The rapture - some say it is near or past or ongoing

Timtofly said:

Paul does as well.

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

Is that why he said that God will give life to our mortal bodies in Romans 8:11, that we look forward to the redemption of our bodies in the same place (Romans 8:23)? Perhaps it's why the very same Apostle says that at Christ's coming He shall change our lowly body to be like His glorious body (Philippians 3:21). Or maybe it's why he says in 1 Corinthians 15:42-55 that the present soulish body shall be raised up spiritual; that the body is buried mortal and corruptible, but the body is raised immortal and incorruptible.

What you are parading around here is the heresy of Alexander, Hymenaeus, and Philetus, who denied the resurrection of the body and said the resurrection was already past.

"Avoid profane babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will consume like a cancer. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some." - 2 Timothy 2:16-18

Concerning the same Hymenaeus the Apostle has spoken that he had removed him and Alexander for their predatory heresy, that they might not cause more to stumble and fall away from the faith by shipwrecking themselves on the sharp rocks of flagrant heresy.

"By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme." - 1 Timothy 1:19b-20

The Christian faith is this: We believe in the resurrection of the body. Carnis resurrectionem.

To deny this is to deny Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

Timtofly said:

Except you are denying that there is a bodily resurrection yourself. What Paul was saying was that Jesus Christ had not returned. You are putting too much emphasis on Judaism, and not the Word of God. Paul says all will be changed. It is immediately upon death. To be absent from this flesh is to be present in an incorruptible body with the Lord. The Atonement on the Cross made that possible. Judaism denies the Cross and that Jesus was the Messiah. Holding to a future general resurrection is Judaism, and you are denying that Jesus was the Messiah, along with Judaism.

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

It's not a question of how every eye sees Him, though I believe this quite literally--when Jesus returns, there won't be anyway to doubt it. Everyone will see Him. Everyone will know it's Him.

It won't be a secret. It won't be able to be denied. Because when He comes, He comes in glory--and every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that He is Lord.

We won't need technology for this--it will be known to all without exception.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

Jamdoc said:

I think technology will make it more possible that every eye will see him, when something happens on 1 side of the world that it'll be visible on the other side as well.

Click to expand...

SeventyOne said:

Not about that specifically, but it is a high watch time, having the Feast of Trumpets may have just started, the holiday marked by both being called the feast where no man knows the day or the hour, as well as having a horn blast known as the 'last trump'.

Add to that the Rabbis are proclaiming they are having meetings with their messiah and this is their last new year's without him being revealed, and Trump announcing as many as seven nations seeking to normalize relations with Israel, which is most likely the coming covenant with 'many' their messiah, our antichrist, will confirm. So, yes, I can see how people are discussing it.

It's even possible they are seeking to try to impose fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10-14 with their strangely timed lockdown. That's a passage which states they will see and receive their messiah (whom they say is there already), at a time when all the families will be separated from each other, as if by a quarantine.

Click to expand...

Lucke said:

Where is the proof that the rabbi say that, there is a video in youtube or something, i am interested, bless

Click to expand...

SeventyOne said:

People like the Sentinelese tribe, and probably well over 100 more tribes, don't have tech or outside contact. Not to mention, the end of the Trib will be a time where most people are dead or starving and the world has been devastated by natural disasters and constant war. I really don't think CNN will be enough to make that even remotely feasible.

Click to expand...

robycop3 said:

For ViaCrucis, the Scriptures you requested :

2 Thess.2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.[/color]
The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to will be the return of Jesus. We see He won't return til the 'beast/antichrist' takes power. And there must be a temple for him to sit in. Obviously, this event didn't occur in the old temple, which was destroyed, making a new temple a "must". Also, this act in that temple is the "abomination of desolation".

Click to expand...

Daniel 9:27
And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

Again, there must be a temple for him to do this.

Matt. 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

We see by Jesus' words. the AOD didn't occur in that day. Some believe that Antiochus Epiphanes' sacrificing a pig on the temple altar was the AOD, but Jesus showed it's still future, as it didn't occur in the temple of that time.

Matt. 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

This occurs after the AOD, as we see by the sequence of Jesus' words in this chapter.

Click to expand...

Rev. 13 goes into more detail about the antichrist & his sidekick, the false prophet. Just carefully read the whole chapter.

Click to expand...

Yes, Scripture provides us a timeline for the eschatological events. I don't know if the building of a new temple in Jerusalem, or the coming of the beast will be first, but we see the beast will come, commit the AOD, issue the marka the beast, the great trib will come, & Jesus will return immediately after He cuts the trib short. Of course, there are many other events that'll occur during the beast's reign til Jesus returns, & I just gave a general sequence of the main events, but, if we see the Jews erect a new temple in Jerusalem, then be ready for the rapture to occur at any time !

Click to expand...

Justified_By_Christ_Alone said:

We are nearing the Daniel 9 covenant given the news on many nations normalizing with Israel.

Daniel 9:27
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

1 Thessalonians 5:3
"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

Daniel 9:27 refers to something that happened centuries before Christ.

"Then the king wrote to his whole kingdom that all should be one people, and that all should give up their particular customs. All the Gentiles accepted the command of the king. Many even from Israel gladly adopted his religion; they sacrificed to idols and profaned the sabbath. And the king sent letters by messengers to Jerusalem and the towns of Judah; he directed them to follow customs strange to the land, to forbid burnt-offerings and sacrifices and drink-offerings in the sanctuary, to profane sabbaths and festivals, to defile the sanctuary and the priests, to build altars and sacred precincts and shrines for idols, to sacrifice swine and other unclean animals, and to leave their sons uncircumcised. They were to make themselves abominable by everything unclean and profane, so that they would forget the law and change all the ordinances. He added, ‘And whoever does not obey the command of the king shall die.’

In such words he wrote to his whole kingdom. He appointed inspectors over all the people and commanded the towns of Judah to offer sacrifice, town by town. Many of the people, everyone who forsook the law, joined them, and they did evil in the land; they drove Israel into hiding in every place of refuge they had.

Now on the fifteenth day of Chislev, in the one hundred and forty-fifth year, they erected a desolating sacrilege on the altar of burnt-offering. They also built altars in the surrounding towns of Judah, and offered incense at the doors of the houses and in the streets. The books of the law that they found they tore to pieces and burned with fire. Anyone found possessing the book of the covenant, or anyone who adhered to the law, was condemned to death by decree of the king. They kept using violence against Israel, against those who were found month after month in the towns. On the twenty-fifth day of the month they offered sacrifice on the altar that was on top of the altar of burnt-offering. In accordance with the decree, they put to death the women who had their children circumcised, and their families and those who circumcised them; and they hung the infants from their mothers’ necks.

But many in Israel stood firm and were resolved in their hearts not to eat unclean food. They chose to die rather than to be defiled by food or to profane the holy covenant; and they did die. Very great wrath came upon Israel." - 1 Maccabees 1:41-64

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

You can talk yourself until your dizzy, it's not going to change the fact that the resurrection of the body is what Christ, the Apostles, and what the Church has always taught.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

Timtofly said:

Which body? The sinful body of Adam's flesh?

Click to expand...

Justified_By_Christ_Alone said:

Dual Prophesy. The bible is full of it. It will happen again.

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

Remember how I said you should read the Scriptures more objectively and critically?

Would a new temple in Jerusalem be God's temple?
What makes the man of sin here the same as the best of the Apocalypse, or the antichrist from 1 and 2 John?

Even going with your chosen interpretation here, how does any of this relate to a disappearing of Christians before a period of tribulation?



You should read 1 Maccabees to understand what is being spoken about in Daniel 9 here. Daniel is talking about the Seleucid ruler Antiochus IV and the abominations brought against the Jews after the Seleucid conquest of Judea from the Ptolemies.

And Jesus is talking about the sacrilege done to the Temple during the Jewish-Roman War, which occurred shortly before the Romans came in and destroyed everything.

Look at Matthew 24 more critically, what is the context of the Olivet Discourse? It is Jesus saying that the Temple would one day no longer be standing--Jesus then answers His disciples' question about the destruction of the Temple that would occur in 70 AD, as well as the issue of the end of the age and His return.






Again, consider the entire context of the book, who is John writing to? Why do you simply assume the Beast here refers to an end of the world antichrist? When John says himself writes that he was told to write down what is happening and must shortly happen.



Where? Where does Scripture provide us a timeline like this?

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

ViaCrucis said:

Remember how I said you should read the Scriptures more objectively and critically?

Would a new temple in Jerusalem be God's temple?
What makes the man of sin here the same as the best of the Apocalypse, or the antichrist from 1 and 2 John?

Even going with your chosen interpretation here, how does any of this relate to a disappearing of Christians before a period of tribulation?



You should read 1 Maccabees to understand what is being spoken about in Daniel 9 here. Daniel is talking about the Seleucid ruler Antiochus IV and the abominations brought against the Jews after the Seleucid conquest of Judea from the Ptolemies.

And Jesus is talking about the sacrilege done to the Temple during the Jewish-Roman War, which occurred shortly before the Romans came in and destroyed everything.

Look at Matthew 24 more critically, what is the context of the Olivet Discourse? It is Jesus saying that the Temple would one day no longer be standing--Jesus then answers His disciples' question about the destruction of the Temple that would occur in 70 AD, as well as the issue of the end of the age and His return.






Again, consider the entire context of the book, who is John writing to? Why do you simply assume the Beast here refers to an end of the world antichrist? When John says himself writes that he was told to write down what is happening and must shortly happen.



Where? Where does Scripture provide us a timeline like this?

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...