To Cease or to Continue, that is the Question

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JohnT

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I am trying to put myself in the shoes of a Charismatic, to understand his point of view. As I have concluded, I believe tongues are a known foreign language, but this is not a salvation issue.

So I am fine with others who think otherwise, since I used to think like them too. ^_^

Then you are NOT a WoF person? From your posts I got the impression that you were.
 
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Saint Steven

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Tongues are definitely known languages and not todays charismatic babbling we see everywhere which is a cheap imitation.

And like Paul said ;

"I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. "

charismatic's would have us believe just the OPPOSITE lol..........

and he likens that way of thinking to that of INFANTS.
Well... the context DOES tell us the OPPOSITE.

1 Corinthians 14:18-19
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Well... the context DOES tell us the OPPOSITE.

1 Corinthians 14:18-19
I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.
duh because the hearer doesn't understand them keep reading the context

oops I forgot you like single verses instead of the context.............
 
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Saint Steven

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duh because the hearer doesn't understand them keep reading the context

oops I forgot you like single verses instead of the context.............
Keep reading? Okay.

The Apostle says, "... do not forbid speaking in tongues."
What do you say?

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Keep reading? Okay.

The Apostle says, "... do not forbid speaking in tongues."
What do you say?

1 Corinthians 14:39
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
and they ceased prior to 2 cor being written, no book in the NT mention the gift that stopped giving after .................

next........................................
 
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Saint Steven

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and they ceased prior to 2 cor being written, no book in the NT mention the gift that stopped giving after .................

next........................................
Like I said before, speaking in tongues was part of the church after Pentecost. No use writing about it when it becomes an everyday thing. Where's the news?

However, I did find this for you. The term "pray in the Spirit" is a reference to tongues.
Compare 1 Corinthians below.

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Compare:

1 Corinthians 14:14-15
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Like I said before, speaking in tongues was part of the church after Pentecost. No use writing about it when it becomes an everyday thing. Where's the news?

However, I did find this for you. The term "pray in the Spirit" is a reference to tongues.
Compare 1 Corinthians below.

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Compare:

1 Corinthians 14:14-15
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
for Pentecostals it is but not for the rest of us.
 
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Saint Steven

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for Pentecostals it is but not for the rest of us.
I just proved you wrong. Is that all you have to say? (scripture for tongues after 1 Cor.)

Saint Steven said:
Like I said before, speaking in tongues was part of the church after Pentecost. No use writing about it when it becomes an everyday thing. Where's the news?

However, I did find this for you. The term "pray in the Spirit" is a reference to tongues.
Compare 1 Corinthians below.

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Compare:

1 Corinthians 14:14-15
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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I just proved you wrong. Is that all you have to say? (scripture for tongues after 1 Cor.)

Saint Steven said:
Like I said before, speaking in tongues was part of the church after Pentecost. No use writing about it when it becomes an everyday thing. Where's the news?

However, I did find this for you. The term "pray in the Spirit" is a reference to tongues.
Compare 1 Corinthians below.

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Compare:

1 Corinthians 14:14-15
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
eph 6 is not tongues you made that up
 
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Saint Steven

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eph 6 is not tongues you made that up
MORE HAIRSPLITTING!!!!!!!!!

The Apostle Paul defines praying in the Spirit as tongues in 1 Cor. chapter fourteen.
When he uses the term in Ephesians six it also means tongues, obviously.

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Compare:

1 Corinthians 14:14-15
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
 
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Saint Steven

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Before we get too far into the weeds, what does all of this have to do with cessation vs continuation?
If there are no tongues after 1 Cor. then it is Cessationism.
If there ARE tongues after 1 Cor. then it is Continuationism.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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If there are no tongues after 1 Cor. then it is Cessationism.
If there ARE tongues after 1 Cor. then it is Continuationism.
an argument from silence since the gift is never mentioned after 1 cor
 
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Albion

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If there are no tongues after 1 Cor. then it is Cessationism.
If there ARE tongues after 1 Cor. then it is Continuationism.
Yes, we know what Cessationism and Continuationism are. However, the question asked what all the wrangling over the meaning of "pray in the Spirit" has to do with the topic of this thread, which is "to Cease or to Continue?"
 
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Saint Steven

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an argument from silence since the gift is never mentioned after 1 cor
Praying in the Spirit is tongues. See 1 Corinthians 14:14-15
Ephesians six eighteen uses the term "pray in the Spirit", therefore tongues.

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Compare:

1 Corinthians 14:14-15
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
 
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Saint Steven

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Yes, we know what Cessationism and Continuationism are. However, the question asked what all the wrangling over the meaning of "pray in the Spirit" has to do with the topic of this thread, which is "to Cease or to Continue?"
I'm sorry that it is not obvious to you.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Praying in the Spirit is tongues. See 1 Corinthians 14:14-15
Ephesians six eighteen uses the term "pray in the Spirit", therefore tongues.

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

Compare:

1 Corinthians 14:14-15
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
no because JESUS always prayed in the spirit and NEVER in tongues.

next.........................
 
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Albion

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I'm sorry that it is not obvious to you.
So there isn't any. That was my point. Let's get back on topic.

Praying in the Spirit is tongues. See 1 Corinthians 14:14-15
Ephesians six eighteen uses the term "pray in the Spirit", therefore tongues.

That's your personal conclusion. Now here's the answer from Bible Gateway--

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive [because it does not understand what my spirit is praying]. 15 Then what am I to do? I will pray with the spirit [by the Holy Spirit that is within me] and I will pray with the mind [using words I understand]; I will sing with the spirit [by the Holy Spirit that is within me] and I will sing with the mind [using words I understand]. 16 Otherwise if you bless [and give thanks to God] in the spirit only, how will any outsider or someone who is not gifted [in spiritual matters] say the “Amen” [of agreement] to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?

1
Corinthians 14:15 May refer to Paul’s spirit, the Holy Spirit, or the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 14:14-16 - Amplified Bible
 
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Saint Steven

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no because JESUS always prayed in the spirit and NEVER in tongues.

next.........................
You don't know that.
Probably why went off alone to pray. So the Cessationists couldn't hear him praying in tongues. - lol

Here's another one. Romans was written after 1st and 2nd Corinthians too.

Romans 8:26-27
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.
 
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