Paul Reveals the timing of Revelation 20

BABerean2 said:

1. I have already shown the difference of Paul’s rapture in 1 Corinthians 15 and the second coming Revelation 19.

2. I have already shown that the second coming could not happen in the the 7th trumpet for it is days long and longer Revelation 10:7.

3. These voices are in Heaven in the middle of the tribulation in anticipation of the great confrontation between Christ and Satan. This is not fulfilled till Revelation 19:11-21.

4. The nations were angry and thy wrath is come which is the Wrath of God Revelation 16:1.
Time of the dead that they should be judged were those who die at Armageddon Revelation 19:18-21.
Rewards to servants and prophets and saints will be in the second half of the tribulation in Heaven not on earth.
Those who destroy the earth was prophetic to the second coming. Jerrykelso

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Jerry,

You seem to be attempting to show the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, in an attempt to make your Two Peoples of God/ Two kingdoms of God doctrine work.


Are there Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation?


Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.


He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.


The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.


The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.


He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?


He comes on a horse in chapter 19.


He comes with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels have already been bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.


The only way to properly interpret the book is through the principle of "Recapitulation".


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baberean2,

1. You and sovereign grace cannot prove the scripture wrong about Paul’s mystery in 1 Corinthians 15 being the rapture was before John who wrote about the trumpets in Revelation 8-11:15-19:10.
that deal with the announcement of the second coming not the fulfillment.

2. I’ve already destroyed your false accusation context of two peoples of God,2 kingdoms and you still ignoring that fact and keep using it. How dishonest!

3. I’ve debunked all your positions you’ve listed in different ways and you can’t give it up.
You circular reason because you cannot prove the point.
You don’t want to learn truth, you just want to defend your personal doctrine.
You accuse me of just repeating what my dispensationalist teachers have said when I hadn’t mentioned none because you hate Dispensationalism. And yet you constantly talk about and when you run into a problem explaining you leave a video of your teachers say on the subject. What hypocrisy.

4. You can believe what you want but it doesn’t mean it’s right.
Just because there are like signs in other scriptures that seem to collaborate with it such as Revelation 6.
Do you believe the seals, trumpets and vials are in consecutive order? Answer that first.

BABerean2 said:

Any doctrine which claims God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people through the sacrifice of His Son at Calvary, cannot be found in the Bible.

Former Dispensationalist Jerry Johnson:

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baberean2,

1. You didn’t answer my question. Do you believe the seals, trumpets and vials are consecutive? Jerrykelso

BABerean2 said:

1. I have already shown the difference of Paul’s rapture in 1 Corinthians 15 and the second coming Revelation 19.

2. I have already shown that the second coming could not happen in the the 7th trumpet for it is days long and longer Revelation 10:7.

3. These voices are in Heaven in the middle of the tribulation in anticipation of the great confrontation between Christ and Satan. This is not fulfilled till Revelation 19:11-21.

4. The nations were angry and thy wrath is come which is the Wrath of God Revelation 16:1.
Time of the dead that they should be judged were those who die at Armageddon Revelation 19:18-21.
Rewards to servants and prophets and saints will be in the second half of the tribulation in Heaven not on earth.
Those who destroy the earth was prophetic to the second coming. Jerrykelso

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Jerry,

You seem to be attempting to show the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, in an attempt to make your Two Peoples of God/ Two kingdoms of God doctrine work.


Are there Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation?


Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.


He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.

The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.

The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.

He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?

He comes on a horse in chapter 19.

He comes with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels have already been bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.

The only way to properly interpret the book is through the principle of "Recapitulation".

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Christ only returns one time, not 3-4 times. Christ appearing at the end of Satan's 1260 days is not the official return. The official return is in Chapter 6. Up until April of 2023, Jesus and the 144K disciples will be reaping the final harvest. Not dead bodies. Dead living humans not part of the church. They are dead in their sinful nature. Not physically dead. This is not a second chance. Those who were not raptured, even if they claimed the words, Lord, Lord, are part of the apostate church and will welcome Satan and the FP. They remain in their wickedness.

The rapture is not an escape. The rapture is the completion of the church of the living and presented to God by The Lamb as a whole assembly and complete. That happens in the opening of the 6th seal, the official Second Coming. Then Jesus will have His second earthly ministry in physical form on earth with 144K Jewish male virgins as His disciples. These 144K is not the church of the last 5990 years. Not even the last 1990 years since the Cross or Pentecost. They are living literal humans alive today.

The 12 original disciples were not symbolic of all the OT believers who came to life and were His disciples for the first 3.5 year earthly ministry. Why do people today think that 144K Jewish male virgins are symbolic of the church during this second earthly ministry? Christ does not co-reign with Satan for 42 months. So, yes, this earthly ministry is interrupted. However the Second Coming already happened before this 1260 day event, not after this event. This event should not even happen.

It is the result of an apostate church. A church that failed to trust and obey God, but played the harlot with the governments of the earth instead. Not from the past, but from those living now. Christians this decade have failed and are failing each day.

jerry kelso said:

baberean2,

1. You didn’t answer my question. Do you believe the seals, trumpets and vials are consecutive? Jerrykelso

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What is your answer?

BABerean2 said:

Since the Northern Tribes went into captivity hundreds of years before the time of Christ, where do you plan to find the pure bloodlines of those tribes now on the earth?

You are just as likely to find a woolly mammoth roaming around in your neighborhood.

Because there are exactly 12,000 in each tribe, we know these numbers are symbolic. There is no place in the Old Testament where the numerations of the tribes have exactly 12,000 in each tribe.

Why did James address his letter to "the twelve tribes" who were his "brethren" in the "faith" in James 1:1-3?


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I

They will return to Israel. It is already happening. Since before 1948 even

BABerean2 said:

If you go to the modern State of Israel and ask those people what tribe they belong to, what kind of an answer do you think you will get?


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they are jews, so most will say Judah I guess

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:

they are jews, so most will say Judah I guess

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I

inventions u is fulfilled by them coming from the northern lands...

Prophecy is complimented should say

BABerean2 said:

Since the Northern Tribes went into captivity hundreds of years before the time of Christ, where do you plan to find the pure bloodlines of those tribes now on the earth?

You are just as likely to find a woolly mammoth roaming around in your neighborhood.

Because there are exactly 12,000 in each tribe, we know these numbers are symbolic. There is no place in the Old Testament where the numerations of the tribes have exactly 12,000 in each tribe.

Why did James address his letter to "the twelve tribes" who were his "brethren" in the "faith" in James 1:1-3?

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Are you asking me or God?

jerry kelso said:

What is your answer?

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baberean2,

What is your answer?
Are the seals, trumpets, vials consecutive or not? Jerry kelso

BABerean2 said:

God already gave His answer about "the twelve tribes" in James 1:1-3.

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He also gave His answer in Revelation 7.

Now can you show which Word was given to the church first? Not that it matters. Revelation 7 has not yet happened. God knew the answer before God created heaven and earth. History has nothing that blind sides God.

BABerean2 said:

The seals were opened by Christ during the first century.
After each seal was opened John was told... "Come and see."
John then recorded what he saw in each of those visions in the Book of Revelation.
That does not mean the events described under those seals have already occurred.

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baberean2,

1. You failed to mention the trumpets and vials specifically.
Visions? You are skating the issue.
Jerrykelso

BABerean2 said:

The seventh trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, is found in Revelation 11:15-18. This is a vision of the Second Coming of Christ, and the time of the judgment of the dead.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


The seventh angel pours out his vial in the text below.
It is another vision of the Second Coming of Christ, which includes the greatest earthquake in history. Look at what happens to the islands and the mountains.

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


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baberean2,

1. You still didn’t answer the question.
Are the seal, trumpets, and vials consecutive?
Why are you beating around the bush? You blew it on the trumpets so what have you got to say about the vials.
Answer the question. Are the seals, trumpets, and vials consecutive? Jerrykelso