LDS Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham is False

Dale said:

Yes, the Mormon Church does own a lot a land and not just land that their churches or meeting houses are on. I grew up in Melbourne, FL, and there was a large ranch west of town called The Mormon Ranch. A few years ago the LDS church was listed as one of the largest land owners in Florida. In the last year or two I've heard that one of their land acquisitions in Volusia County, which includes Daytona, is controversial among environmentalists.

Mormons are a very small percentage of the population in Florida, so it's difficult to see why so much land should be owned by such a small sect.

I do have a question. Years ago I was told that the LDS church never borrows money to build a church. They don't acquire the land or start building until they have the money in the bank to pay for it. Is this true?

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Most of the land owned in Florida is farm and ranch land that provides food for the church's welfare system. The rest does just enough commercial business to subsidize the sum total cost of operation.

Yes, we and the Seventh-Day Adventists have our own farms and ranches set aside to get food for our own welfare systems. Not only that, we have an agreement in place with the Adventists to where we'll handle a lot of their logistics in exchange for certain food items that they can grow more efficiently than we can.


That being said, it does sadly happen to where there are people who hear "welfare system" and want theirs. Back when I was the finance clerk for a congregation I had to field a phone call from one such individual; basically, they heard we had a welfare system and were wanting something right on the spot.

This is why outside of a disaster situation anyone who requests assistance from the church has to sit down in private with their local leadership and go over their personal finances; it's a way to both see who needs it and see what exact help they actually need. Sometimes they need the church to pay a bill or two, and other times it's groceries drawn from the local or regional storehouse to get through the month. When I was clerk I had to log a few checks for places like a phone company other than the one the chapel itself used, and so I've seen it happen.

Hrairoo said:

Ohhhh! I get it! So, in Mormon theology, in the premortal existence, it was already decided, before Adam and Eve were even created that Jesus Christ would come to Earth and die for our sins. The Atonement wasn't a response to Adam nd Eve's transgression but everybody was doing exactly what God wanted and planned. So, I guess what is happening here is that even if John could have protected the gospel of Christ, he didn't, because that was not what "God wanted him to do." Possibly, the Great Apostasy and Restoration was the real plan all along.

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Unfortunately not everyone does what God wants them to do.

(New Testament | 2 Thessalonians 2:1 - 3)

1 NOW we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Dale said:

Why does the LDS church own timber land? Much of the land they have acquired in Florida in the last ten years is timber land, or else it is wooded and no one knows what else they are going to do with it.

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"This purchase clearly demonstrates the depth of AgReserves’ commitment to agriculture in Florida," Paul Genho said. "We are farmers and ranchers. We’ve been ranching in Florida for 63 years. We love to grow things. We think agriculture is a noble pursuit, and we are proud to be agriculturists. We help feed the world. We love the land and strive to be good citizens in the communities where we live and work. We preserve and protect our land and natural resources and plan far into the future for the places we call home. It is our intent that this purchase will remain in agriculture for a long, long time.”

From: LDS Church makes large timberland purchase in Florida Panhandle

He is the way said:

"This purchase clearly demonstrates the depth of AgReserves’ commitment to agriculture in Florida," Paul Genho said. "We are farmers and ranchers. We’ve been ranching in Florida for 63 years. We love to grow things. We think agriculture is a noble pursuit, and we are proud to be agriculturists. We help feed the world. We love the land and strive to be good citizens in the communities where we live and work. We preserve and protect our land and natural resources and plan far into the future for the places we call home. It is our intent that this purchase will remain in agriculture for a long, long time.”

From: LDS Church makes large timberland purchase in Florida Panhandle

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So the lds church is contributing to global warming by cutting down forest land?

BigDaddy4 said:

So the lds church is contributing to global warming by cutting down forest land?

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Standard practice these days is that, at least with the logging business, to plant new growth to replace what is harvested.

Ironhold said:

Standard practice these days is that, at least with the logging business, to plant new growth to replace what is harvested.

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Standard logging industry practice or standard lds practice? Either way, not sure what that has to do with the article, which says the land will be used for agriculture?

BigDaddy4 said:

Standard logging industry practice or standard lds practice? Either way, not sure what that has to do with the article, which says the land will be used for agriculture?

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Just because land may potentially be cleared doesn't mean things won't be done to compensate ecologically.

I find it funny that when an 'apostate Church' like the medieval Roman Catholic Church owned tons of land, it's seen by restorationists like Mormons as evidence of the corruption of the Christian Church more generally, but in the modern day when its the Mormon religion and its associated corporations buying up huge tracts of land in Florida or elsewhere, we're supposed to all be okay with it cos they'll do things to 'compensate' for it.

Oh, okay then. Pass me the Kool-Aid, elder Ironhold. It's going to require two glasses at minimum for me to swallow that.

BigDaddy4 said:

Standard logging industry practice or standard lds practice? Either way, not sure what that has to do with the article, which says the land will be used for agriculture?

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Do you not like citrus trees?

dzheremi said:

I find it funny that when an 'apostate Church' like the medieval Roman Catholic Church owned tons of land, it's seen by restorationists like Mormons as evidence of the corruption of the Christian Church more generally, but in the modern day when its the Mormon religion and its associated corporations buying up huge tracts of land in Florida or elsewhere, we're supposed to all be okay with it cos they'll do things to 'compensate' for it.

Oh, okay then. Pass me the Kool-Aid, elder Ironhold. It's going to require two glasses at minimum for me to swallow that.

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I suspect it depends on what the land is being used for. Welfare farms have been in Florida for a long time. They are used to provide food those in need.

He is the way said:

Do you not like citrus trees?

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Did I say I didn't? What does whether I like them or not have to do with anything?

He is the way said:

I suspect it depends on what the land is being used for. Welfare farms have been in Florida for a long time. They are used to provide food those in need.

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Soooo...is the 'apostasy' canceled if you can claim that your Church is doing good things for people in need? Because I'm pretty sure most churches can reasonably claim that without owning a 300,000 km ranch that was worth $16 million in 2001.

A reminder: the Roman Catholic Church is the largest non-governmental provider of health care in the entire world, operating over 5,000 hospitals, around 18,000 clinics, and 16,000 homes for the elderly.

Something tells me this has absolutely zero impact on the Mormon narrative concerning other churches, though.

BigDaddy4 said:

Did I say I didn't? What does whether I like them or not have to do with anything?

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You previously said: "So the lds church is contributing to global warming by cutting down forest land?"

Why would replacing the forest with orchards contributing to global warming?

dzheremi said:

Soooo...is the 'apostasy' canceled if you can claim that your Church is doing good things for people in need? Because I'm pretty sure most churches can reasonably claim that without owning a 300,000 km ranch that was worth $16 million in 2001.

A reminder: the Roman Catholic Church is the largest non-governmental provider of health care in the entire world, operating over 5,000 hospitals, around 18,000 clinics, and 16,000 homes for the elderly.

Something tells me this has absolutely zero impact on the Mormon narrative concerning other churches, though.

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I don't believe anyone was complaining about the land being used by the Catholic Church to build over 5,000 hospitals, around 18,000 clinics, and 16,000 homes for the elderly.

He is the way said:

You previously said: "So the lds church is contributing to global warming by cutting down forest land?"

Why would replacing the forest with orchards contributing to global warming?

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For your point to be valid, you would need to show that orchards are replacing the forests. Otherwise, it's just another one of your unfounded statements.

BigDaddy4 said:

For your point to be valid, you would need to show that orchards are replacing the forests. Otherwise, it's just another one of your unfounded statements.

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Did you read the article?
"
The St. Joe Company has played an important role in conserving the landscape of Florida’s Panhandle, and AgReserves, Inc., will build on that commitment while continuing to support the local economy."

The chairman of the board of AgReserves Inc. said Friday in a statement provided to the Deseret News that the company would remain invested in agriculture and conservation.

"This purchase clearly demonstrates the depth of AgReserves’ commitment to agriculture in Florida," Paul Genho said. "We are farmers and ranchers. We’ve been ranching in Florida for 63 years. We love to grow things. We think agriculture is a noble pursuit, and we are proud to be agriculturists. We help feed the world. We love the land and strive to be good citizens in the communities where we live and work. We preserve and protect our land and natural resources and plan far into the future for the places we call home. It is our intent that this purchase will remain in agriculture for a long, long time.”

A 2011 story in the Deseret News detailed some of the operations at the Deseret Ranches. The story said the land managed more than 40,000 head of cattle. The diverse ranch also is home to about a quarter million citrus trees, timberland, sod and tree farms, some commercial crops and large deposits of fossilized seashells used in road base.

From: LDS Church makes large timberland purchase in Florida Panhandle

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