Riots Riots Everywhere

rjs330 · Sep 22, 2020

ZNP said:
Insulting to NYC and an effort to withhold funding to the US

Deblasio is directly responsible for what's happening in his city. Violence is increasing there have been cuts to the police and law and order has diminished.

If ongoing violence and rioting occurs and the city fails to act and fails to ask for help to stop it if you hey can't, them why should we help them with more federal money.

Here's the criteria to be considered for this.

Whether a jurisdiction forbids the police force from intervening to restore order amid widespread or sustained violence or destruction.
Whether a jurisdiction has withdrawn law enforcement protection from a geographical area or structure that law enforcement officers are lawfully entitled to access but have been officially prevented from accessing or permitted to access only in exceptional circumstances, except when law enforcement officers are briefly withheld as a tactical decision intended to resolve safely and expeditiously a specific and ongoing unlawful incident posing an imminent threat to the safety of individuals or law enforcement officers.
Whether a jurisdiction disempowers or defunds police departments.
Whether a jurisdiction unreasonably refuses to accept offers of law enforcement assistance from the Federal Government.
Any other related factors the Attorney General deems appropriate.

Heres how NY stacks up.

Shootings in New York City have been on the rise since looting and protests began on or about May 28, 2020. For July 2020, shootings increased from 88 to 244, an increase of 177% over July 2019. In August 2020, shootings increased from 91 to 242, a 166% increase over August 2019.
While the city faced increased unrest, gun violence, and property damage, the New York City Council cut $1 billion from NYPD’s FY21 budget.
The budget resulted in the cancellation of the new police recruiting class, cuts to overtime spending, and the transfer of certain police functions, including school safety, out of the NYPD.
Meanwhile, the Manhattan and Brooklyn District Attorneys have declined to prosecute charges of disorderly conduct and unlawful assembly arising from the protests, and the District Attorneys in Queens and the Bronx have declined to prosecute other protest-related charges.
Both Mayor de Blasio and Governor Cuomo have forcefully rejected federal law enforcement support.

So there appears to be some legitimacy to being considered. It doesn't mean it's going to happen and it also doesn't mean ALL federal dollars will be withheld. And it also doesn't mean any will be withheld. I guess we will wait and see.

rturner76 · Sep 22, 2020

rjs330 said:
I believe it's the leftists here that are doing 99% of the rioting, assaulting, burning and pilliaging.
I wonder if they are really trying to start the war.

No, that would be the Aryan Nation, check their manifesto.

People are going to keep reacting as long as the government continues to murder unarmed black citizens. Poor people and minorities have had enough.

DaisyDay · Sep 22, 2020

rjs330 said:
Well sorry cause I read wikipedia and it sounded exactly like what you said. Then I looked at the other sources I mentioned and they said something different than you said and different than wikipedia. So I guess you can see where I was coming from.

Uh-huh. On the other hand, you could've just hovered over the link I included to see what it was - you didn't even have to click on it to check it out.

But you didn't really address my questions on the riots. You are coming across as downplaying them. And I think all rational people can agree with us that riots are terrible scary things and the mobs are hard to control. But the question I have for you is ARE THEY JUSTIFIED?

I did answer, sorry if you didn't understand. To be very super extra clear: no, riots are not justified, not good.

Once you answer that question I will be happy to answer yours regarding the peaceful protests.

Well?

And the length of a single riot is not the issue. It's the amount of riots and the length of time they have been rioting. It's been since May. 4.5 months and still going.

Goose, gander. If it's not the length of a single riot, then the Red Summer - which is more that just the Chicago riot - is still winning. If it's not the length of a single riot, then how are you measuring the length? From start to finish of one riot added to the running total of each? The start of the first to the end of the last including all the peaceful days in between? Weird math.

From History.com:

History.com said:
During the Red Summer, massive anxiety became mass violence. Between April and November of 1919, there would be approximately 25 riots and instances of mob violence, 97 recorded lynchings, and a three day long massacre in Elaine, Arkansas during which over 200 black men, women, and children were killed after black sharecroppers tried to organize for better working conditions.

National Geographic says:

NatGeo said:
The East St. Louis Massacre launched a reign of racial terror throughout the U.S. that historians say stretched from 1917 to 1923, when the all-Black town of Rosewood, Florida, was destroyed. During that period, known as the Red Summer, at least 97 lynchings were recorded, thousands of Black people were killed, and thousands of Black-owned homes and businesses were burned to the ground. Fire and fury fueled massacres in at least 26 cities, including Washington, D.C.; Chicago, Illinois; Omaha, Nebraska; Elaine, Arkansas; Charleston, South Carolina; Columbia, Tennessee; Houston, Texas; and Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Gosh, that is years, not months from the site of your choice!

NatGeo mentions first a riot that started on July 1st, but they don't mention a start and end date for each of their 25:

For an hour and 30 minutes on the evening of July 1, the reporter witnessed barbaric scenes of white mobs “destroying the life of every discoverable black man.” The gruesome displays of racial violence were among the worst the United States would ever see.

The World War site (I don't know, of course, if this is the one you meant since you didn't link to any) mentions first a 4-day riot in DC starting July 19th, but they don't enumerate all the riots or give an ending date.

From Arcgis:

Arcgis.com said:
Millen, GA - April 14th, 1919 - The first documented and verified Red Summer “race riot" occurred in the Spring in Millen, Ga. A news article recalls that "a white mob attacked the cultural icons of the black community there, burning down the symbols of their religious and social solidarity. The next day “six fatalities were reported (two white officers and 4 black men) . . . [with] several negro lodges and church buildings” burned.

They detail 13 others, the last being Elaine in October.

For the most complete documentation (not a simple narrative): Archive:Visualizing The Red Summer

All in all, not only are the riots of 1919 comparable to those of 2020, but a lot more horrific and damaging.

ZNP · Sep 22, 2020

rjs330 said:
Deblasio is directly responsible for what's happening in his city. Violence is increasing there have been cuts to the police and law and order has diminished.

If ongoing violence and rioting occurs and the city fails to act and fails to ask for help to stop it if you hey can't, them why should we help them with more federal money.

Here's the criteria to be considered for this.

Whether a jurisdiction forbids the police force from intervening to restore order amid widespread or sustained violence or destruction.

Whether a jurisdiction has withdrawn law enforcement protection from a geographical area or structure that law enforcement officers are lawfully entitled to access but have been officially prevented from accessing or permitted to access only in exceptional circumstances, except when law enforcement officers are briefly withheld as a tactical decision intended to resolve safely and expeditiously a specific and ongoing unlawful incident posing an imminent threat to the safety of individuals or law enforcement officers.

Whether a jurisdiction disempowers or defunds police departments.

Whether a jurisdiction unreasonably refuses to accept offers of law enforcement assistance from the Federal Government.

Any other related factors the Attorney General deems appropriate.

Heres how NY stacks up.

Shootings in New York City have been on the rise since looting and protests began on or about May 28, 2020. For July 2020, shootings increased from 88 to 244, an increase of 177% over July 2019. In August 2020, shootings increased from 91 to 242, a 166% increase over August 2019.

While the city faced increased unrest, gun violence, and property damage, the New York City Council cut $1 billion from NYPD’s FY21 budget.

The budget resulted in the cancellation of the new police recruiting class, cuts to overtime spending, and the transfer of certain police functions, including school safety, out of the NYPD.

Meanwhile, the Manhattan and Brooklyn District Attorneys have declined to prosecute charges of disorderly conduct and unlawful assembly arising from the protests, and the District Attorneys in Queens and the Bronx have declined to prosecute other protest-related charges.

Both Mayor de Blasio and Governor Cuomo have forcefully rejected federal law enforcement support.

So there appears to be some legitimacy to being considered. It doesn't mean it's going to happen and it also doesn't mean ALL federal dollars will be withheld. And it also doesn't mean any will be withheld. I guess we will wait and see.

Have any of those shootings taken place during the "riots" you are saying are widespread?

Because of the pandemic many people have lost their jobs. The hardest hit are the gangs. It has been much harder to get drugs across the border and with the lockdown it has been much easier for the cops to shut them down as well. Also, with the businesses shut down they can't collect money for protection. Imagine a person with a felony record trying to get a job right now. So these guys are left to shoot it out among themselves. So unless those shootings are directly tied to the "widespread riots" you are claiming are taking place they should be considered collateral damage to the Covid19 pandemic.

Ana the Ist · Sep 22, 2020

Belk said:
It's almost as if a few people saying something dumb in a random setting is not news worthy.

Well I'd normalno agree....but I've seen news article after news article of "Karens" saying some dumb stuff in a random setting get plenty of news coverage.

Perhaps there's some other factor in which story gets coverage.

I'm getting six from the article you linked. It was the number of people saying something dumb. Just because six people in a group are idiots does not mean the whole group are in lock step with them.

Where are you getting that number from? Are you implying that the group standing with the person saying these things doesn't agree?

I'm a straight white man as well. Oddly enough I'm not blamed for everything wrong.

You haven't been paying attention then....would you like examples?

Do YOU believe it makes you complicit? .

I believe anyone making such judgements about others should hold themselves to the same standards.

Also, you realize that we're just on one example of why I find Seattle pretty disgusting....right? There's plenty more...

New city contract with Seattle 'street czar' under scrutiny

Is this where they're allocating those police funds to? Pimps?

DaisyDay · Sep 22, 2020

Ana the Ist said:
Is this where they're allocating those police funds to? Pimps?

Who are you calling a pimp?

Ana the Ist · Sep 22, 2020

DaisyDay said:
Who are you calling a pimp?

The guy Seattle hired to clean up the streets lol.

Seattle Hires Convicted Pimp as ‘Street Czar’ as Policing Consultant

johneb · Sep 22, 2020

KCfromNC said:
And, per the thread title, there are still riots "everywhere". So like I said, I'm not convinced Donald really has the ability to help out here.

200,000+ dead Americans later and counting, same conclusion as above.

It's up to the mayors and governors to deal with riots, the leaders of blue states have not asked for help with radical leftist rioters. When Trump sent federal marshals to Portland OR mayor Ted Wheeler ask them to leave, and then finally governor Brown sent in the OSP.
Trump did not order blue state governors to require nursing homes to take covid 19 positive patients from hospitals, their governor's did. This resulted in the needles deaths of at least 60,000 compromised Americans.
Would you have Tump to be a dictator over the states or abide by the constitution?
Your comments are foolish and untrue you should keep them to yourself.

johneb · Sep 22, 2020

This for further thought, Candace Owens says violence in Los Angeles is 'natural progression' of left's 'increasingly deranged rhetoric'

Belk · Sep 22, 2020

Ana the Ist said:
Well I'd normalno agree....but I've seen news article after news article of "Karens" saying some dumb stuff in a random setting get plenty of news coverage.

Perhaps there's some other factor in which story gets coverage.

Perhaps so. Feel free to link to some editor somewhere listing their criteria. I think you are a intelligent man Ana the Ist but I don't think you have a good grasp on why stories are published. At least not by what you have said so far.

Ana the Ist said:
Where are you getting that number from? Are you implying that the group standing with the person saying these things doesn't agree?

No, I am directly stating it. Have you ever been with a group and had people say something dumb? Did you agree with them simply because you were part of the group?

Ana the Ist said:
You haven't been paying attention then....would you like examples?

I'm always down for examples. It helps to have something concrete that we can examine.

Ana the Ist said:
I believe anyone making such judgements about others should hold themselves to the same standards.

Then you must be very disappointed in humanity. We rarely do this. ^_^

Ana the Ist said:
Also, you realize that we're just on one example of why I find Seattle pretty disgusting....right? There's plenty more...

New city contract with Seattle 'street czar' under scrutiny

Is this where they're allocating those police funds to? Pimps?

Are you claiming that someone who has made mistakes in their past and served their time should no longer be eligible for work in the public sector? That seems rather counter to the whole idea of our justice system does it not? If your reason for finding Seattle "disgusting" is that we are willing to uphold the ideals of rehabilitation then I find your criteria more a reflection of you then of us.

lasthero · Sep 22, 2020

Ana the Ist said:
The guy Seattle hired to clean up the streets lol.

Seattle Hires Convicted Pimp as ‘Street Czar’ as Policing Consultant

This is more than a little misleading.

He hasn't been a pimp for nearly two decades. He was convicted, he did his time, and he was let out early for good behavior. He's currently happily married, and you can find numerous videos of him online with his wife, sharing positive messages. He's become a life coach and an activist, and he's spoken out against human trafficking.

Saying he lead violent protests is wrong - that has never been his message. Quite the opposite.

He is a strong supporter of peaceful protest, and you can see him here denouncing the riots - something that people claim BLM leaders never do, by the way. This article also ignores a lot of the good work he's done in Seattle, and it omits context for a lot of the things he said and meant. It also calls him one of the organizers of CHOP, which is blatantly false - he actually spoke out against it.

He was brought on as a consultant on police reform, something he's successfully done in the past. That's it.

lasthero · Sep 22, 2020

johneb said:
Trump did not order blue state governors to require nursing homes to take covid 19 positive patients from hospitals, their governor's did.

You make it sound like they did this on a whim. It was an emergency measure, because the hospitals were packed.

johneb said:
This resulted in the needles deaths of at least 60,000 compromised Americans.

Really? I'd like to know where you got that number from.

johneb · Sep 22, 2020

lasthero said:
It was an emergency measure, because the hospitals were packed.

lasthero said:
You make it sound like they did this on a whim. It was an emergency measure, because the hospitals were packed.

Hospital ship Comfort departs NYC, having treated fewer than 200 patients Really?

johneb · Sep 22, 2020

lasthero said:
Really? I'd like to know where you got that number from.

It's hard to get a real number yet we will. How many people died of COVID-19 contracted in New York nursing homes? We don’t know.

lasthero · Sep 22, 2020

johneb said:
Hospital ship Comfort departs NYC, having treated fewer than 200 patients Really?

Yes, really. By the time the Comfort came and was taking on patients, the cases were already going down. The measures you’re talking about happened during the earlier days, when New York has its massive surge.

lasthero · Sep 22, 2020

johneb said:
It's hard to get a real number yet we will. How many people died of COVID-19 contracted in New York nursing homes? We don’t know.

This article doesn't seem to address how many of those deaths were because of the measure Cuomo took - community transmission lead to many nursing home deaths around the country.

But where did you get the '60,000' number from? Did you just make it up?

essentialsaltes · Sep 22, 2020

johneb said:
This for further thought, Candace Owens says violence in Los Angeles is 'natural progression' of left's 'increasingly deranged rhetoric'

Thought? No, there's not much there. I'm in LA. I'm in black LA. Her take is ludicrous.

Ana the Ist · Sep 22, 2020

Belk said:
Perhaps so. Feel free to link to some editor somewhere listing their criteria.

That could be tricky....a lot of media likes to pass itself off as "news" after all. I might be able to find some info from former journalists and reporters after leaving a media outlet. Would you find those credible?

I think you are a intelligent man Ana the Ist but I don't think you have a good grasp on why stories are published. At least not by what you have said so far.

Well unfortunately, news has changed a lot in attempt to compete with the online market. Each source basically has a target audience they cater to.

No, I am directly stating it. Have you ever been with a group and had people say something dumb? Did you agree with them simply because you were part of the group?

If these were comments about the stock market or the weather....I might agree with your reasoning here. The issues this group is interested in protesting are racial though....and I'm sure you would expect that people would know the messages of their racial protest group. I can't imagine if this was a protest organized by Stormfront for example, you'd accept the excuse that only one guy with a bullhorn was saying terrible things and everyone else in the group didn't agree with him.

That would be silly.

I'm always down for examples. It helps to have something concrete that we can examine.

Here's a few...

Rich white men rule America. How much longer will we tolerate that for? | Nathan Robinson

OPINION: What Is Wrong with America Is Us White People | JFP Mobile | Jackson, Mississippi

Column: White America, if you want to know who’s responsible for racism, look in the mirror

'There Is No Neutral': 'Nice White People' Can Still Be Complicit In A Racist Society

And my favorite given the discussion we're having....

Seattle's mayor says white men are responsible for 'much of the violence and destruction' across the US following George Floyd's death

Then you must be very disappointed in humanity. We rarely do this.

I've been called misanthropic.

Are you claiming that someone who has made mistakes in their past and served their time should no longer be eligible for work in the public sector? That seems rather counter to the whole idea of our justice system does it not? If your reason for finding Seattle "disgusting" is that we are willing to uphold the ideals of rehabilitation then I find your criteria more a reflection of you then of us.

If Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby get out of prison....I don't think they should operate a rape crisis hotline.

In a similar way, I don't think a former pimp is the guy to turn to when it comes to solving street level issues. If he wanted to deliver mail for example, I don't see any problem with that.

johneb · Sep 23, 2020

lasthero said:
But where did you get the '60,000' number from? Did you just make it up?

States that ordered nursing homes and ACFs to accept Covid patients from hospitals, NY,PA, NJ, CA, MI. You do the math and see what you come up with. Track COVID-19 Nursing Home Cases, Deaths in Your State
I could be off, the numbers will take time to sort out.

lasthero · Sep 23, 2020

johneb said:
States that ordered nursing homes and ACFs to accept Covid patients from hospitals, NY,PA, NJ, CA, MI. You do the math and see what you come up with.

I honestly can’t see how you came to that number off this. Maybe it’s just not showing up on my phone. Walk me through it?

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