Veils and Long Hair

Daniel9v9

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I was just reading this passage in my daily readings today! How providential.

I have a bit of a different take....

One of my professors at Concordia indicated that this was in fact not a customary mandate from St. Paul; to the contrary, the common custom in Judaism was for the *men* to cover their heads while praying, as occurs in Judaism today as well. And yet, he says men should not cover their heads. Further, he ascribes the impetus for women wearing head coverings to offending the Holy Angels. What care have they for local custom?

Someone said above that the Church has no universal rule in this regard, but historically women covered their heads in the Divine Service. In living memory this was the case even in our Churches. The fact that this has ceased is the result of modernity. We should be upfront about this fact even when discussing whether or not it is a universal requirement-it WAS, essentially, a universal custom.

Someone above said that St. Paul said hair will "do the trick." Not so. He said if women don't cover their heads, they might as well have shorn heads, which is a disgrace. Long hair is a symbol of submission to God's created order in the world. A head covering is a further symbol of submission in the Church, mysteriously so as not to offend the Angels, who were our tutors in times past concerning God's created order.

Here's a closing anecdote: In one of the conservative Lutheran Facebook discussion groups, the fact that "we don't require head coverings, either" was used to bolster the argument that God's appointed order for the Holy Ministry was also an antiquated "custom." Women should not have to be "silent in the Churches" either, they say, but should be allowed to preach, as these were simply "local customs." But to the contrary, there were plenty of temple priestesses in antiquity, just as there were men praying with heads covered. The context of the passages do not seem to imply custom at all.

I would welcome critiques of these points!

That's interesting - thank you. If this is a position that strictly advocates for head covering, that's a position that is contrary to what the Lutheran Study Bible and the Kretzmann Bible says, if I remember correctly. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I can appreciate and agree with the context, but I still believe in a distinction between the underlying universal truth that Paul is making and a local application of that truth. I can perhaps concede that this could be an ideal reflection of the underlying point, which is why Paul does argue for it - so it's not for purely cultural reasons - but I don't think Paul is saying it's absolute in any way. I think the heart of Paul's concern is to keep people from misusing the freedom they have in Christ. I don't think he's laying down a particular practice, although it was already common both in Judaism and the Roman world - for different purposes.

I would have to disagree with the statement you found on Facebook that this is somehow comparable to or to be used as an argument for women's ordination, for there Paul does not use the expression "custom/practice" but writes "As in all the churches of the saints ...", implying something universal, and moreover from the clear instructions in 1 Timothy.

Paul undoubtedly has a very deep understanding regarding the created order, and he appeals to it in a few places - it's interesting how they are often prone to confusion in our day.
 
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FaithT

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That's interesting - thank you. If this is a position that strictly advocates for head covering, that's a position that is contrary to what the Lutheran Study Bible and the Kretzmann Bible says, if I remember correctly. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I can appreciate and agree with the context, but I still believe in a distinction between the underlying universal truth that Paul is making and a local application of that truth. I can perhaps concede that this could be an ideal reflection of the underlying point, which is why Paul does argue for it - so it's not for purely cultural reasons - but I don't think Paul is saying it's absolute in any way. I think the heart of Paul's concern is to keep people from misusing the freedom they have in Christ. I don't think he's laying down a particular practice, although it was already common both in Judaism and the Roman world - for different purposes.

I would have to disagree with the statement you found on Facebook that this is somehow comparable to or to be used as an argument for women's ordination, for there Paul does not use the expression "custom/practice" but writes "As in all the churches of the saints ...", implying something universal, and moreover from the clear instructions in 1 Timothy.

Paul undoubtedly has a very deep understanding regarding the created order, and he appeals to it in a few places - it's interesting how they are often prone to confusion in our day.
I’m just wondering because I’m still kind of new to the LCMS and know there are people in other denominations who argue the earth is flat and no matter how many scientists prove otherwise, they still argue. I don’t want to lose my newfound faith over a discrepancy between science and religion.
 
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FaithT

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I’m just wondering because I’m still kind of new to the LCMS and know there are people in other denominations who argue the earth is flat and no matter how many scientists prove otherwise, they still argue. I don’t want to lose my newfound faith over a discrepancy between science and religion.
Sorry, I messed up the threads.
That was to be answered in the Venus thread.
 
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ViaCrucis

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While there is some debate over exactly what St. Paul means here, I think one of the more fascinating things he says in this passage is found in verse 16:

"If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God."

What does the Apostle mean?

I take it to mean that the matter of head coverings and hair length aren't a matter of divine command, and that such a thing isn't apostolic nor widespread ecclesiastical practice. So if one is contentious, i.e. does not agree with the matter of head coverings and the like, that's fine, because that isn't mandated Christian practice.

So what Paul is doing is providing a local, culturally relevant custom that the predominantly Greek Corinthians can relate to; not establishing universal command and practice.

Hair length and head coverings are in and of themselves adiaphora, matters of indifference.

You should feel free to wear your hair however you like, or to cover your head or not.

We should remember that Paul himself was a Jew, and Jewish custom and practice is actually that men do cover their heads in prayer. That's why, even today, Jewish men wear a kippah or yarmulke, a head covering during prayer and while in the synagogue. So in Jewish practice men covered their heads, not women; but in Greek cultural practice women, not men, covered their heads--so Paul is speaking of cultural, Greek custom when he talks about these things.

Further, if the length of our hair were a matter of Divine command, how should we know what length our hair should be when we aren't told? What is "short" and what is "long" are subjective. And throughout the history of Christianity hair length, hair style, etc has varied wildly depending on time and culture.

So, again, these things are adiaphora.

What matters isn't what you wear or don't wear on your head, or how long or short your hair is. What matters is good order in worship. That is, fundamentally, the point being made, as Paul is talking about gathered Christian worship. An area of Corinthian Christian life that has been deeply fragmented by the ridiculous faction-making they've engaged in. Which is going to also be the context of discussing the charismata of 1 Corinthians 12, the central importance of love in 1 Corinthians 13, and general good order in 1 Corinthians 14.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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kdm1984

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I've tried to exegete this passage a number of times in recent years, and each time I examine it, I take away that Paul was equating long hair as being a covering in and of itself (1 Corinthians 11:15), so a veil isn't necessary so long as the hair is long. I had my hair very short a few times when I was younger, but after looking at this passage more carefully, I've never had it short again. Even if it's not taken as a mandate (and Lutherans don't take it that way), at the very least Paul is saying it's better for a woman's hair to be long in verse 15.
 
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FaithT

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I've tried to exegete this passage a number of times in recent years, and each time I examine it, I take away that Paul was equating long hair as being a covering in and of itself (1 Corinthians 11:15), so a veil isn't necessary so long as the hair is long. I had my hair very short a few times when I was younger, but after looking at this passage more carefully, I've never had it short again. Even if it's not taken as a mandate (and Lutherans don't take it that way), at the very least Paul is saying it's better for a woman's hair to be long in verse 15.
I think Paul is saying it’s better for women to wear their hair long, too. Mine is shoulder length, but I’m glad my church doesn’t teach us to wear our hair long.
 
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