Covenant and New Covenant theology

BABerean2

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Yes, Peter was also aware of the same OT prophetic timetable, that was why he was preaching only to Israel in early Acts, and reacted to Cornelius the way he did in Acts 10:28.


Why then do the promoters of your doctrine often call the Church the "Gentile Church", in an effort to make their Two Peoples of God doctrine work?


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Guojing

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Why then do the promoters of your doctrine often call the Church the "Gentile Church", in an effort to make their Two Peoples of God doctrine work?
.

That has nothing to do with the OT prophetic timetable that you are addressing.
 
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mkgal1

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Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
You might have to speak a little louder for those in the back ^_^
 
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mkgal1

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Yes, Peter was also aware of the same OT prophetic timetable, that was why he was preaching only to Israel in early Acts, and reacted to Cornelius the way he did in Acts 10:28.
Exactly. So that can't be Israel "falling" - not True Israel.
 
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Guojing

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Exactly. So that can't be Israel "falling" - not True Israel.

I already said before, that Israel fallen after they stoned Stephen in Acts 7, so yes, in early Acts, Israel was still God's favored nation.

You heard the question the 11 asked Jesus before he ascended in Acts 1:6, that question is the motivation behind why Peter only preached to Israel in early Acts.

Israel to me refers to the nation Israel, I don't follow your method of separating true Israel from fake Israel.

We in the Body of Christ are NOT Israel in anyway, whether true or fake.
 
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jgr

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The Jews must first be filled before the Gentiles, because that is the timetable set in OT passages like Zechariah 8.

John 3:16 includes all of the world's Gentiles and all of the world's Jews, with no waiting for anyone to "first be filled".

John and the Holy Spirit who inspired him were fully aware of Zechariah 8.
 
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Guojing

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John 3:16 includes all of the world's Gentiles and all of the world's Jews, with no waiting for anyone to "first be filled".

John and the Holy Spirit who inspired him were fully aware of Zechariah 8.

I already quoted Jesus's own words in Mark 7:27.

Whether you want to accept the literal meaning of those words or not, that is up to you.
 
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jgr

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I already quoted Jesus's own words in Mark 7:27.

Whether you want to accept the literal meaning of those words or not, that is up to you.

Has Mark 7:27 delayed the fulfillment of John 3:16?
 
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jgr

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The nation Israel has fallen, by the time Acts 7 came, so of course both are yet to be fulfilled now.

So that means neither you nor I are saved, because John 3:16 is "yet to be fulfilled".
 
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Guojing

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So that means neither you nor I are saved, because John 3:16 is "yet to be fulfilled".

In the first place John 3:16 has no defined end point.

More importantly, we are saved by the gospel of the grace of God, which was given to the Apostle Paul, to us gentiles, after Israel has fallen (Romans 11:11).

The OT prophetic program was interrupted by God's mystery program, which was hidden in God since the foundation of the world, to be revealed to Paul (Ephesians 3:9)
 
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jgr

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In the first place John 3:16 has no defined end point.

More importantly, we are saved by the gospel of the grace of God, which was given to the Apostle Paul, to us gentiles, after Israel has fallen (Romans 11:11).

The OT prophetic program was interrupted by God's mystery program, which was hidden in God since the foundation of the world, to be revealed to Paul (Ephesians 3:9)

Since we don't agree, let's consult the wisdom of the saints again.

What recognized apologist of the true Church agreed or agrees that John 3:16 is "yet to be fulfilled"?

Quote, name, date, source please.
 
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Guojing

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Since we don't agree, let's consult the wisdom of the saints again.

What recognized apologist of the true Church agreed or agrees that John 3:16 is "yet to be fulfilled"?

Quote, name, date, source please.

I don't understand your concern about John 3:16. Since it has no end point, how can it be fulfilled completely?

It is a "If-then conditional", there will always be new people being born every day who will then need to believe in Christ, even during the millennial reign of Christ.
 
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jgr

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I don't understand your concern about John 3:16. Since it has no end point, how can it be fulfilled completely?

It is a "If-then conditional", there will always be new people being born every day who will then need to believe in Christ, even during the millennial reign of Christ.

It is fulfilled completely every time "whosoever believeth".

Awaiting your findings of the wisdom of the saints.
 
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Guojing

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It is fulfilled completely every time "whosoever believeth".

Awaiting your findings of the wisdom of the saints.

If that is what you meant by fulfilled, then alright, I agree with you.

But as I stated, Israel has rejected their Messiah for the final time in Acts 7, and fallen after that (Romans 11:11)
 
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jgr

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If that is what you meant by fulfilled, then alright, I agree with you.

But as I stated, Israel has rejected their Messiah for the final time in Acts 7, and fallen after that (Romans 11:11)

Romans 11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Israel was comprised of two groups, the election and the rest.

Who was fallen?

1. The election
2. The rest
 
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mkgal1

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But as I stated, Israel has rejected their Messiah for the final time in Acts 7, and fallen after that (Romans 11:11)
The problem I keep seeing repeated is the two Israels (apostate & faithful) are being combined when speaking of falling......yet, when speaking of the faithful, there's no room to consider them (because all were already lumped in the the apostate). See what I mean?
 
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Guojing

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Romans 11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Israel was comprised of two groups, the election and the rest.

Who was fallen?

1. The election
2. The rest

A remnant of Israel did believed. God always had a small group who believed, as Paul explained in Romans 11:1-5.

But the nation, that corporate entity, as a whole has fallen, it will be that same nation, that will accept Jesus and be saved in his 2nd coming, as stated in Romans 11:26
 
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Guojing

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The problem I keep seeing repeated is the two Israels (apostate & faithful) are being combined when speaking of falling......yet, when speaking of the faithful, there's no room to consider them (because all were already lumped in the the apostate). See what I mean?

Its because you don't accept that God had a covenant with the entire nation ever since Moses, as stated in Exodus 19:3-6.

While that covenant was in effect, individual Jews are saved so long as they belong to that nation.

But after the nation has fallen, individual Jews could only be saved, like the rest of us, thru the Body of Christ in 1 Cor 15:1-4.
 
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