This was the first sentence:
You must see that you have made 2 different categories of gifts.
The first category is "prophesy".
The second category is "every other gift"
Why is the one continuing, and why is there an exclusion of all others?. It is another "by definition, definition". I am not taking any position, yet, but consistence of interpretation demands that there must be a reason why. according to your belief, that one stays, and eleven cease.
You see, if it is the case that Ephesians supports continuance, then there should likewise be Scriptures to demonstrate the situation of the other 11 Gifts.
As you are presenting it, there is evidence for prophecy continuing in Ephesians 4, but there is silence about the other eleven. Logically, the only thing that silence proves is silence on THAT issue.
What is the basis for your saying "This gift does not cease, but the others do?
Some pertinent questions about that verse:
Where in Ephesians or any of the books Paul wrote is the phrase "until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God "defined"? If there is no definition found, then no one can actually determine if those conditions are wholly met.
And if that is the case, being undefined is true, then those attempting to make a sure statement that that proves...... then that person is essentially arguing from silence, and as I stated earlier, silence on an issue only proves silence on THAT issue.
The same argument as above also skewers this phrase, "attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." Since it is not defined, there is no one who can say, "it means thus and such"
That leaves the person who is advocating a positive response where a negative situation (nothing defined nor explained) in the position of relying more on wishful thinking than on exegesis of the Word.
I understand that you may not like the reasoning that I expressed, but if I am in error, please demonstrate it, and show it.
BTW I am not attacking any posters. Instead, I am laying out some of the logical traps we fall into if we do not do diligence to logical thoughts and conclusions.
You are trying to make an example out of my post. As we will see later, you should have politely addressed me with respect and spared me the lecture on logical thought and kept quiet on your arguing from silence idiocy:
1. I did not create categories of gifts - for the purpose of argument I addressed one and stated that in my introduction. Fabrication on your part.
2. I did not say one was continuing and the others were not. Fabrication on your part.
3. Again from my intro, I said I would address only 1 gift. It is common in Engineering to focus on one issue at a time - it is the divide and conquer technique. It reduces the number of variables and allows you to better solve an issue. It does not prevent one from later moving to solve other issues. Faulty reasoning assumptions on your part.
4. The true meaning of Ephesians 4:13 is difficult. Although, there are many interpretations, I don't think there are honest ones that are going to say "we all come to the unity of the faith" has been accomplished. If just that part of Ephesians 4:13 has not been kept, then through a chain of reasoning, I conclude that the Gift of Prophecy is for today. I give you partial credit here. I should have used a paragraph to describe this. I don't need to go into great depth as you infer because I am only trying to establish that the Body of Christ has not attained Ephesians 4:13.
My original argument is included below for your convenience:
This is an argument for the continuation of the Gift of Prophecy. I am not arguing about the other Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
In
Ephesians 4:11-16, Paul talks about the following 5 ministries within the Church and their overall purpose as a group: Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers.
Ephesians 4:11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Ephesians 4:13 indicates the condition under which those 5 ministries would cease. So unless you believe
Ephesians 4:13 has been fulfilled, the ministry of the Prophet is still active in the body of Christ. The ministry of the Prophet requires the Gift of Prophecy.
