To Cease or to Continue, that is the Question

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Saint Steven

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That's you own conclusion. Now here's the answer from BibleGateway--

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 14:14-16 - Amplified Bible
No, that confirms what I am saying. (and then takes a Cessationist twist)

1 Corinthians 14:14-16 Amplified
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive [because it does not understand what my spirit is praying]. 15 Then what am I to do? I will pray with the [a]spirit [by the Holy Spirit that is within me] and I will pray with the mind [using words I understand]; I will sing with the spirit [by the Holy Spirit that is within me] and I will sing with the mind [using words I understand]. 16 Otherwise if you bless [and give thanks to God] in the spirit only, how will any outsider or someone who is not gifted [in spiritual matters] say the “Amen” [of agreement] to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?
 
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Saint Steven

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more arguments from silence as tongues is never mentioned as a gift after 1 cor 15 because it CEASED to exist as it was no longer needed.
Not true.

Evidence of Speaking in Tongues in the Early Church | Christian Assemblies International

Historical evidence of speaking in tongues in the early church from the writings of Eusebius, Irenaeus, Chrysostom of Constantinople, and Augustine of Hippo…

A.D. 33 - The day of Pentecost:
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come they were all with one accord in one place... And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." ACTS 2:1-4

A.D. 41 - At Caesarea:
"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word... For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God." ACTS 10:44-46

A.D. 54 - At Ephesus:
"And it came to pass that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost... And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came upon them: and they spoke with tongues and prophesied." ACTS 19:1-6

A.D. - At Corinth:
"Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of Spiritual gifts, see that ye may excel to the edifying of the church... Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret... I thank my God that I (Paul) speak with tongues more than ye all." 1 CORINTHIANS 14:12-18

A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says: "Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly embraced the true faith with their whole minds."

A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."

A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states: "Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.

A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days, he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman, another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."

A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."
 
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Saint Steven

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more arguments from silence as tongues is never mentioned as a gift after 1 cor 15 because it CEASED to exist as it was no longer needed.
Do the passages that mention Jesus resurrection without using the word "bodily" prove that there was no bodily resurrection? (nope) Same is true of tongues.
 
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Saint Steven

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The part you chose to omit from your reply, however, leaves no doubt that you are mistaken. See here--
Leaves no doubt that I am mistaken? Nonsense!
You were quoting from a paraphrase of the Bible. Do you know what that means? (not the Bible)

So, I take it that Cessationism is the standard Anglican position?
 
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JohnT

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lol the amplified is not even scripture.

It does not pretend to be anything than what it's preface says about what it says about what its preface describes itself"


In 1958 The Lockman Foundation and Zondervan Publishing House issued the first edition of the Amplified New Testament after more than 20,000 hours of research and prayerful study. Some four years later the first of two Old Testament volumes appeared (the Amplified Old Testament, Part Two- Job to Malachi), followed in 1964 by the publication of the Amplified Old Testament, Part One—Genesis to Esther. The next year (1965) the Amplified Bible came out in one volume. Now, twenty-two years later, Zondervan Bible Publishers and The Lockman Foundation are pleased to present the Amplified Bible, Expanded Edition. The purpose of all the characters in the story of the making of the Amplified Bible is still relevant today: to communicate the Word of God to people and to exalt Jesus Christ. This has been the fourfold aim of the Lockman Foundation from the beginning:​

1. That it should be true to the original Hebrew and Greek.
2. That it should be grammatically correct.
3. That it should be understandable to the masses.....;


About the Amplified Bible The story of the Amplified Bible is a remarkable story of faith, hope, and love. It’s the story of a woman, a foundation, a committee, and a publisher. Commitment, energy, enthusiasm, giftedness—these are the words that paint the picture, the picture of the making of a translation. Frances Siewert (Litt. B., B.D., M.A., Litt. D.) was a woman with an intense dedication to the study of the Bible. It was Mrs. Siewert (1881–1967) who laid the foundation of the Amplified Bible, devoting her life to a familiarity with the Bible, with the Hebrew and Greek languages, and with the cultural and archaeological background of Biblical times, which would result in the publication of this unique translation. Every vision need visionaries willing to follow the cause. The story of this dream is no different............
Therefore, to call the NLB a "translation " is actually a misnomer because I did not see any reference to that word in what I quoted.
 
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It does not pretend to be anything than what it's preface says about what it says about what its preface describes itself"


In 1958 The Lockman Foundation and Zondervan Publishing House issued the first edition of the Amplified New Testament after more than 20,000 hours of research and prayerful study. Some four years later the first of two Old Testament volumes appeared (the Amplified Old Testament, Part Two- Job to Malachi), followed in 1964 by the publication of the Amplified Old Testament, Part One—Genesis to Esther. The next year (1965) the Amplified Bible came out in one volume. Now, twenty-two years later, Zondervan Bible Publishers and The Lockman Foundation are pleased to present the Amplified Bible, Expanded Edition. The purpose of all the characters in the story of the making of the Amplified Bible is still relevant today: to communicate the Word of God to people and to exalt Jesus Christ. This has been the fourfold aim of the Lockman Foundation from the beginning:​

1. That it should be true to the original Hebrew and Greek.
2. That it should be grammatically correct.
3. That it should be understandable to the masses.....;


About the Amplified Bible The story of the Amplified Bible is a remarkable story of faith, hope, and love. It’s the story of a woman, a foundation, a committee, and a publisher. Commitment, energy, enthusiasm, giftedness—these are the words that paint the picture, the picture of the making of a translation. Frances Siewert (Litt. B., B.D., M.A., Litt. D.) was a woman with an intense dedication to the study of the Bible. It was Mrs. Siewert (1881–1967) who laid the foundation of the Amplified Bible, devoting her life to a familiarity with the Bible, with the Hebrew and Greek languages, and with the cultural and archaeological background of Biblical times, which would result in the publication of this unique translation. Every vision need visionaries willing to follow the cause. The story of this dream is no different............
Therefore, to call the NLB a "translation " is actually a misnomer because I did not see any reference to that word in what I quoted.
like I said its not scripture.
 
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JohnT

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more arguments from silence as tongues is never mentioned as a gift after 1 cor 15 because it CEASED to exist as it was no longer needed.

Yours is an argument from silence, friend.

Since there is nothing mentioned about tongues after 1 Corinthians 15 onward, the BEST anyone can sate is there is indeed an absence of evidence from Paul on that subject because it is simply silence. Silence on an issue can i only "prove" silence in THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE. That is the amazing property of silence.

No one can prove in any way "This is so because if the rule of silence proves that only this, nor that constituted prima facie evidence"

Like wise is your grammar statement equally false. it is false for the same reasons I stated above
 
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JohnT

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Jesus is YHWH

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Yours is an argument from silence, friend.

Since there is nothing mentioned about tongues after 1 Corinthians 15 onward, the BEST anyone can sate is there is indeed an absence of evidence from Paul on that subject because it is simply silence. Silence on an issue can i only "prove" silence in THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE. That is the amazing property of silence.

No one can prove in any way "This is so because if the rule of silence proves that only this, nor that constituted prima facie evidence"

Like wise is your grammar statement equally false. it is false for the same reasons I stated above
No problem you can believe what you want and so will I.
 
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That is NOT what you posted.



The burden of truth is in you, and those who support your thesis
I have one I use just like I would a commentary not as Scripture. You can use yours as Scripture I choose to use mine as a reference like I would any other source.
 
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Can you NOT see that you moved the goal posts?

Your second presentation was about what you essentially believed. All subsequent posts were on the issue of silence because your posts . and frankly my beliefs are irrelevant because what really matters is what the Bible says

That is as wrong today when someone first created that logical error mny years ago.it is in elementary principles of rhetoric

YOUR FIRST PRINCIPLE:

JohnT said:
Yours is also an argument from silence, friend.

Since there is nothing mentioned about tongues after 1 Corinthians 15 onward, the BEST anyone can sate is there is indeed an absence of evidence from Paul on that subject because it is simply silence.

Then the topic changed to the absence of evidence from 1 Corinthians 15 onward to "support the absence of tongues". SILENCE PROVES NOTHING OTHER THAN SILENCE ON A PARTICULAR ISSUE.

Please stick to a SINGLE ISSUE. Otherwise we will continue to go around in circles over this issue. We must go forward, not backwards. Is that not a reasonable request?

Which single issue regarging tongues do you want to discuss? Is it that they are continuing, or that they have all ceased?
 
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Therefore, to call the NLB a "translation " is actually a misnomer because I did not see any reference to that word in what I quoted.
Eight. It is actually a paraphrase of the Bible. (NT?)
 
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