Religion as a tool to gain spiritual connection

i think partly it is a back lash against Christianity as a world religion having done so many wicked things. Plus individualism rules supreme in our current culture, it is about the individual feeling good about him or herself, not about being ruled by some religious overseer.

Faith in the love of God and Jesus is set aside as well though, and what those freethinkers miss is a solid footing, for serving our feelings is always shallow and egocentric in its purpose. While serving God true does away with egocentric spirit in favour of The Lord's, a humble gentle spirit to rule instead.

It is only one of the voices of the false prophets trying to dominate our religious thinking in a world full of anti Christ spirituality.

Just from what you've said, I would wonder if the near-death experience resulted in greater susceptibility to demonic influence.

ke 'it doesn't matter what you have faith in as long as you have faith'.

I found it really interesting and would love to hear your opinions on this line of thought?[/QUOTE]


From what I can make of the NT the hallmark of a Christian is coming alive through,

Hebrews 2:14
and.John 11:25
but,
Genesis 3:22 points to,
all is in the hands of the One above.

RoseCrystal said:

doesn't matter what religion you belong to as long as you feel a spiritual connection by being a part of that religion.

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Jesus said" I am the way, the truth and the life no one comes to God except by me."

If that is truth then the above quote is a lie. And vice versa.

Where do you find truth?

RoseCrystal said:

I've been reading a lot of NDE accounts lately and there is a lot of people who have had this experience that then decide to leave their respective religions. They say it doesn't matter what religion you belong to as long as you feel a spiritual connection by being a part of that religion. And once they realised this they no longer needed organised religion to feel that connection.

That religion is used by humans as a tool to gain a spiritual connection to God/source/mother nature/the light/great spirit/whatever your word is for that. Sort of like 'it doesn't matter what you have faith in as long as you have faith'.

I found it really interesting and would love to hear your opinions on this line of thought?

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Never had an NDE, but my response is, "sort of". It does matter what you have faith in to a point; it has to have a level of consistency with the real world and not interfere with your ability to function positively in it. But, I believe if there are any gods who care, then they would know you are making a sincere effort to say hello and that should be sufficiently satisfying. And if you aren't trying at all, that's okay too.

The holidays I celebrate, the rituals I conduct, and the tools I use have personal symbolic meaning that sets the stage for me. They are not requirements.

Tolworth John said:

Jesus said" I am the way, the truth and the life no one comes to God except by me."

If that is truth then the above quote is a lie. And vice versa.

Where do you find truth?

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Science is where you find the closest thing to truth.
Faith isn't about truth.

On what grounds should we accept Jesus's supposed quote as truth?
Because someone attributed it to him thousands of years ago in a book that someone claimed to be written by/inspired by Jesus?

awitch said:

Science is where you find the closest thing to truth.
Faith isn't about truth.

On what grounds should we accept Jesus's supposed quote as truth?
Because someone attributed it to him thousands of years ago in a book that someone claimed to be written by/inspired by Jesus?

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Sorry but Christian faith is about truth is about does faith in Jesus lead to heaven or whether not having faith in him leads to hell.
There can be no more important test of the truth of one's faith.

So how does science answer this question?

Yes the Bible is two thousand plus years old. Does the truth wear out with age or is it eternal?
The age is irrelevant.

Christianity stands or falls on did Jesus rise from the dead.

What is your argument to demonstrate the facts showing Jesus did not rise from the dead?

Tolworth John said:

Sorry but Christian faith is about truth is about does faith in Jesus lead to heaven or whether not having faith in him leads to hell.
There can be no more important test of the truth of one's faith.

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An all-powerful, all-knowing god would not need to test anyone for he would already know the sincerity of your faith. Being all powerful would mean he dictates it, actually. I would even go further to suggest that a god who rejects a sincere seeker based on semantics of practice doesn't sound like a benevolent deity, especially when the fate of every eternal soul is on the line. Such a deity would not be worth the paper his word was printed on.

So how does science answer this question?

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Science is not concerned with gods. But if you want to know the truth about the world, science often provides the best possible answer where sufficient evidence and data exists.

Yes the Bible is two thousand plus years old. Does the truth wear out with age or is it eternal?
The age is irrelevant.

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My challenge isn't based on the age of the claim, but the circular reasoning that you've provided as the argument to accept its truth is invalid; the Bible is true because it says so.

What is your argument to demonstrate the facts showing Jesus did not rise from the dead?

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One does not need to prove a negative. You are the one making the positive assertion so the burden of proof is your responsibility.

Hawthorne said:

Just from what you've said, I would wonder if the near-death experience resulted in greater susceptibility to demonic influence.

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I

some experiences of Heaven are genuine because they don't contradict the Bible but I do think some are a bit suspect.

Robban said:

ke 'it doesn't matter what you have faith in as long as you have faith'.

I found it really interesting and would love to hear your opinions on this line of thought?

Click to expand...

From what I can make of the NT the hallmark of a Christian is coming alive through,

Hebrews 2:14
and.John 11:25
but,
Genesis 3:22 points to,
all is in the hands of the One above.[/QUOTE]


If this vid is anything like the revolving sword from Genesis 3:24

Best to know one's place would reckon.


Or what.

For myself, it seems that organized religion can become similar to idolatry. In idolatry there is a statue to help the religious person focus on the god that is difficult to imagine. The only problem is that the person can subconsciously forget that the focus should be the god rather than the idol.

When I was an Eastern Orthodox Christian convert, I tried to learn about Orthodoxy and gradually the religion became my focus rather than God.

So for me, it is better to not be part of any religion (for now at least).

cloudyday2 said:

For myself, it seems that organized religion can become similar to idolatry. In idolatry there is a statue to help the religious person focus on the god that is difficult to imagine. The only problem is that the person can subconsciously forget that the focus should be the god rather than the idol.

When I was an Eastern Orthodox Christian convert, I tried to learn about Orthodoxy and gradually the religion became my focus rather than God.

So for me, it is better to not be part of any religion (for now at least).

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Best is probably not becoming one with religion but becoming one with Him.

awitch said:

An all-powerful, all-knowing god would not need to test anyone for he would already know

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Is what one believes true is the test I was referring to.

awitch said:

Science is not concerned with gods.

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But it is according to you what determines truth, so how does science determine whether Christianity or any other belief is true.

awitch said:

My challenge isn't based on the age of the claim, but the circular reasoning that you've provided as the argument to accept its truth is invalid; the Bible is true because it says so.

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What circular argument? I gave no argument other than to agree the Bible is old.

Did Jesus rise from the dead? That can be proved by providing historical accounts that show he did not rise from the dead.
The evidence that he did is in historical accounts.

RoseCrystal said:

how can we as Christians be so sure we are right?

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Because of the Bible and because of the resurrection.

Jesus said he is the Truth, so either he is in which case Christianity is true, or he is a liar and Christianity is false.

Investigate it, try coldcasechristianity, or answersingenesis ( you don't have to be her to read there articles, they stand on the accurate authority of the Bible, literally. )
Wintery knight and reasonablecfaith if you like logical scientific argument.
Try Lee Strobel for very readable books on the resurrection.

Tolworth John said:

But it is according to you what determines truth, so how does science determine whether Christianity or any other belief is true.

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I should clarify that science tells us the best possible explanation for the truth of reality.
To determine if Christianity (or any other religion, or anything) we look at the evidence that Christians are required to provide.

What circular argument? I gave no argument other than to agree the Bible is old.

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That the Bible is the word of god because it says it is, so the Bible is true. You've given us a supposed quote from Jesus in post #5 and suggest it's true because it's in the Bible. I asked if it was true because the Bible is supposed to written by or inspired by god, which you didn't address.

Did Jesus rise from the dead? That can be proved by providing historical accounts that show he did not rise from the dead.
The evidence that he did is in historical accounts.

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That is not historical record in any academic sense. It's a story that people wrote long after he supposedly lived and died. That doesn't make it any more true than the Bhagavad Gita or The Odyssey.

Tolworth John said:

Jesus said he is the Truth, so either he is in which case Christianity is true, or he is a liar and Christianity is false.

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Or, there are other spiritual options that aren't being explored at all.

awitch said:

That is not historical record in any academic sense. It

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So Bert Erhman is not an atheist historian who accepts the accuracy of the Bible. That other historians accept the accuracy of the bible.

awitch said:

You've given us a supposed quote from Jesus in post #5 a

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Thank you for pointing that out. I would argue that as the Bible is demonstrable accuracy on points of history and fact concerning the time and places in the new testament then the spiritual remarks and statements are equally likely to be accurate.

Look up sir William Michael Ramsay archeologist who life time of digging up the near East brought him to the conclusion that Luke was always accurate.

May I suggest that you take a fresh look at the evidence.
The normal literary process is to assume documents are true untill shown not to be so.

dlamberth said:

Or, there are other spiritual options that aren't being explored at all.

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Please pay them out, let us compare the factual evidence for Jesus with the factual evidence for your ' other spiritual options'?