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So how is it that, "Protesting is not a Christian response."?
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Protestantism has done more harm than good.
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Constantine's entire intent and success was blending all
the religions of the country into one universal religion.
You seem to be arguing that didn't happen.
That Roman Catholics don't exist.
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Albion
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Reading through these posts convinces me that a lot of the divisiveness owes to not understanding terms. Protestant, for instance, and sacrament for another.
Protestant does not mean that there's a protest over doctrine or against any denomination; and sacrament does not derive from sacred, if that's the reason for the Baptists coming up with their own alternative.
There's no reason for anybody to fear either one.
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- Jul 2, 2018
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I was quoting @SkyWriting
He said to leave was protest, but earlier said, "Protesting is not a Christian response."
I don't recall to what.
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- Aug 14, 2019
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Well, I have to disagree with you about Mary. It is obvious from God's word that she did not remain a virgin. I know the Catholic arguments. They are wrong. Mary is entitled to respect and honour. So is every born again Christian who devoted their lives to the Kingdom of God. Lord Jesus is the Word of God. Or are you claiming that Mary is equal to Lord Jesus? Which of the epistles instructs us to pray to Mary? It is pure assumption (according to Roman Catholicism) that Mary left this earth by assumption. By all means insist that people confess Orthodox doctrine before they can join your denomination. I think differently. I welcome all who are born again, even if I disagree with some of their beliefs. If my beliefs are so fragile that I can't stand any scrutiny, then they are hardly worth having.
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- Jun 26, 2018
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There's a book called Behold Your Mother by Tim Staples. It's about Catholic beliefs about Mary. He's a former Protestant Minster. I haven't read it but I've listened to some of his explanations.
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a-lily-of-peace
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I don’t think it’s “obvious” that Mary didn’t remain a virgin. I’ve heard said in support of this the fact that Jesus had brothers and sisters, but in Hebrew thought a child by your father but not by your mother is still your brother or sister.
Scriptural evidence for Mary remaining a virgin is in John 19:26-27, which read in combination with 1 Timothy 5:3-8 gives me the sense that Jesus knew he was leaving and wanted to make sure his mother had a son to care for her. The impact is that even before the baptism of the Holy Spirit, he would not leave her alone in the world, because A father of the fatherless, a defender of widows, Is God in His holy habitation. (Psalm 68:5, NKJV).
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The Barbarian
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In one sense, it's unfortunate that Christians are divided. On the other hand, it's good that there are denominations which truly worship God and accept the death and Resurrection of His only Son as our salvation, which also attract those who might not be attracted to other denominations.
Salvation is more important than denominations. If your path to God is slightly different that mine, why should I care, so long as you come to Him?
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I just read this and it put into words my recent experience:
G.K. Chesterton, a convert to Catholicism, remarked that a convert’s first step toward conversion is when he decides to be fair to the Catholic Church:
It is impossible to be just to the Catholic Church. The moment a man ceases to pull against it he feels a tug towards it. The moment he ceases to shout it down he begins to listen to it with pleasure. The moment he tries to be fair to it he begins to be fond of it.
G.K. Chesterton, a convert to Catholicism, remarked that a convert’s first step toward conversion is when he decides to be fair to the Catholic Church:
It is impossible to be just to the Catholic Church. The moment a man ceases to pull against it he feels a tug towards it. The moment he ceases to shout it down he begins to listen to it with pleasure. The moment he tries to be fair to it he begins to be fond of it.
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truefiction1
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It's obvious from God's Word that she did remain a virgin, and that all of Christ's brothers were not biological son's of the Mother of God (see Ezekiel 44:2). But we must realize that your interpretation of God's word is "your" interpretation, and is therefor informed only by your own knowledge and experience, however limited or flawed these might be. For example, Christ gave his mother into the care of His disciple John. If the Mother of God had other living sons, then Jewish social custom of the day would have required Mary to be placed in the care of one of her other biological sons. Thus, it's pretty evident that she didn't have any other biological sons, and all of Jesus' disciples knew that she didn't, and we who are His disciples now... we know it too. It's intuitive to us who know who the Mother of God is. The mere idea of her having ever had sexual relations or conceiving any other children is, frankly, about the most impious and egregious thing we have heard since Arius taught that the Eternal Logos of the Father is a being that God created out of nothing, like all other created things. So, yes, if such ideas are brought forward about the holy vessel (Mother of God the Word) through which God entered into creation are being taught, then they are soundly rejected, and it is because of the Word of God, and because of the Holy Spirit, that the Church rejects such ideas. Why is this important? Because by distorting, by errant teaching, the nature of the holiest woman who was ever created and nurtured by God's grace into such holiness and purity, we distort the understanding of human holiness (especially the holiness of womanhood), and this distortion has adverse effects upon the overall spirituality of believers.
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Truth is singular.
The church was told to expand, not to fragment into thousands of competing visions.
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GenemZ
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They all wore sandals back then. No need today for such washing, with modern day shoes and sneakers (and socks) keeping our feet free from the dirt. They had primarily dirt roads and paths.... Very dirty feet at the end of the day considering the animal refuse left in the roads.
Yet, I still prefer Birkenstocks.
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GenemZ
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Yet Peter warned his own congregation that the cause for such divisions was to begin with them.
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as
there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly
introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord
who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many
will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth
into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with
fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over
them, and their destruction has not been sleeping." 2 Pet 2:1-3
there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly
introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord
who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many
will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth
into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with
fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over
them, and their destruction has not been sleeping." 2 Pet 2:1-3
That does not speak very highly of those who wish to claim superiority when claiming they descended directly from Peter, does it?
It all comes down to correctly interpreting Scriptures. Not who held office before you did. Did George Bush make Obama into a better president?
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Albion
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No, what's evident is that Jesus could, once again, have broken with social convention for one reason or another of his own. Imagine!
And it might have been recorded in Scripture for that very reason.???
That appears to be the argument I'm reading, not that "It's obvious from God's Word that she did remain a virgin," which is what the post I'm replying to started us off with.
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truefiction1
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We can imagine all we want, but that is not what happened. So... no. The most holy, most pure, most blessed and glorious lady Theotokos and ever-virgin Mary did not conceive any child other than the One she conceived virginally, and even after giving birth she remains virgin. This is the truth, as surely as I am a sinner needing to repent.No, what's evident is that Jesus could, once again, have broken with social convention for one reason or another of his own. Imagine!
???
That appears to be the argument I'm reading, not that "It's obvious from God's Word that she did remain a virgin," which is what the post I'm replying to started us off with.
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Albion
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And imagining was the main part of your contention, as you explained it in that post. It would be appropriate if Mary were this or that, in your way of looking at the matter, so you imagine that it must have happened.
If we were to take everything that Scripture teaches about her under our consideration, the only conclusion that could be reached is that it tells an almost surprising story of Mary NOT being special, or treated in any special way by her son, except for that one monumental fact of her having been chosen to give birth to the Savior.
All the rest--eternal virginity, mother of us all, never committed a sin, was assumed bodily into heaven, etc.--is the account of humans having elaborated upon her story in order to honor her. It's not surprising that such a thing might have happened; we do it with political figures all the time and, in fact, have an expression for it--"bigger than life."
Yeh. That sort of thing.
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So did Mary's husband Joseph need to have a "concubine" or was he also forced into celibacy for the rest of his days? I see a lot of arguments on CF that a husband or wife are sinning if they deny one another for too long in a marriage relationship and yet here we have the supposed example that one is holy, blessed, and pure only if they aren't virgins within a marriage relationship. Something doesn't sound too right here.
Can't a man or a woman be pure, holy, and blessed while still actively participating (so to speak) within the marriage covenant?
I truly don't understand why it is such a horrible thought that Mary just might have lived a very normal and productive and very human life rather than just sitting around on a pedestal twiddling her thumbs and maybe posing for a few paintings.
Can't a man or a woman be pure, holy, and blessed while still actively participating (so to speak) within the marriage covenant?
I truly don't understand why it is such a horrible thought that Mary just might have lived a very normal and productive and very human life rather than just sitting around on a pedestal twiddling her thumbs and maybe posing for a few paintings.
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So you are of the opinion that if anyone tried to introduce anything pagan into the church faithful Christians should not protest?
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