Can the Dietary Law Get You Cut Off From God

Strong in Him · Sep 20, 2020

Bro.T said:
Stop focusing on the rich man,

I'm not focusing on him, we were discussing him.

Bro.T said:
Keep the commandments. You have to keep the Royal law! To this day.

I've no problem at all with keeping the 10 commandments.
This thread is about dietary law, though - which is different and not relevant.

Bro.T said:
I agree with all those verses, but you have to do your part as a christian, according to the bible.

Not exactly.
Nothing we do, or can do, can contribute to our salvation. Our works are how we show our love for God. I don't know about you but as my love for God has increased my desire to serve him has increased all the more - and the motive is love and gratitude, not fear that I might not do enough to be saved, or guilt that I should be doing more to please him.

Bro.T said:
That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Don't shout.
I don't have a problem with the 10 commandments.

Bro.T said:
If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc…

But he hasn't.
The 10 commandments are for all of us and were affirmed and summed up by Jesus. The dietary laws aren't. There is no instruction about eating meat various foods in the 10 commandments, and Jesus did not tell Gentiles to obey the dietary laws - just the opposite. He and the early church taught that food cannot make someone unclean. Paul, the former Pharisee and zealous law keeper, said that food does not bring us closer to God and circumcision is nothing.[/QUOTE]

Jipsah · Sep 20, 2020

Scott Husted said:
It's interesting (though this is a pattern found throughout scripture) that God would use dietary laws, and then (like a serpent) tempt Peter to break them, all to show him the measurement (through his own reasoning) he had placed on the sacrifice of God.

Sorry, but that's simply nonense. "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man". God showed Peter stuff that he was allowed to eat. The "God tempted Peter" stuff is SDA doctrine to explain away God telling Peter that he could eat with Gentiles without worrying whether the food was kosher or not.

Jipsah · Sep 20, 2020

Bro.T said:
I'm not sure if the Lord was tempting him

He wasn't.

or if Peter just didn't understand the way the Lord communication to him.

He certainly didn't initially, but he apparently glommed onto it pretty quickly.

Scott Husted · Sep 21, 2020

Jipsah said:
Sorry, but that's simply nonense. "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man". God showed Peter stuff that he was allowed to eat. The "God tempted Peter" stuff is SDA doctrine to explain away God telling Peter that he could eat with Gentiles without worrying whether the food was kosher or not.

Our soul carries us away (or more pointedly what is in our soul), which is a an ongoing consensus; a cross picked up in type.

God can't be tempted ... in this sense there is no evil in God so he cannot tempt with it, just as Jesus said, the devil had no place in him ... yet he moved or enticed David to number the people, and in another telling Satan stands up and is the one who moves or enticed David. It is the garden scenario in a different package.

God is not the author of confusion yet he confounds the whole of mankind at the place where they try to build their own name, which is what God said he would do to Jeremiah if he became afraid of their faces.

If I put a big fat slice of cake in front of you after you had swore to me that you would never eat sugar or carbs again what would I be doing to you ... (to me this is like Jesus insinuating to the one that called him good that he was not good ... or telling a richman to sell all that he has).

A better question would be why ...

Jesus said lead me not into temptation which he had first hand experience with when he was both driven and led into a wilderness to be tempted over the words God spoke to him at the Jordan.

Peter (along with the rest of his buddies) had a very low opinion of the gentiles, and after all he had heard Jesus call them dogs ... but on the other hand, he commended one of them as being above all those who were in Israel ...

If it were about food and who you ate it with Peter would have said, and after he repeated to the others what had happened their consensus was the same, that it didn't have to do with eating food, let alone eatung with gentiles (which at the moment I don't remember any mosaic law to that effect), but with their perception of exactly who could be saved. God gave his only son for all mankind not just the Jews was something obviously most of them had not overly considered, still believing it was hard even for a rich Jew to be saved despite what Jesus had said was possible with God.

God had commanded that Peter not call what he had cleansed unclean, which up to this point the law of Peter's own mind would not allow him to do ...

Junia · Sep 22, 2020

Jamdoc said:
I want to call out that, I don't think the dietary laws were meant to be restrictive for no reason, I think they were established to protect us from animals that would carry diseases that could be transmissable to us, or that we're commonly allergic to (such as shellfish).
These were given to people who were wandering in the wilderness and did not have the sanitation and preservation means to make sure that things like worms in pork weren't an issue for them.

God declared at the very least, Pork, clean in Acts 10:11-15, There had to have been pork at the least that was considered clean because Peter balked when God told him to rise, kill, and eat. That means there was SOMETHING in that vessel that was at one time considered unclean. God rebuked him and said that everything in that vessel, including all four footed beasts of the earth, such as pigs, was made clean.

If it's a stumbling block to you by all means, but I will eat pork with thanksgiving, having faith that Acts is also, the word of God.

We have been made righteous by what Jesus did for us . We are made clean already. But there may be good health reasons why good to avoid unclean foods. I don't fancy eating bat, for example

Junia · Sep 22, 2020

Strong in Him said:
All need to be saved by Christ, yes.
Accepting Christ does not mean first obeying and following the OT law.

Yes, it's through Christ who gives eternal life, not the law, which doesn't.

EVERY word? Really?
How many people have you stoned to death for not keeping the Sabbath or for committing adultery?
Do you wear clothes made from only one fabric?
Do you offer animal sacrifices?
Do you rise in the presence of your elders?
Have you ever trimmed the hair at the sides of your head, or your beard?
Have you been circumcised?
Do you avoid women at certain times of the month and after they have given birth, and burn anything which they have been wearing and which you touch?
Do you abstain from ALL the foods listed in Leviticus?
When I have asked these things before, I have been told that these are only the Jewish oral tradition and do not need to be kept - but they are all recorded in the Bible; God said these things to Moses.

If you do obey all of the above; good.
But then you also have a problem, because:
One of the commandments is you shall not murder - and it's against our law too.
Christ is our sacrifice, offered once and for all for sin. Even the Jews don't offer animal sacrifices now.
Paul said that circumcision is nothing, cannot save and that if anyone is circumcised it means that Christ died for nothing.
Jesus touched a woman who had been bleeding for many years and called her daughter.
Jesus and Paul said that food does not make someone unclean and cannot bring you closer to God.

Yes, if we have the Holy Spirit - after we have been born again - we are God's children. I said that.

Nope - we only need Jesus.
Jesus alone saves; not Jesus + the law, Jesus + baptism, Jesus + obeying "correct" church practice, or anything else.
Jesus is the giver of eternal life, John 3:16, John 3:36, 1 John 5:12.
The work of God is to believe in the one that he sent, John 6:29.
God's will is that everyone who believes in Jesus has eternal life and is saved, John 6:40.
There is no other name given to men by which we are saved, Acts of the Apostles 4:12.
Jesus never said "keep the law and you will be saved", only "believe in me."

Jesus said, "I WILL build my church", not "I started building my church centuries ago and you get to join it if you do all the right things".

Given to a specific group of people.

You do realise that the commandments are love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbour as yourself, and the rich young man was showing only that he loved his neighbour - he didn't mention God at all?
You do realise that the thing that was preventing him from loving God and putting him first was his great wealth, which is why Jesus told him to sell his possessions and give to the poor?

You keep every iota of the OT law if it makes you feel good it doesn't save; only Jesus does. Personally, I am in Christ, not the OT law.

Yes and amen

Junia · Sep 22, 2020

Danigt22 said:
"3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise."

You are also disobeying the apostle James making your own rules with the scriptures. If you cant see you are a Judaizer Im sorry for you. I wont be answering anymore.

I

You speak truth brother . Bless you

Junia · Sep 22, 2020

Bro.T said:
Twelve tribes make of Israel and one tribe of them is Juda. Somes tribes where call Jews, but the people who called Jewish today are not the true Israelites. The true Israelites or Jews are still in captivity to this day. So there's a difference. Jesus says in Revelation 3:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Paul says in Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. This is a topic for another time, I just wanted to share this.

I

Sorry this is a bit off topic but am curious. If the real Israelites are in captivity then who are they? I cannot think of any one people group who are still in captivity?

Junia · Sep 22, 2020

Bro.T said:
We must understand brothers and sisters there is no degree of sin. If we break one of the laws, we break them all, and the sentence for transgressing the Lord's laws is death. What we must do is keep ourselves from willful sin.

Let us take a look at Noah for a moment. This is before God's people as you say. Pay Attention...Take a look at this verse in Genesis the 9th chapter and the 3rd verse.

Some one might say, "see we can eat anything that our heart's desire." Let us reason together brothers and sisters. Who wrote the book of Genesis? Moses, when he was moved by the Holy Spirit, correct? Who wrote Leviticus the 11th chapter? Moses! So, everything that was created to be received shall be eaten. Let us back up to the 7th chapter of Genesis. When I first laid eyes on these two verses, I was amazed how even the simplest thing in the word of God is hidden to those that do not read His book. Take a look at this.

And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. (Genesis 7:1-2)

Here we see the dietary law being instituted. Here we see the difference in clean and unclean being shown seven chapters from the beginning of the book. So, this lets us know that the dietary law was brought into being along side the Royal law (commandments) even before Abraham came on the scene. Now that we have seen when the dietary law was instituted and also looked at the dietary law itself. Let us return to the new book take note to what the Lord say to the scribes and Pharisees.

Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. (John 5:45)

Well, modern day church people think Moses' laws are nailed to the cross. So, they don't trust in Moses, they trust in rev. X Y or Z. But, notice this;

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:46-47)

So, if you call yourself a New Testament Christian, and don't read and believe Moses' writings, how can you believe in Jesus? In conclusion sisters and brothers, this is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. Leviticus 11:46-47 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Leviticus 11:44)

This is interesting. Although what we eat or don't eat cannot affect our salvation, the scriptures about Noah do show that there has always been such a thing as clean and unclean food.

also things are lawful for us but not all are helpful, as Paul said. So maybe eating ham or octopus just isn't helpful for us??

Bro.T--2 · Sep 22, 2020

Strong in Him said:
I'm not focusing on him, we were discussing him.

I've no problem at all with keeping the 10 commandments.
This thread is about dietary law, though - which is different and not relevant.

Not exactly.
Nothing we do, or can do, can contribute to our salvation. Our works are how we show our love for God. I don't know about you but as my love for God has increased my desire to serve him has increased all the more - and the motive is love and gratitude, not fear that I might not do enough to be saved, or guilt that I should be doing more to please him.

Don't shout.
I don't have a problem with the 10 commandments.

But he hasn't.
The 10 commandments are for all of us and were affirmed and summed up by Jesus. The dietary laws aren't. There is no instruction about eating meat various foods in the 10 commandments, and Jesus did not tell Gentiles to obey the dietary laws - just the opposite. He and the early church taught that food cannot make someone unclean. Paul, the former Pharisee and zealous law keeper, said that food does not bring us closer to God and circumcision is nothing.

[/QUOTE]

Strong in Him said:
Not exactly.
Nothing we do, or can do, can contribute to our salvation. Our works are how we show our love for God. I don't know about you but as my love for God has increased my desire to serve him has increased all the more - and the motive is love and gratitude, not fear that I might not do enough to be saved, or guilt that I should be doing more to please him.

Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.

Strong in Him said:
Don't shout.
I don't have a problem with the 10 commandments.

Thats great to hear.

Strong in Him said:
But he hasn't.
The 10 commandments are for all of us and were affirmed and summed up by Jesus. The dietary laws aren't. There is no instruction about eating meat various foods in the 10 commandments, and Jesus did not tell Gentiles to obey the dietary laws - just the opposite. He and the early church taught that food cannot make someone unclean. Paul, the former Pharisee and zealous law keeper, said that food does not bring us closer to God and circumcision is nothing.

For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 66:15-17) The Lord says' by the mouth of Isaiah that those that eat swine's flesh (pork) shall be consumed.

Just in case we have forgotten who this Lord is, let us go to II Thessalonians chapter one, and start at the sixth verse and we will see that it is Jesus that Isaiah is referring to and not the Father.

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (II Thessalonians 1:6-9)

Note what the eighth verse states, "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God." Paul was quoting Isaiah the 66th chapter and the 15th verse, where it states, "For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire." These individuals that receive the Lord's vengeance know Him not and obey not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Future event, plus

Paul says in Roman 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Bro.T--2 · Sep 22, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
I

Sorry this is a bit off topic but am curious. If the real Israelites are in captivity then who are they? I cannot think of any one people group who are still in captivity?

The God of Israel (The God of the Bible) pronounced a sentence upon Israel. He told them that if they would not keep his laws and abide by his rules, he would curse them, telling them exactly what would befall them. Israel broke his laws and did not keep his rules, so the Lord cursed them as he said he would. (See Deuteronomy 28th chapter).

In the 28th chapter, it should be understood that a lot of these things happened over the course of many years, continuing down to our time. Because this curse was pronounces upon Israel when Israel first became a nation, many of these curses occurred before our time and we don't recognize some of them, but some we do. Those we recognize are the ones that we will point out. The Lord said these curses will be upon us for a sign and wonder; (sign means to identify and wonder is to ask why).

See Deuteronomy 28, verses 28-30: "the Lord shall smite thee with madness", meaning you will be constantly angry because of the conditions; "blindness", having no knowledge of your history and self; "astonishment of heart", meaning always greatly surprised and amazed at your condition; "thou shalt grope at noonday as the blind gropeth in darkness", meaning to feel about or search or seek with blindness, and not certain or don't know what you are looking for (as if you were looking for something in a dark place and had no light); "thou shall not prosper in thy ways; and thou shall be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee; thou shall betroth a wife and another man shall lie with her; thou shall build a house and thou shall not dwell therein; thou shalt plant vineyards and shalt not gather the grapes thereof", meaning you work, but someone else will reap the proceeds; "thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people and thine eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all the day long; and there shall be no might in thine hand", meaning your children will be sold and you will see them being sold by someone else and will not be able to do anything about it (remember Roots and "Slave Trading"); "the fruit of thy land and all thy labors shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up: and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway.....thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see."

Bro.T--2 · Sep 22, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
I

Sorry this is a bit off topic but am curious. If the real Israelites are in captivity then who are they? I cannot think of any one people group who are still in captivity?

error

Bro.T--2 · Sep 22, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
I

Sorry this is a bit off topic but am curious. If the real Israelites are in captivity then who are they? I cannot think of any one people group who are still in captivity?

Sorry

Bro.T--2 · Sep 22, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
I

Sorry this is a bit off topic but am curious. If the real Israelites are in captivity then who are they? I cannot think of any one people group who are still in captivity?

sorry

Bro.T--2 · Sep 22, 2020

sorry for the duplicates

Bro.T--2 · Sep 22, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
This is interesting. Although what we eat or don't eat cannot affect our salvation, the scriptures about Noah do show that there has always been such a thing as clean and unclean food.

also things are lawful for us but not all are helpful, as Paul said. So maybe eating ham or octopus just isn't helpful for us??

For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 66:15-17) The Lord says' by the mouth of Isaiah that those that eat swine's flesh (pork) shall be consumed.

Just in case we have forgotten who this Lord is, let us go to II Thessalonians chapter one, and start at the sixth verse and we will see that it is Jesus that Isaiah is referring to and not the Father.

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (II Thessalonians 1:6-9)

Note what the eighth verse states, "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God." Paul was quoting Isaiah the 66th chapter and the 15th verse, where it states, "For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire." These individuals that receive the Lord's vengeance know Him not and obey not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Future event

Bro.T--2 · Sep 22, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
I

You speak truth brother . Bless you

Praise the Lord in Jesus name

Strong in Him · Sep 23, 2020

Bro.T said:
These individuals that receive the Lord's vengeance know Him not and obey not the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I do obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said nothing about Gentiles needing to keep OT dietary laws. Fact.
You can carry on finding odd verses, putting them together with OT passages and using them to try to prove your point if you like.
Jesus Christ, God on earth, the Messiah and Saviour of the world has offered his life as a sacrifice to reconcile both Jew and Gentile to God. This is the only way of salvation. Both Jew and Gentile ARE the same before God because we are both saved by his Son; not by our own efforts, but by the blood of Christ. An unbeliever who has heard of Jesus and rejected him is in the same position, spiritually, as a Jew who has rejected God's Messiah.

Christ has now made it possible for both Jew and Gentile to be saved and reconciled to God. This does not mean that he says "right, now that you Gentiles are my people, you are subject to the law that the ancient Hebrews had to keep to show that they were my people. You have to keep all the rules that I gave them."
That would make a mockery of what Christ did - it is HE who has reconciled us to God, made us God's people and saved us. Jesus makes us holy, gives us eternal life, makes us children of God, not laws given to Moses.

I don't see any point in continuing this discussion. You will disagree with what I have just said - ignoring all the Scriptures I have previously given showing that only Jesus gives eternal life, while avoiding my questions about whether you keep ALL the laws of Leviticus - and I will disagree with your reason for saying so.

Like I have said; you carry on obeying the law if you want to.

Scott Husted · Sep 23, 2020

Strong in Him said:
I do obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said nothing about Gentiles needing to keep OT dietary laws. Fact.
You can carry on finding odd verses, putting them together with OT passages and using them to try to prove your point if you like.
Jesus Christ, God on earth, the Messiah and Saviour of the world has offered his life as a sacrifice to reconcile both Jew and Gentile to God. This is the only way of salvation. Both Jew and Gentile ARE the same before God because we are both saved by his Son; not by our own efforts, but by the blood of Christ. An unbeliever who has heard of Jesus and rejected him is in the same position, spiritually, as a Jew who has rejected God's Messiah.

Christ has now made it possible for both Jew and Gentile to be saved and reconciled to God. This does not mean that he says "right, now that you Gentiles are my people, you are subject to the law that the ancient Hebrews had to keep to show that they were my people. You have to keep all the rules that I gave them."
That would make a mockery of what Christ did - it is HE who has reconciled us to God, made us God's people and saved us. Jesus makes us holy, gives us eternal life, makes us children of God, not laws given to Moses.

I don't see any point in continuing this discussion. You will disagree with what I have just said - ignoring all the Scriptures I have previously given showing that only Jesus gives eternal life, while avoiding my questions about whether you keep ALL the laws of Leviticus - and I will disagree with your reason for saying so.

Like I have said; you carry on obeying the law if you want to.

Peter consider this issue as tempting God ...

Junia · Sep 23, 2020

Bro.T said:
The God of Israel (The God of the Bible) pronounced a sentence upon Israel. He told them that if they would not keep his laws and abide by his rules, he would curse them, telling them exactly what would befall them. Israel broke his laws and did not keep his rules, so the Lord cursed them as he said he would. (See Deuteronomy 28th chapter).

In the 28th chapter, it should be understood that a lot of these things happened over the course of many years, continuing down to our time. Because this curse was pronounces upon Israel when Israel first became a nation, many of these curses occurred before our time and we don't recognize some of them, but some we do. Those we recognize are the ones that we will point out. The Lord said these curses will be upon us for a sign and wonder; (sign means to identify and wonder is to ask why).

See Deuteronomy 28, verses 28-30: "the Lord shall smite thee with madness", meaning you will be constantly angry because of the conditions; "blindness", having no knowledge of your history and self; "astonishment of heart", meaning always greatly surprised and amazed at your condition; "thou shalt grope at noonday as the blind gropeth in darkness", meaning to feel about or search or seek with blindness, and not certain or don't know what you are looking for (as if you were looking for something in a dark place and had no light); "thou shall not prosper in thy ways; and thou shall be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee; thou shall betroth a wife and another man shall lie with her; thou shall build a house and thou shall not dwell therein; thou shalt plant vineyards and shalt not gather the grapes thereof", meaning you work, but someone else will reap the proceeds; "thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people and thine eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all the day long; and there shall be no might in thine hand", meaning your children will be sold and you will see them being sold by someone else and will not be able to do anything about it (remember Roots and "Slave Trading"); "the fruit of thy land and all thy labors shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up: and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway.....thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see."

The Israelites were enslaved in Egypt. The transatlantic slave trade did not.involve enslaving Israelites

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