Can you help me with how this is supposed to work...

Chris35 · Sep 20, 2020

You have come to the betrayal barrier, where you feel that God has betrayed you.

You didnt want this life, nor the path that God has put you on. You didnt want to be put here in a world of suffering, pain, blindness, sin ect.

Your going to have to forgive God, because you have much anger and bitterness towards him, because of these things. Not that God needs forgivness, forgivness will help you let it out of your heart.

Annner · Sep 20, 2020

Questioning Brother said:
God through action (being the direct cause) or inaction (not intervening to prevent) destroys almost everything I care about having.
God does nothing ( again action/inaction) to help me while I beg for help.
God continues to pile spiritual things on me despite the fact that I don’t care.
And somehow this is supposed to make me love and trust him.

can anyone explain how this is supposed to work?

I went through horrendous trials for 20+ years wondering what was going on with no comprehension of what was happening. Questions arose why he wasnt answering, why he was letting me go through such pain, yet I knew what the Word said about who He was. I wasnt experiencing knowing his faithfulness, seeing his deliverance, and his love for me.

It reminded me of the parable of the seed, the part where trial and persecution came, and since it didnt have root, no fruit came. I kept on even though I didnt understand. It wasnt until I came to the end of my rope and I stopped trying to manipulate the situations of my life, is when I began to see him move in power. It was the most valuable lesson of my walk. He began to teach me and reveal to me He IS all those things you are longing to experience....his care, his love, his deliverance, answers to prayer, his faithfulness.
I was just like you, i didnt understand,,,,until he revealed it to me. Now I understand I can trust him, that he is completely faithful, a mighty deliverer and how much he does care.

He IS all of those things no matter what you are experiencing. He is not a liar. He is mighty and powerful and loving, caring and kind. He will reveal his character and you will once and for all understand. And when you get it, you will KNOW he is who he says he is.

The BEST place to be with God, is when ur back is up against the wall, you have NO strength left, and help is not to be found within 10000 miles. Because THATS when he moves, when we take our hand of flesh completely off the situation once and for all. When the flesh is out of the way striving, trying to manipulate and make things work out,,,,,its as if he stands back saying, When are you going to take your hand OFF of it? I see his power when i come to my complete end.
Paul the apostle said when i am weak, then i am strong, that the POWER OF CHRIST MAY REST ON ME.

P.S. Word of warning......Being angry at Him and saying he is not who he says he is, only brings swift judgment. One time i was so angry and blurted out something. The moment i said it, my car engine started on fire. Trust me,,,i have been there. His anger was kindled and he showed me the things he has had his hand on in my life, that i took for granted, can be pulled right out from under me. I knew it was the Lord and I repented immediately. The question is will we still serve him when our life doesnt go the way we want it to?
He WILL show you, and its a gigantic lesson you will NEVER ever ever forget.

Mark Quayle · Sep 21, 2020

Questioning Brother said:
God through action (being the direct cause) or inaction (not intervening to prevent) destroys almost everything I care about having.
God does nothing ( again action/inaction) to help me while I beg for help.
God continues to pile spiritual things on me despite the fact that I don’t care.
And somehow this is supposed to make me love and trust him.

can anyone explain how this is supposed to work?

This life is not for this life. It is for God. Watch what he does, and praise him for it. Thank him he uses you. Maybe he is working on you to learn about him --for instance, to learn that he does whatever he chooses, for his own purposes, and owes you nothing.

Prayer isn't just asking for help, btw. This is not about you.

miamited · Sep 21, 2020

Questioning Brother said:
God through action (being the direct cause) or inaction (not intervening to prevent) destroys almost everything I care about having.
God does nothing ( again action/inaction) to help me while I beg for help.
God continues to pile spiritual things on me despite the fact that I don’t care.
And somehow this is supposed to make me love and trust him.

can anyone explain how this is supposed to work?

1. God through action (being the direct cause) or inaction (not intervening to prevent) destroys almost everything I care about having.

I don't know where you got this bit of theological understanding, but it doesn't come from God's word. God has nowhere in His word given evidence that He is either the direct cause of every human action, nor that He considers it His responsibility to intervene or prevent any consequence of human action.

2. God does nothing ( again action/inaction) to help me while I beg for help.

I'm going to jump ahead to point 3 here real quick: God continues to pile spiritual things on me despite the fact that I don’t care. Aaaaand so you think that God should intervene on your behalf despite your own testimony that you don't care about the spiritual things of God? I'm pretty sure you won't find that promise in the Scriptures, either. In fact, God's word says that He watches over the way of the righteous and that the unrighteous one's ways lead to death.

4. And somehow this is supposed to make me love and trust him.

I believe that God expects us to love and trust Him, not because He is the magic genie that pulls us out of all the consequences of our own and other's actions, but because He is the Creator of all the physical things of the realm in which we live, and has provided for us, as a sign of His love, the way of eternal life. God's word, in the most simple terms, describes how He created everything; how He loves the special creature He calls man and desires a relationship with him; and how He has given the life of His only Son as a sign of that love that He has for us to re-establish the relationship that we could not have done on our own.

So honestly, if you're looking for God to be some genie to fix all your problems, while you carry on and claim that you really don't care about all of the spiritual truths that God explains to us, I imagine you're going to be waiting until hell freezes over. God doesn't promise to fix all our troubles and woes, but He does promise to be there with us as we go through them. But, and let me be very clear about this, that promise is only for those who love Him.

There are ample evidences found in the Scriptures that God's people do suffer. In fact, the very consequence of God's people for not obeying His laws and commandments was a fairly long list of woes and disease and sickness that would come upon them. So, if you want the promise that God gives to His people, then you have to be one of His people.

God bless,
Ted

Questioning Brother · Sep 21, 2020

miamited said:
1. God through action (being the direct cause) or inaction (not intervening to prevent) destroys almost everything I care about having.

I don't know where you got this bit of theological understanding, but it doesn't come from God's word. God has nowhere in His word given evidence that He is either the direct cause of every human action, nor that He considers it His responsibility to intervene or prevent any consequence of human action.

2. God does nothing ( again action/inaction) to help me while I beg for help.

I'm going to jump ahead to point 3 here real quick: God continues to pile spiritual things on me despite the fact that I don’t care. Aaaaand so you think that God should intervene on your behalf despite your own testimony that you don't care about the spiritual things of God? I'm pretty sure you won't find that promise in the Scriptures, either. In fact, God's word says that He watches over the way of the righteous and that the unrighteous one's ways lead to death.

4. And somehow this is supposed to make me love and trust him.

I believe that God expects us to love and trust Him, not because He is the magic genie that pulls us out of all the consequences of our own and other's actions, but because He is the Creator of all the physical things of the realm in which we live, and has provided for us, as a sign of His love, the way of eternal life. God's word, in the most simple terms, describes how He created everything; how He loves the special creature He calls man and desires a relationship with him; and how He has given the life of His only Son as a sign of that love that He has for us to re-establish the relationship that we could not have done on our own.

So honestly, if you're looking for God to be some genie to fix all your problems, while you carry on and claim that you really don't care about all of the spiritual truths that God explains to us, I imagine you're going to be waiting until hell freezes over. God doesn't promise to fix all our troubles and woes, but He does promise to be there with us as we go through them. But, and let me be very clear about this, that promise is only for those who love Him.

There are ample evidences found in the Scriptures that God's people do suffer. In fact, the very consequence of God's people for not obeying His laws and commandments was a fairly long list of woes and disease and sickness that would come upon them. So, if you want the promise that God gives to His people, then you have to be one of His people.

God bless,
Ted

1). I am at a loss as to how this is an arguable statement. There are definitely verses about God removing things from our lives/causing situations Himself for various reasons. And if He chooses not to intervene (again biblically supported), by definition he is allowing it to happen again for various reasons. I would also point out that it doesn’t matter which side is doing the action, the outcome (the issue is destroyed/removed) is the same.
2) Ok could be a fair point, but for me the amount of spiritual things I needed to be filled to overflowing is extremely small. With the issues in my life (the more material natured ones) I can’t bring myself to care about more of it while the pain is ongoing.
4) I used to trust Him a LOT more. The trials have burned that to the ground. I am also not the kind to trust again after I have been burned once. O’Malley go of the anger and forgive, but forgiven and trusted are 2 very different things. Also, if He is with me and doesn’t do anything about the problem, I might as well be alone. His actions (and inaction) speak far louder than His empty words of comfort.

miamited · Sep 21, 2020

Hi QB,

I'm only going to respond to point 1:

Questioning Brother said:
I am at a loss as to how this is an arguable statement. There are definitely verses about God removing things from our lives/causing situations Himself for various reasons. And if He chooses not to intervene (again biblically supported), by definition he is allowing it to happen again for various reasons. I would also point out that it doesn’t matter which side is doing the action, the outcome (the issue is destroyed/removed) is the same.

I don't think you know God as well as you think to yourself that you do. Yes, there are ample evidences of God making special actions to protect one of His children from harm. Shutting the mouths of the lions and bringing Hananiah, Azaria and Mishael through the fiery furnace. But let's also weigh the measure of their faith against yours. Neither Daniel, nor the three friends ever found themselves, according to all the evidences of the Scriptures, in your place of doubting God. They were so trusting of God that they stood in the face of the King and told him flat out that even if God didn't save them from the fate of death, they weren't renouncing God, nor bowing to him. They had full and bedrock faith in God no matter any earthly danger that they might face. You? Doesn't seem so much. You've faced some traumatic experiences and pretty much just gone the way that Jesus described some of those seeds sown in the farmer's field. Those seed initially took root, but as soon as the trials and troubles of the world set upon them, they withered and died.

Bad things happen in this lost and fallen world to pretty much everyone. Look at Paul's life. There isn't anyone in the new covenant writings featured more than Paul. Paul was about as faithful as any human being can be. Yet Paul was flogged, beaten, shipwrecked, and imprisoned, but you don't read of Paul doubting the goodness and love of God. He understood fully that while we live in this world, we will suffer. He understood that God doesn't promise any of us some rose garden life, but that He would be with us as we go through those times.

Friend, God is God! He's asking you to remain faithful even in the jaws of death. He's asking you to understand that no matter how bad things might get in this life, there is a better life coming...if you are faithful and believe. He has promised eternal life with Him for those who trust and believe his Son and He gave clear evidence that He can do what He has promised to do by raising the first born from the dead to resurrected life...Jesus!! Now, might He ever make some special exception for one of His children in suffering? Maybe, but it isn't any promise. Nor, by the evidences of the lives of the first apostles, men whose faith was a lot stronger than yours or mine, do we see that He always pulled them from danger. Most of the apostles were martyred for their faith. I think that should be a clear indication that God isn't bound and beholden to save any of us from pain and suffering in this life.

He is God! He created all the physical 'things' of this realm of His design and creating. He ended the work of His creating by creating mankind and for them and them alone, He has loved and nurtured and worked to bring them from a life of sin, to an eternal life of mercy and grace. That's who God is and that's why we should love Him. That's it. We don't love Him because He jumps out of a genie lamp to answer our every whim and need. We love Him because He first loved us, and demonstrated that love by giving the life of His one and only Son, that we may have our relationship restored. But not a one of us is beholden to believe or accept that. We live by simple faith that the words that God has delivered to us through His people, Israel, are true. That a plan has been laid out for us and for any who would believe and trust in that plan, and establish our lives to live for His glory, will be saved on the day of God's judgment of all mankind. Everyone else, well, they just receive what they deserve for not trusting and believing God.

God bless,
Ted

miamited · Sep 21, 2020

BTW QB, I am going to give a short response to point 2:

Questioning Brother said:
Ok could be a fair point, but for me the amount of spiritual things I needed to be filled to overflowing is extremely small. With the issues in my life (the more material natured ones) I can’t bring myself to care about more of it while the pain is ongoing.

Have you ever questioned whether your idea that this list you mention is small, is just how you see it, or how God sees it? Further, would a 'small list' really make a difference to God concerning your faithfulness? From your reply about having problems with forgiveness and trusting, maybe, in God's sight, your list is a lot larger than you have considered.

God bless,
Ted

Chris35 · Sep 21, 2020

But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.

The body is still subject to death because of sin. I cant say if its her time to go or not, perhaps it is Gods will to take her, perhaps it is not. I'd suggest finding a church with a healer and asking then to come visit her, as God gives us different gifts and roles.

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

In the end though, Gods will be done and not our own.

On a side not, you talk about pain and suffering alot, however all these things come from the flesh and not the spirit.

21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

This verse gives us insight into the spirit, it is better to die, and be with christ. If indeed it is her time to go then she will be with Jesus.

The flesh is selfish and only see's what it wants, the loss and suffering that it will bring you rather then what is best for her.

If a part of you doesnt rejoice in the fact that she is going to a much better place, that she will suffer no longer, well these are things that are spiritual that you keep saying you dont want.

If you want to be free from this pain, its all in the flesh, along with the hatred and the anger. Your going to need to move into the spiritual side of things.

22He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

OzSpen · Sep 21, 2020

Questioning Brother said:
No, God doesn’t care.

QB,

How do you measure the quantity or quality of 'God doesn't care'?

Have you had some great disappointment in your life and you concluded God wasn't there for you, so 'God doesn't care'?

I note from your avatar you are a Baptist. There are several brands of Baptists in the USA. Are you at liberty to share which group you belong to? Do you attend church often?

Have you talked this over with your pastor?

We have to deal with God's revelation. He does care for us.

Isaiah 41:10 (ERV): 'Don’t worry—I am with you. Don’t be afraid—I am your God. I will make you strong and help you. I will support you with my right hand that brings victory'.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4 (ERV): 'Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Father who is full of mercy, the God of all comfort. 4 He comforts us every time we have trouble so that when others have trouble, we can comfort them with the same comfort God gives us'.

1 Peter 5.6-7 (ERV): 'So be humble under God’s powerful hand. Then he will lift you up when the right time comes. 7 Give all your worries to him, because he cares for you'.

Personally, I have been through 3 very dark years. I'm not going to share the details. However, in the midst of the anguish I've been able to find comfort from the God who cares. I've also been supported by a couple caring Christian families. When the going gets too tough for me, I call them.

How do you deal with God's revelation for you and me that he does care for us?

Oz

Questioning Brother · Sep 21, 2020

Chris35 said:
But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.

The body is still subject to death because of sin. I cant say if its her time to go or not, perhaps it is Gods will to take her, perhaps it is not. I'd suggest finding a church with a healer and asking then to come visit her, as God gives us different gifts and roles.

Did that.

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

In the end though, Gods will be done and not our own.

On a side not, you talk about pain and suffering alot, however all these things come from the flesh and not the spirit.

21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

This verse gives us insight into the spirit, it is better to die, and be with christ. If indeed it is her time to go then she will be with Jesus.

The flesh is selfish and only see's what it wants, the loss and suffering that it will bring you rather then what is best for her.

Best for all of us would have been not going through this.

If a part of you doesnt rejoice in the fact that she is going to a much better place, that she will suffer no longer, well these are things that are spiritual that you keep saying you dont want.

A small part.

Questioning Brother · Sep 21, 2020

OzSpen said:
QB,

How do you measure the quantity or quality of 'God doesn't care'?

Have you had some great disappointment in your life and you concluded God wasn't there for you, so 'God doesn't care'?

I note from your avatar you are a Baptist. There are several brands of Baptists in the USA. Are you at liberty to share which group you belong to? Do you attend church often?

Have you talked this over with your pastor?

We have to deal with God's revelation. He does care for us.

Isaiah 41:10 (ERV): 'Don’t worry—I am with you. Don’t be afraid—I am your God. I will make you strong and help you. I will support you with my right hand that brings victory'.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4 (ERV): 'Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Father who is full of mercy, the God of all comfort. 4 He comforts us every time we have trouble so that when others have trouble, we can comfort them with the same comfort God gives us'.

1 Peter 5.6-7 (ERV): 'So be humble under God’s powerful hand. Then he will lift you up when the right time comes. 7 Give all your worries to him, because he cares for you'.

Personally, I have been through 3 very dark years. I'm not going to share the details. However, in the midst of the anguish I've been able to find comfort from the God who cares. I've also been supported by a couple caring Christian families. When the going gets too tough for me, I call them.

How do you deal with God's revelation for you and me that he does care for us?

Oz

Baptist tag is out of date. It won’t let me change it.

The problem is, sure, He is with me, but He doesn’t help in the slightest. His comfort is ringing extremely empty. I need him to act, not talk. I actually have always hated being comforted. It does nothing for me.

I haven’t been to any church in a while. I don’t have the energy to keep up the facade.

miamited · Sep 21, 2020

Hi QB,

Questioning Brother said:
I haven’t been to any church in a while. I don’t have the energy to keep up the facade.

So then you are the seed sown along the path in the rocky soil. You have allowed the earthly trials and troubles of this life to steal your faith. Hopefully someday you'll be able to understand the truth of who God is. I contend still, that your theology is bad. That bad theology, that tries to tell you that this God you claim to trust should step right down from His throne in heaven and make all your troubles go away, has, as bad theology always will, led you to see God as unfaithful or a liar.

God loves you. The fact that you're suffering earthly trials due to sin, doesn't change the fact that God still loves you. However, it has apparently made all the difference in your loving Him.

God bless,
Ted

Annner · Sep 22, 2020

Questioning Brother said:
Baptist tag is out of date. It won’t let me change it.

The problem is, sure, He is with me, but He doesn’t help in the slightest. His comfort is ringing extremely empty. I need him to act, not talk. I actually have always hated being comforted. It does nothing for me.

I haven’t been to any church in a while. I don’t have the energy to keep up the facade.

QB,

Well something isnt right for sure. You said you think he destroys everything you care about. That certainly does not sound like God at all. Jesus came to give us life. It doesnt mean we wont go thru trials. Have you EVER had the Lord do something for you, where you KNEW it was him? Jesus said, the one who loves me will keep my word, and i will manifest myself to him. When i went through years of awful trial, i realized it was ME who was believing something wrong. He IS all those wonderful things he says he is. Others ARE experiencing him showing them he cares, so i imagine its something on your end, not His. Find out what it is,,,,its something.

Can you elaborate on what you believe on how a person becomes saved? If you have that right and you are under awful trial, if you curse him, and go into an “i dont care” mode, and the devil is attacking you which is exactly what it sounds like, you wont get anywhere. Devil is the one who wants you to blame God and turn on him. Thats a classic sign its the enemy. He is called the “accuser.” He accuses and blames God because he hates Him. Satan is also referred to as a destroyer.

Just saying, something sounds very wrong on your end. I would get that resolved because to have that thought about God in your heart is so unhealthy, and so not true. In the meantime, your enemy is pouncing all over you.

God is salvation and youre missing something so so darn big, its tearing you up. I wouldnt blame God, because its not him constantly trying to hurt you. He is a Savior and DOES answer. You need to get this resolved in ur heart big time.
When you understand how big, mighty, great, caring, and wonderful He really is, you will feel so awful. And if your anger and resentment remains in defiance blaming him, you wont be able to get past the upset. Its a huge revelation to get, to KNOW his character for yourself. Once you get it and begin to see him reveal himself to you, you will be in absolute AWE over him.

Questioning Brother · Sep 22, 2020

miamited said:
Hi QB,
So then you are the seed sown along the path in the rocky soil. You have allowed the earthly trials and troubles of this life to steal your faith. Hopefully someday you'll be able to understand the truth of who God is. I contend still, that your theology is bad. That bad theology, that tries to tell you that this God you claim to trust should step right down from His throne in heaven and make all your troubles go away, has, as bad theology always will, led you to see God as unfaithful or a liar.

God loves you. The fact that you're suffering earthly trials due to sin, doesn't change the fact that God still loves you. However, it has apparently made all the difference in your loving Him.

God bless,
Ted

And your theology has God as someone who will sit back and watch you struggle and doesn’t care enough to lift a finger to help. When you are being overwhelmed and cry out to Him, he tells you to take care of it yourself. One wonders why the God you describe would bother to send Christ. He would expect you to overcome sin by yourself.

miamited · Sep 22, 2020

Questioning Brother said:
And your theology has God as someone who will sit back and watch you struggle and doesn’t care enough to lift a finger to help. When you are being overwhelmed and cry out to Him, he tells you to take care of it yourself. One wonders why the God you describe would bother to send Christ. He would expect you to overcome sin by yourself.

Hi QB,

Well, I believe that if you are familiar with the Scriptures, that my theology is based on the truth of His words. As I claimed in an earlier post, there isn't any assurance given to us in the Scriptures that God is promise bound to do what you are looking for Him to do. There is ample evidence to the contrary that God isn't about micro-managing the lives of people who either are or aren't His children.

We don't have to wonder why the God that I describe bothered to send the Christ. The Scriptures tell us why He did. For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son into the world. That whosoever believes in him shall have eternal life. You see God understands, after all He did create it all, that this life is temporal. We are here today and gone tomorrow. But there is an eternal life to come and that's the one that God is most interested in. That everyone come to the knowledge of salvation through His Son, Jesus, and be saved. That the eternal life will not have all the suffering and pain that this life has because all of those living in the eternal life will have made the free will choice to trust and believe God.

Anyway, I would just encourage you to seek after Job's example for your life. I doubt that you've suffered as much loss as he did. Yet Job, in all of that loss and suffering, never turned his back on God. Job understood who God is. That He is not some great being who sits around all day micro-managing each of our individual lives. He is the Creator and Sustainer of life. Yes, He does allow us to live by the choices that we make and often times those choices bring pain to ourselves and others. Yes, there is sickness and disease in this lost and fallen world and God allows those things to work out their natural progress in this life that we live.

However, He sent His one and only Son that none of us have to endure such an existence for eternity. Only for the temporal time that we have in this life before the day of God's judgment. That's the truth of God, I believe as the Scriptures portray it. You then have a choice to make. You can come to God on His terms seeking what He promises for those that do...or, you can go your own way. Shaking your fist at God and declaring Him to be a wicked and loveless God. That He hasn't operated the world in the way that you think He should. It's your freewill choice to make.

Now, supposedly at some point in your past you did make the choice to believe God. However, because of the suffering you now experience in the trials and troubles that this life pretty much visits upon everyone in some degree or another, you have decided that God isn't good enough for you and are actively working to throw away your faith rather than building it up on the foundation of God's word and His Son. That's your freewill choice to make! But do keep in mind that Jesus has already explained to you the kind of person that you are and warned you of making that choice.

"Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

Did you experience great joy when you first made the choice to give your life for the promises of God through His Son, Jesus? But now you have experienced trials and troubles that you feel are just to hard for you to bear...and keep your faith in that same God that you were overjoyed in praise before? Those are the people that Jesus is describing in this parable concerning the farmer and his spreading of the seed. As he explained to his disciples, the seed is the gospel. The good news of God and His provision for us despite our sin. The news that you were at one time thoroughly overjoyed to experience and share in. But now things have changed for you. Your life has not been the rose garden life that you expected God to give you in this temporal life. So, what do you do? You turn away. You throw up your hands and decry that God has not blessed you in some way that you feel you have some righteous right to, by way of your profession of faith in Him.

Friend, I hope that you see yourself in this parable of Jesus. That your answer to your pain and suffering doesn't have to be to throw out your faith. Your answer could be to build an even greater dependence and trust and love for that God that you, earlier in your life said that you did love and trust. It's your freewill choice to make. But don't think for a moment that God doesn't know your heart. He sent His one and only Son to tell you about that, too.

God bless,
Ted

Questioning Brother · Sep 22, 2020

miamited said:
Hi QB,

Well, I believe that if you are familiar with the Scriptures, that my theology is based on the truth of His words. As I claimed in an earlier post, there isn't any assurance given to us in the Scriptures that God is promise bound to do what you are looking for Him to do. There is ample evidence to the contrary that God isn't about micro-managing the lives of people who either are or aren't His children.

Not talking about micromanaging. I am talking about helping someone you love who is suffering. You talk about depending on Him, yet basically say He won’t do anything to help you. That leaves you to help you. Besides, he numbers the hair on your head, and you don’t believe he is intimately involved in EVERY detail of you life?

We don't have to wonder why the God that I describe bothered to send the Christ. The Scriptures tell us why He did. For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son into the world. That whosoever believes in him shall have eternal life. You see God understands, after all He did create it all, that this life is temporal. We are here today and gone tomorrow. But there is an eternal life to come and that's the one that God is most interested in. That everyone come to the knowledge of salvation through His Son, Jesus, and be saved. That the eternal life will not have all the suffering and pain that this life has because all of those living in the eternal life will have made the free will choice to trust and believe God.

I also would point out that Jesus never turned away someone seeking his help regardless of reason. He never told anyone, “No. I can help you, but this suffering is for your eternal good.” He laid hands, cast out demons, he even changed water to wine so his hosts wouldn’t be embarrassed for running out! The idea that God/Jesus/holy Spirit (the trinity) wouldn’t help someone crying out is laughable. Yet that is the kind of God you describe.

Anyway, I would just encourage you to seek after Job's example for your life. I doubt that you've suffered as much loss as he did. Yet Job, in all of that loss and suffering, never turned his back on God. Job understood who God is. That He is not some great being who sits around all day micro-managing each of our individual lives. He is the Creator and Sustainer of life. Yes, He does allow us to live by the choices that we make and often times those choices bring pain to ourselves and others. Yes, there is sickness and disease in this lost and fallen world and God allows those things to work out their natural progress in this life that we live.

A) none of that applies to Job. Instead it applies to Job’s friends.
B) Job would probably have reacted MUCH differently if he had known the real reason (a petty bet) that he suffered.
C) the death of the first set of kids would have done me in. That is also the one thing not restored at the end. He had more kids, but they would not have replaced the first batch.
D) His wife suffered just as badly as he did with even less justification.

However, He sent His one and only Son that none of us have to endure such an existence for eternity. Only for the temporal time that we have in this life before the day of God's judgment. That's the truth of God, I believe as the Scriptures portray it. You then have a choice to make. You can come to God on His terms seeking what He promises for those that do...or, you can go your own way. Shaking your fist at God and declaring Him to be a wicked and loveless God. That He hasn't operated the world in the way that you think He should. It's your freewill choice to make.

Now, supposedly at some point in your past you did make the choice to believe God. However, because of the suffering you now experience in the trials and troubles that this life pretty much visits upon everyone in some degree or another, you have decided that God isn't good enough for you and are actively working to throw away your faith rather than building it up on the foundation of God's word and His Son. That's your freewill choice to make! But do keep in mind that Jesus has already explained to you the kind of person that you are and warned you of making that choice.

"Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."

Did you experience great joy when you first made the choice to give your life for the promises of God through His Son, Jesus? But now you have experienced trials and troubles that you feel are just to hard for you to bear...and keep your faith in that same God that you were overjoyed in praise before? Those are the people that Jesus is describing in this parable concerning the farmer and his spreading of the seed. As he explained to his disciples, the seed is the gospel. The good news of God and His provision for us despite our sin. The news that you were at one time thoroughly overjoyed to experience and share in. But now things have changed for you. Your life has not been the rose garden life that you expected God to give you in this temporal life. So, what do you do? You turn away. You throw up your hands and decry that God has not blessed you in some way that you feel you have some righteous right to, by way of your profession of faith in Him.

Friend, I hope that you see yourself in this parable of Jesus. That your answer to your pain and suffering doesn't have to be to throw out your faith. Your answer could be to build an even greater dependence and trust and love for that God that you, earlier in your life said that you did love and trust. It's your freewill choice to make. But don't think for a moment that God doesn't know your heart. He sent His one and only Son to tell you about that, too.

God bless,
Ted

I do see that, but I was figuring that I leaned more towards the “weeds” one. And that is what I need, a little weeding to allow me a chance to grow. A completely pain free life is going too far (used as a rhetorical exaggeration), but help with the matters that are destroying my faith (the biggest being the slow disintegration of my wife’s mind, multiple strokes) would go a long way. Besides, why bother crying out to Him if He is going to ignore you? If it makes no difference, why waste the energy?

GirdYourLoins · Sep 22, 2020

miamited said:
Anyway, I would just encourage you to seek after Job's example for your life. I doubt that you've suffered as much loss as he did. Yet Job, in all of that loss and suffering, never turned his back on God. Job understood who God is. That He is not some great being who sits around all day micro-managing each of our individual lives. He is the Creator and Sustainer of life. Yes, He does allow us to live by the choices that we make and often times those choices bring pain to ourselves and others. Yes, there is sickness and disease in this lost and fallen world and God allows those things to work out their natural progress in this life that we live.

Job is a poor example. Job lived his life blessed and protectd by God. He was blessed with riches, success, a loving family, influence, etc. He lost it for a little while and then was blessed even more by God.
What QB appears to have had and I have had is a prolonged period where God does not protect, does not bless and allows constant difficulties. In fact my experience of God over the last 15 years is more like I pray asking for help and say I cant take any more to which Gods reply is if you think you cant take any more I'll show you how much more you can take.

miamited · Sep 22, 2020

Hi QB,

Thanks for your response. By the numbers then:

Questioning Brother said:
Not talking about micromanaging. I am talking about helping someone you love who is suffering. You talk about depending on Him, yet basically say He won’t do anything to help you. That leaves you to help you. Besides, he numbers the hair on your head, and you don’t believe he is intimately involved in EVERY detail of you life?

Well, you can use whatever term suits you best, but you're asking God to make special allowance for you and your troubles and, other than you claim to have trusted Him more in the past, you don't honestly seem to me to be a very faithful servant. I know that you likely think that you have been, but now everything has changed. However, what I also know is that God knows your heart. Here you are, having suffered what you believe to be some terrible trial or tragedy, and because you don't think God has stepped in as you would expect Him to, you're ready to chuck it all.

What if God knew that about your commitment 5 years ago? What if He knew that in your time of testing you were going to turn tail and run? I don't think that God's love is ever represented as being 'special' for some, but not others. When the Scriptures tell us that God loved the whole world, it's not speaking of His giving you special attention in your time of need. It's talking about God's love being fairly represented to everyone.

Now, I firmly believe that God loves those who love Him slightly more or differently than His love for the whole world, but He still doesn't promise to come down and pull those who are struggling through trials out of their time of trouble, and especially if He knows that your love for Him was honestly just kind of superficial. You said you used to trust Him more until this time of trouble came upon your life. For someone who trusts and believes in God, why would that be so? Why would, if one had a right understanding of God as He has revealed Himself to us in His word, our worldly circumstance have some bearing on what we believe and know about God? Again, I hold that you have drawn up this picture of God being some kind of genie to come to your rescue in some time of trouble, and there is no Scriptural evidence that He promises to do that. Not that He wouldn't, but He isn't on record as promising that for all those who love Him, life is just going to be a bowl of cherries.

Yes, the Scriptures tell us that He has numbered the hairs on our head, but I don't really see the correlation that then follows from that, as you seem to, that such a claim means that God does micro-manage (or whatever word you would like to use for some special concern for an individual and his particular problems) a believer's life. That He has numbered the hairs on our head just means that He knows and has created us to be as we are. That He's the one who placed 2 million hair follicles in your scalp. For me, that claim doesn't then bring me to understand that because of that, He's going to step right in and sweep away problems in my life.

Questioning Brother said:
I also would point out that Jesus never turned away someone seeking his help regardless of reason. He never told anyone, “No. I can help you, but this suffering is for your eternal good.” He laid hands, cast out demons, he even changed water to wine so his hosts wouldn’t be embarrassed for running out! The idea that God/Jesus/holy Spirit (the trinity) wouldn’t help someone crying out is laughable. Yet that is the kind of God you describe.

Uhhh, no. Let's back up just a bit to your first claim. That's the kind of God that 'you' describe. You're the one claiming that you've lost your faith in God because He isn't meeting your needs as you believe that He should. I'm just trying to explain that such an expectation from God isn't really how the Scriptures describe our life on this earth and when and where God is going to step in and help one of His children.

Gird your loins just mentioned Job and how Job was ultimately given greater blessings from God than those he lost in the first place. However, I think it would be worth asking how long he believes that Job sat in sack cloth and ashes before God rendered that greater blessing. Was it days, weeks or years that Job suffered with his loss? Either way, whatever length of time that it was, his loss was likely greater than yours and he never turned his back on God. I stand by my encouragement to you to look to Job's example of what it likely means to God to be one of His faithful servants.

Questioning Brother said:
A) none of that applies to Job. Instead it applies to Job’s friends.
B) Job would probably have reacted MUCH differently if he had known the real reason (a petty bet) that he suffered.
C) the death of the first set of kids would have done me in. That is also the one thing not restored at the end. He had more kids, but they would not have replaced the first batch.
D) His wife suffered just as badly as he did with even less justification.

Well, obviously you have issues with the fairness and righteousness of God. Beyond what I have written, I can't help you in your struggles. I just pray that you do come to understand the truth of God before you find yourself in some place that you really don't want to be.

God bless,
Ted

Questioning Brother · Sep 22, 2020

So Ted, I have a question.

When you are going through hard times, and things are definitely not going your way, do you pray to God for help or relief?

Because from what you have written here, that would be a waste of time and effort. God isn’t going to help, so why bother? *slaps forehead* I just realized you are AGREEING with me. He doesn’t care enough about what you are suffering with to actually do anything. Sorry, my apologies.

Chris35 · Sep 22, 2020

Its not that God don't care, God's love and understanding is much greater then ours. God acts from a position of love.

What you see, comes from your understanding, and from your love. It is not lining up with God, therefore your blaming God, and calling him unloving, uncaring when it isn't true.

What God is seeing is totally different to what your seeing. Take Jesus for example, suffered and died a horrible death. Could of said alot of the same things your saying, but Jesus knew these things were not true about God. God did care, and love him.

A 12 year old boy loves God and dies of cancer, a week later his unbelieving brother, starts praying and seeking God for answers.
He finds God and comes to Jesus because of his brothers death.

God has a plan, you might not see it but he does.

You have to start praying about your anger, negative attitude, and for understanding. It's not doing you any good at all.

Can you help me with how this is supposed to work...

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