20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

Status
Not open for further replies.

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
8,983
3,447
USA
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So God cannot do as He pleases, and resurrect whom He chooses. You have the say so when God can work?

God can do what He wants. But He will not work outside His parameters with man-made theology.
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I care little what you think. I prefer what the Lord thinks. He will not deny His truth to accomodate the Premil theory.
God told you that Revelation 20 was a mistake? Pre mill is not a theory. It is a man made theology just like post mill and amill.

They all try to explain the 1000 years mentioned in Revelation 20. I suppose the theory is John wrote the book of Revelation as well? If any theology is a theory, are there test we run to prove such theories?

The truth is a physical resurrection of dead souls given incorruptible bodies, but not glorified bodies. It is John in Revelation 20 that comes up with a resurrection that is not into a glorified body. Any thoughts other than a physical non glorified resurrection of souls that have literally physically died is speculation and man made theology. It has to be incorruptible because that is the physical type of body that Paul taught. Being immortal is to become the full son of God in a glorified spirit body. In Revelation 6 and 7, John claims robes of white. John does not claim robes of white in the resurrection of Revelation 20.

Prove your theory of only one type of resurrection. You do not even accept Lazarus was resurrected. He never died then, I take it?
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
8,983
3,447
USA
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God told you that Revelation 20 was a mistake? Pre mill is not a theory. It is a man made theology just like post mill and amill.

They all try to explain the 1000 years mentioned in Revelation 20. I suppose the theory is John wrote the book of Revelation as well? If any theology is a theory, are there test we run to prove such theories?

The truth is a physical resurrection of dead souls given incorruptible bodies, but not glorified bodies. It is John in Revelation 20 that comes up with a resurrection that is not into a glorified body. Any thoughts other than a physical non glorified resurrection of souls that have literally physically died is speculation and man made theology. It has to be incorruptible because that is the physical type of body that Paul taught. Being immortal is to become the full son of God in a glorified spirit body. In Revelation 6 and 7, John claims robes of white. John does not claim robes of white in the resurrection of Revelation 20.

Prove your theory of only one type of resurrection. You do not even accept Lazarus was resurrected. He never died then, I take it?

Is there a resurrection in the New Testament, pertaining to the believer, which precedes the physical resurrection, which releases a man from the punishment of the second death (eternal wrath)? If so, what is it?

Is the resurrection mentioned throughout the Word of God that delivers us from eternal punishment (the second death), physical or spiritual?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BABerean2
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Is there a resurrection in the New Testament, pertaining to the believer, which precedes the physical resurrection, which releases a man from the punishment of the second death (eternal wrath)? If so, what is it?

Is the resurrection mentioned throughout the Word of God that delivers us from eternal punishment (the second death), physical or spiritual?
Resurrection does not release a believer from the second death. The Atonement on the Cross accomplished that condition.

What believers fail to see is that resurrection in Christ is immediate upon death. Lazarus was the only example of a physical resurrection explained by Paul in his letters. You reject Lazarus as being physically changed in his resurrection even though it fulfilled the Scriptures about Jesus calling them by name from the dead.

There is not a single general physical resurrection other than Revelation 20, and you claim Revelation 20 is a fluke and is not literal. So it is you who needs to prove any general physical resurrection of the believer. Revelation 20 does not count, nor can you use it as an example.

Those physically resurrected in Revelation 20:4 can never physically die again. A second physical death is just an assumed speculation. Scripture does state only once to die. There is no death after being judged, if one is given a new physical body. Can you prove those beheaded just have their heads reconnected, or is the soul given a different body. If it is different, Paul says a changed body is now incorruptible. Physical death nor the second death can kill this body. That is the physical resurrection to eternal life.

Paul does not teach a general resurrection. (If he had been specific, some would never teach it happens at the GWT for believers, nor an unknown time at the battle of Armageddon) It is the change this corruptible flesh from Adam is changed upon physical death. It is like a seed that is planted and dies, and is changed. That is just symbolic. The resurrection and change is immediate upon physical death. Unless the current body comes back to life, the change is permanent. Explain a physical body that decays after being 4 days dead. If the body cannot recover, it would be a miracle whether it was the original or a changed body. Are you saying God cannot give the 1st century believers a living example of what would happen to all believers? Heaven and Paradise are just as physical as earth is.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
8,983
3,447
USA
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Resurrection does not release a believer from the second death. The Atonement on the Cross accomplished that condition.

What believers fail to see is that resurrection in Christ is immediate upon death. Lazarus was the only example of a physical resurrection explained by Paul in his letters. You reject Lazarus as being physically changed in his resurrection even though it fulfilled the Scriptures about Jesus calling them by name from the dead.

There is not a single general physical resurrection other than Revelation 20, and you claim Revelation 20 is a fluke and is not literal. So it is you who needs to prove any general physical resurrection of the believer. Revelation 20 does not count, nor can you use it as an example.

Those physically resurrected in Revelation 20:4 can never physically die again. A second physical death is just an assumed speculation. Scripture does state only once to die. There is no death after being judged, if one is given a new physical body. Can you prove those beheaded just have their heads reconnected, or is the soul given a different body. If it is different, Paul says a changed body is now incorruptible. Physical death nor the second death can kill this body. That is the physical resurrection to eternal life.

Paul does not teach a general resurrection. (If he had been specific, some would never teach it happens at the GWT for believers, nor an unknown time at the battle of Armageddon) It is the change this corruptible flesh from Adam is changed upon physical death. It is like a seed that is planted and dies, and is changed. That is just symbolic. The resurrection and change is immediate upon physical death. Unless the current body comes back to life, the change is permanent. Explain a physical body that decays after being 4 days dead. If the body cannot recover, it would be a miracle whether it was the original or a changed body. Are you saying God cannot give the 1st century believers a living example of what would happen to all believers? Heaven and Paradise are just as physical as earth is.

Answer the questions.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BABerean2
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
We are born spiritually dead. It needs to be brought to spiritual life.
We are born seperated from our spirit. That is why we as humans are sealed by the Holy Spirit. The soul lives in a physical body that has to be changed from corruption to incorruption. The spirit will join us at the rapture. That is what becoming immortal, glorified, and the robe of white sanctification moment is. Our soul and incorruptible body puts on the robe of white and is glorified as bright light, like the transfiguration, witnessed by Peter, James, and John. No, the spirit is not resurrected. It is currently in the presence of God. A spirit not in the presence of God is a demon.
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
8,983
3,447
USA
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We are born seperated from our spirit. That is why we as humans are sealed by the Holy Spirit. The soul lives in a physical body that has to be changed from corruption to incorruption. The spirit will join us at the rapture. That is what becoming immortal, glorified, and the robe of white sanctification moment is. Our soul and incorruptible body puts on the robe of white and is glorified as bright light, like the transfiguration, witnessed by Peter, James, and John. No, the spirit is not resurrected. It is currently in the presence of God. A spirit not in the presence of God is a demon.

What? Where do you get all this in Scripture? Please quote Scripture.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BABerean2
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Stop avoiding the issues. Where do you get your teaching? It is time to stop presenting personal opinion.
Stop avoiding Genesis 3. Read it and give the theology you were taught at the least, if you are afraid of private interpretation.
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
8,983
3,447
USA
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Stop avoiding Genesis 3. Read it and give the theology you were taught at the least, if you are afraid of private interpretation.

A sign someone has no answers is that they answer a question with a question. Your continued avoidance is testimony that your beliefs do not correspond to the Word.
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
A sign someone has no answers is that they answer a question with a question. Your continued avoidance is testimony that your beliefs do not correspond to the Word.
Neither do yours, as you have no rebuttal. Adam and Eve died that day, because that is what God said. They died spiritually and physically. Their physical bodies were changed from perfect to imperfect. That was a physical death. Their physical bodies were separated from their spiritual body. If you do not accept a ghost, then you should not accept a demonic presence in another human. Cut out all verses from the Bible on demon possession. You claim Satan is a spiritual being which is wrong. Satan is an angel known in the Bible as a chief literal star. No longer a star, he exist in physical form on earth. As an angel unaware, he can look like a human, but if his body was examined by a coroner or medical professional, it would not be a fallen human physiology. It would not even be a son of God physiology. It would be an angel physiology.

I could post all the verses related to the sons of God. But it is not my job to refute your theology. Nor does it seem probable that I can convince you either way. Unless you are going to use your own scripture, I do not see the point in giving you Scripture so you can deny God’s Word further.

If you deny Adam and Eve died physically that instant, then you believe Satan who said, "surely you will not die". The soul did not die. Yet God says, "the soul that sins against me, shall surely die." Some even argue that the lake of fire is total death and annihilation. God says that is just the second death. Can you show one verse in human writing that declares a third death?

Like Satan, I am not tempting anyone to disobey God. How can a soul die then? It can die physically, no more body of flesh. It can die spiritually, no more spirit. That is the first and second death.

The soul itself cannot die. Now some teach that Adam and Eve's physical body was "just" changed. Well that means their original physical form died and they were given a new physical form. Paul explains to us that now we need to change back, both physically and spiritually. You proclaim these truths of Paul in the NT. But you fail to apply them to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3.

If Paul specifies two changes, he covers both the physical death, and the spiritual death. If these changes only occur after death, then we are dead both in this body, and dead to a spirit that is not dead, but we are dead to our spirit. If the spirit is not present with God, then it is dead to God, a demon that is cast out of His presence. A demon that Jesus points out is not bound in hell, but can possess those who claim to leave their minds open to the spiritual world, so a demon can possess them. A spirit in the presence of God will never leave God and possess another human. God claims humans are dead to their spirit and any other spirt. If you accept demonic activity, the only spirit body a soul can take on is a false spirit, a demon.

The Holy Spirit replaces our spirit. Can a human replace the Holy Spirit with demons? Can a human replace the Holy Spirit and ask God to give them back their own spirit? Are you a dispensationalist who denies the Holy Spirit was at work in all humans since the birth of Seth? God's Spirit in us at work was evident in Enoch before the Flood. The righteousness of Noah was not Noah's soul, but following the Spirit of God. The knowledge of good and evil, the propensity of sinful nature suppressed that Spirit working to save us from our own destruction. Very few humans took advantage of that simple truth. Some even name their sons Seth, but Seth was the first born in sin 100 years after the curse. His birth was not special because he was godly, nor because of his parents, but he was the promise of God's Spirit working in us as a hope for all of Adam's descendants. That was the only thing going for Seth. If you deny Seth's condition as pointed out, what do you offer as proof of God working on earth? Where does it say Seth was godly, or special in any other way, than his actual birth?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is not a single general physical resurrection other than Revelation 20,


How can there be a time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others in Revelation 11:18, without a bodily resurrection of the dead?


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


The timing of the event described in John 5:27-30 is found above.



.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.