God`s Plan.

Marilyn C · Sep 22, 2020

Michael Collum said:
That sounds odd since Jesus said all power in heaven and earth was given to Him ... so the first part seems unnecessary and is too lucifer centric.

The bible tends to focus on humans because it is written to us, and about the earth because we live here.

Centering the focus on angels is off thesis - Jesus is the thesis.

Hi Michael,

Yes God`s word centres on Christ and for Him to be pre-eminent. And that means above all and ruling IN God great kingdom as well. Christ does not rule visibly from the Father`s throne but from His OWN THRONE.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on MY THRONE, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on HIS THRONE.` (Rev. 3: 21)

God the Father, (Spirit) His `throne, authority is beyond the created order. He desires that His Son in His glorified visible human form should be clearly seen and should rule from the highest realm in His great kingdom, that is, the third heaven.

An angel was given opportunity to rule there but became proud and cast out. Thus no angel will ever rule from there again. We know that only the Lord Jesus Christ is worthy to rule from the third heaven and over all other realms. He made them all and they are for Him, `that in all things He may have the pre-eminence.` (Col. 1: 16 - 18)

Marilyn C · Sep 22, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Well no it's not just heaven, it's after the resurrection.
Matthew 22:30

Luke 20:34-36

So once resurrected, marriage and children are no longer possibilities. I wish someone had asked Jesus more on this but the Sadducees only seemed to care about marriage as a means of getting heirs for inheritance purposes.

But either way, Jesus said no marriage after the resurrection, and also no oceans in the new earth. Both are up there in "Jesus tells us bad news" right up there with "In this world ye shall have tribulation" and "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."

Hi Jamdoc,

There will be nations on the new earth. People from there will marry. (Rev. 21: 24)

Also the seas as we know now are a result of the fountains of the deep being opened up during the flood. Thus `seas` as we know it will not be on the new earth.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 22, 2020

Marilyn C said:
Hi Michael,

Yes God`s word centres on Christ and for Him to be pre-eminent. And that means above all and ruling IN God great kingdom as well. Christ does not rule visibly from the Father`s throne but from His OWN THRONE.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on MY THRONE, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on HIS THRONE.` (Rev. 3: 21)

God the Father, (Spirit) His `throne, authority is beyond the created order. He desires that His Son in His glorified visible human form should be clearly seen and should rule from the highest realm in His great kingdom, that is, the third heaven.

An angel was given opportunity to rule there but became proud and cast out. Thus no angel will ever rule from there again. We know that only the Lord Jesus Christ is worthy to rule from the third heaven and over all other realms. He made them all and they are for Him, `that in all things He may have the pre-eminence.` (Col. 1: 16 - 18)

My main focus here is that in the beginning was the voice, and the voice was with God - and the voice was God, and the voice became flesh and lived among us full of grace and truth.

It is also written that the voice of God was walking in the garden during the cool of the day. So when it is said the word was there in the beginning, it speaks of that voice that walked around in the garden during the cool of the day.

The original ruler was Adam, and the last Adam - Jesus Christ took the rulership back already.

Jamdoc · Sep 22, 2020

Marilyn C said:
Hi Jamdoc,

There will be nations on the new earth. People from there will marry. (Rev. 21: 24)

Also the seas as we know now are a result of the fountains of the deep being opened up during the flood. Thus `seas` as we know it will not be on the new earth.

Nothing about marriage in Revelation 21. The only scripture we have to go on, is where Jesus says we will NOT marry in the resurrected state.
Now I don't know if Jesus meant that there's no male+female companionship or relationships in that state, maybe there's a new thing LIKE marriage but better, but to the best of our knowledge, we don't have marriages between humans anymore, and Paul, betrothed us all to Jesus 2 Corinthians 11:2
That's all we have to go off of.
Like I said, I wish someone had asked more questions of Jesus in that part of the gospels.

Jamdoc · Sep 22, 2020

Michael Collum said:
My main focus here is that in the beginning was the voice, and the voice was with God - and the voice was God, and the voice became flesh and lived among us full of grace and truth.

It is also written that the voice of God was walking in the garden during the cool of the day. So when it is said the word was there in the beginning, it speaks of that voice that walked around during the cool of the day.

The original ruler was Adam, and the last Adam - Jesus Christ took the rulership back already.

Jesus has sovereignty, but Satan has stewardship, it was granted to him by the sovereign Father.
Luke 4:5-6

5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

and before you say but Jesus took it back when He ascended to heaven and sits on the right hand of God! Yes, Jesus has sovereignty at that moment, but stewardship is still delegated, Satan still has authority over the earth delegated to Him.
How do you know? well. Revelation 13:2, that is, at around the time of the end of this world, Satan is able to give power, authority, and his seat to the beast, the beast then rules the entire world. So that is what Satan gave him, the authority that had been vested in him by God. As he offered to to Jesus when Jesus was tempted, he offers it to the antichrist, who takes it.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

If Satan had been stripped of all his authority on earth, he wouldn't have it to give to someone else.

When does Jesus finally strip the stewardship of Satan and his antichrist away?

Revelation 11:15

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

After the 7th trumpet judgement.
Mind you, Revelation is not entirely in chronological order. Events in Revelation 13, are taking place before events in Revelation 11, because Revelation 11 is talking about the end of this world and final judgement.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 22, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Jesus has sovereignty, but Satan has stewardship, it was granted to him by the sovereign Father.
Luke 4:5-6

and before you say but Jesus took it back when He ascended to heaven and sits on the right hand of God! Yes, Jesus has sovereignty at that moment, but stewardship is still delegated, Satan still has authority over the earth delegated to Him.
How do you know? well. Revelation 13:2, that is, at around the time of the end of this world, Satan is able to give power, authority, and his seat to the beast, the beast then rules the entire world. So that is what Satan gave him, the authority that had been vested in him by God. As he offered to to Jesus when Jesus was tempted, he offers it to the antichrist, who takes it.

If Satan had been stripped of all his authority on earth, he wouldn't have it to give to someone else.

When does Jesus finally strip the stewardship of Satan and his antichrist away?

Revelation 11:15

After the 7th trumpet judgement.
Mind you, Revelation is not entirely in chronological order. Events in Revelation 13, are taking place before events in Revelation 11, because Revelation 11 is talking about the end of this world and final judgement.

Satan has authority because of sin, that's it.

Once sin and death is gone, zero power.

Once there's a new heaven and new earth, old delegations of power that are alluded to but not specified in the bible are also null and void.

Marilyn C · Sep 22, 2020

Michael Collum said:
My main focus here is that in the beginning was the voice, and the voice was with God - and the voice was God, and the voice became flesh and lived among us full of grace and truth.

It is also written that the voice of God was walking in the garden during the cool of the day. So when it is said the word was there in the beginning, it speaks of that voice that walked around in the garden during the cool of the day.

The original ruler was Adam, and the last Adam - Jesus Christ took the rulership back already.

Yes Jesus has taken back every rulership, earth, and the heavens. However he is NOT yet visibly ruling in the third heaven. He is with the Father over all in the Godhead and no one can see them.

Marilyn C · Sep 22, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Jesus has sovereignty, but Satan has stewardship, it was granted to him by the sovereign Father.
Luke 4:5-6.

Satan only holds `sway` over people. He was not given any authority he usurped it by deceiving man. God is only giving time for Satan to reveal his rulership and show that he is not worthy to rule.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 22, 2020

Marilyn C said:
Yes Jesus has taken back every rulership, earth, and the heavens. However he is NOT yet visibly ruling in the third heaven. He is with the Father over all in the Godhead and no one can see them.

The coming of the Kingdom of God cannot be seen, it is written - so whether we see it or not is irrelevant.

Marilyn C · Sep 22, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Nothing about marriage in Revelation 21. The only scripture we have to go on, is where Jesus says we will NOT marry in the resurrected state.
Now I don't know if Jesus meant that there's no male+female companionship or relationships in that state, maybe there's a new thing LIKE marriage but better, but to the best of our knowledge, we don't have marriages between humans anymore, and Paul, betrothed us all to Jesus 2 Corinthians 11:2
That's all we have to go off of.
Like I said, I wish someone had asked more questions of Jesus in that part of the gospels.

The people of the nations that will be on the earth will still be able to marry as God planned that in the beginning. No `oops,` or anything can stop God carrying out His original purpose for people on the earth.

The Body of Christ, however is not an earthly nation but a heavenly one and we do not marry, as the Lord said, and neither do the OT saints who will be in the New Jerusalem lower down in the universal area.

Marilyn C · Sep 22, 2020

Michael Collum said:
The coming of the Kingdom of God cannot be seen, it is written - so whether we see it or not is irrelevant.

I think you are referring to the coming of the kingdom rulership to Israel that Jesus was speaking to them about.

I was referring to the Godhead which no one can see or will ever as they are Spirit and beyond all they created.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 22, 2020

Marilyn C said:
I think you are referring to the coming of the kingdom rulership to Israel that Jesus was speaking to them about.

I was referring to the Godhead which no one can see or will ever as they are Spirit and beyond all they created.

When the sky rolls back like a scroll, God will be totally visible. Totally written.

Jamdoc · Sep 22, 2020

Michael Collum said:
Satan has authority because of sin, that's it.

Once sin and death is gone, zero power.

Once there's a new heaven and new earth, old delegations of power that are alluded to but not specified in the bible are also null and void.

Correct, but the point was, I think Marilyn was making this as well, that Jesus comes back, strips away stewardship from Satan. That Satan still has stewardship that has to be dealt with.

Marilyn C · Sep 22, 2020

Michael Collum said:
When the sky rolls back like a scroll, God will be totally visible. Totally written.

`He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honour and everlasting power. Amen.` (1 Tim. 6: 16)

Gregory Thompson · Sep 22, 2020

Jamdoc said:
Correct, but the point was, I think Marilyn was making this as well, that Jesus comes back, strips away stewardship from Satan. That Satan still has stewardship that has to be dealt with.

I don't see it that way.

No need to glorify anyone but Jesus.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 22, 2020

Marilyn C said:
`He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of Kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honour and everlasting power. Amen.` (1 Tim. 6: 16)

And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (Revelation 6:16-17)

Jamdoc · Sep 22, 2020

Michael Collum said:
I don't see it that way.

No need to glorify anyone but Jesus.

It's not glorifying anyone, it's just acknowledgement of the truth, that for some reason in God's purposes, Satan still maintains power and authority on Earth and that Jesus will strip him of it during His second coming.
Proverbs 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Marilyn C · Sep 22, 2020

Michael Collum said:
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (Revelation 6:16-17)

The `face` refers to God`s authority and awesome power. He is a Spirit and thus does not have a human face. (John 4: 23) However the glorified Son of God does have a human body, (glorified) and as such we will see Him and become like Him. Oh wondrous day.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 23, 2020

Jamdoc said:
It's not glorifying anyone, it's just acknowledgement of the truth, that for some reason in God's purposes, Satan still maintains power and authority on Earth and that Jesus will strip him of it during His second coming.
Proverbs 16:4

So, when someone is having an exorcism - how does the acknowledgement of this idea of yours set someone free? It doesn't. Therefore, it is not truth.

As it is written, the truth will set you free.

Gregory Thompson · Sep 23, 2020

Marilyn C said:
The `face` refers to God`s authority and awesome power. He is a Spirit and thus does not have a human face. (John 4: 23) However the glorified Son of God does have a human body, (glorified) and as such we will see Him and become like Him. Oh wondrous day.

Didn't address my post in context of previous conversation.

God`s Plan.

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Watching and Praying Always

Watching and Praying Always

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Watching and Praying Always

Pre-tribulation.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Watching and Praying Always

Pre-tribulation.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Similar threads