saying that’s a bad thing, brother. You are obeying your bishop and God knows your heart. I think the OP is just expressing frustration. We’re all frustrated.

personally, I’m just grateful we’ve had Divine Liturgy and Vespers for months throughout this pandemic and confessions, etc. Our priest is a WARRIOR!

I certainly understand and suffer from the same frustration, and I also meant no criticism of the OP. I’m trying to work through this all in my own mind, as well, and come to some kind of workable solution. We only had streaming services for a few months, which might work for some Protestant services, but not so much for Divine Liturgy. We are fortunate enough to be back in person since July, and it has been working well. My priest has been hearing confessions again, as well.



I don't see any inconsistency in what you said/are doing with the quote in the OP.
Thanks. I share his frustrations. I didn’t see any inconsistency either.
 
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Xenophon

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Been kissing icons all the time, regardless of what bishop says or does not say.

As St. John Cassian said, "The two things a monk should most avoid for the sake of his soul are: 1. Women. 2: His bishop." (paraphrased)

If, at the beginning of this, it was said that we all needed to be like hermits in the desert, so taking this advise to heart.
 
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rusmeister

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Been kissing icons all the time, regardless of what bishop says or does not say.

As St. John Cassian said, "The two things a monk should most avoid for the sake of his soul are: 1. Women. 2: His bishop." (paraphrased)

If, at the beginning of this, it was said that we all needed to be like hermits in the desert, so taking this advise to heart.

You can only ignore a bishop if they are giving unlawful directions. a Church run by heretical bishops is a disaster, but so is a Church of individualists, each doing and believing as he sees fit. It's in adhering to Holy Tradition that we are justified, and if one is going to ignore a bishop, one had better be sure.

That said, I hear you. We may have to soldier on in faith alone. But if we break with the fathers, we will fail.
 
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Xenophon

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You can only ignore a bishop if they are giving unlawful directions. a Church run by heretical bishops is a disaster, but so is a Church of individualists, each doing and believing as he sees fit. It's in adhering to Holy Tradition that we are justified, and if one is going to ignore a bishop, one had better be sure.

That said, I hear you. We may have to soldier on in faith alone. But if we break with the fathers, we will fail.

No imperative has ever been given by anyone for any of this. I would be ignoring my catechesis to act without an imperative, yet it is asked that we all act without an imperative. Since there is no imperative, there is no lawful direction.

Seeing all of this, and hearing only the deafening silence from above, I have been tempted to 'seek my salvation alone again.' I understand that the Bishop cares nothing about me. I understand that there is no fatherly guidance or protection to be expected. There is only a noose being tightened around my neck.

And I'm done. Simply 'done.' I was patient beyond my limits. Whatever ounce of flexibility I had for this kind of crap is wasted and gone. I will not be compliant. If that means the death of me, so be it. I've suffered under many abuses in my short life and I will dig my heels into the ground to that end. I do not go willingly to the slaughter. I am noncompliant.

I told my priest this at the beginning what would be if this were to drag on.
To quote a hero of mine, "I'd rather give my body and soul over to destruction then give into your insanity."
 
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