Is the Day of the Lord exactly 1000 years as Premils claim?

BobRyan

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(1) Anyone who contends that 2 Peter 3 supports the Premillennial theory that the day of the Lord lasts a literal 1,000 years after the second coming must surely see the absolute absurdity of their notion in the light of the destructive nature of the passage.

Our pre-mill position comes from the fact that Rev 19 is the second coming and Rev 20 is the millennium. The second coming happens before the millennium.

Going to 2 Peter 3 to get that same level of detail is "less" straightforward.
 
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BobRyan

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I believe Revelation is not a chronological unfolding of end-time events, but is a series of recapitulations or retelling of events that culminate in the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Revelation 6-22 consists of a number of figurative prophetic parallels (seven in total) revealing the overall battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. They relate, like every other New Testament book, to the period running between the first and Second Advents. Significantly, the conclusion of each parallel terminates with a record of the glorious Second Advent, which includes the rescue of His saint and the final destruction of the wicked.

Amen to that!
 
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sovereigngrace

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Our pre-mill position comes from the fact that Rev 19 is the second coming and Rev 20 is the millennium. The second coming happens before the millennium.

Going to 2 Peter 3 to get that same level of detail is "less" straightforward.

I know, I used to believe it. But Rev 19 is totally destructive. There are no survivors. It totally negates a chronological approach. It totally correlates with 2 Peter 3 and every other climactic passage.
 
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Timtofly

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Now no one is arguing that there any semi-saved or semi-lost people or third group of people being permitted into the Kingdom brought to earth but this multitude who comes against the camp of God cannot have been among the righteous who will be granted entrance into this Kingdom. They cannot be any of the wicked slain, judged, and cast into the everlasting fire when He returns, but they will have to have arisen from somewhere,

The millennium is 1000 years and about 40 generations. By the 35th to 40th generation removed to the furthest corners of the earth, they will not have the same convictions and experiences of the first generation. It is not rocket science it is common sense after people have spread out like rabbits. The first generation could still have offspring at 700 years of age. It will be like pre Flood conditions, but without a sin nature like Adam's 7th generation experienced. Amil have flimsy excuses why this millennium is not set apart like a Sabbath Holy unto God.
 
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I believe Revelation is not a chronological unfolding of end-time events, but is a series of recapitulations or retelling of events that culminate in the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Revelation 6-22 consists of a number of figurative prophetic parallels (seven in total) revealing the overall battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. They relate, like every other New Testament book, to the period running between the first and Second Advents. Significantly, the conclusion of each parallel terminates with a record of the glorious Second Advent, which includes the rescue of His saint and the final destruction of the wicked.

Parallels are simply different camera views of the same corresponding intra-Advent period which look at different aspects of the great battle between darkness and light.


You hold to that belief without having provided from the text itself that the book of Revelation is not in chronological order and there is nothing therein to suggest it to be a recap of anything as it, as made clear by its introductory verse (Rev. 1:1) a prophetic book of things to come. The only recap we encounter is in the first five verses of Revelation chapter 12 but that is done in order for us to better understand what is to take place in the future. And what within any of those chapters suggest them to be a parallel of anything? Granted that there are chapters such 4, 12, 13, 14, and 17 that no doubt contain a symbolic context, but the rest, for the most part, are presented as being literal.

What the book of Revelation appears to do after the ending of the eleventh chapter is show us what must take place before the announced judgment.


This proves the coming of Christ is the end. The text says it. All rebellion is put down forever. There is no room for some supposed future millennium. This correlates with the end of Satan's little season.


Apparently John thinks there is room for a future millennium, Satan's imprisonment in the bottomless pit during that time, and a brief final season for him to be released for the purpose of testing the people on the earth in order to reveal what is truly in their hearts. If he didn't, we would know anything about it.


No. The corrupt aspect of this earth is removed by regenerating fire when Jesus comes and replaced with a new perfect earth. Romans 8, 1 Cor 15 and 2 Peter 3 all correlate and prove the Amil scenario and forbids Premil.


The Apostle John puts this regenerating fire at the end of the thousand year intermission. If the new heaven and new earth are supposed to be created when Christ returns, then why does John tell us that there is going to be a thousand year intermission before then, and answering that challenge with a symbolic interpretation that Revelation 20 does not support is not going to bring contextual harmonization between the cited passages and the events of Revelation 20.


No. I do not know where you get that. It definitely isn't in Matthew 25. It, like every other second coming passage, makes no mention of your supposed future millennial reign. The sheep (dead and alive) are glorified. That is what happens to all the saints when Jesus comes.


It most certainly is in Matthew 25. What is missing in Matthew 25 is the catching away. If the catching away and the return of Christ to the earth are supposed to be the same event, then how can we possibly have a division between the sheep and the goats. If the sheep are caught away from the earth, then what is there to divide the goats from?


Jesus says there is no marriage or death in the age to come, thus reinforcing the Amil argument and negating the Premil one that is filled with sin and sinners, crying and dying.


I am not the one who used the word "populate". You did. Now we can both agree that the wicked will not be allowed to "populate" the earth, but you did not exclude the righteous from populating the earth, and while no one is claiming that the glorified and resurrected saints are doing the populating, you don't seem to know what populate actually means.


There are only 2 peoples on planet earth thorough time - saved and lost. The saved are rescued when Jesus comes and the lost are destroyed. You invent some imaginary third group that is unknown to Holy Writ that are too wicked to be rescued and to righteous to be destroyed. The reality is they do not exist. That is a figment of your imagination.


I am not inventing some imaginary third group because any children produced by surviving mortals who have not aligned themselves with the forces of darkness are also going to end up on either choosing righteousness or wickedness as well and their choices are revealed at the end of the millennial reign.


What are the main differences in your view?


In the millennial earth, Christ and the saints are ruling and reigning but in order for them to rule and reign, there have to be subjects for them to rule over.
Satan during that duration is bound in the abyss and unable to cause evil of any kind.
But at the end of that duration, Satan is released and in that season, it is revealed where all the subjects under Christ truly stand and those who attempt to overthrow Christ are quickly annihilated by fire out of Heaven.

In the New Heaven and New Earth, God the Father comes to dwell with Christ among men in the New Jerusalem, whereas in the thousand year reign, the New Jerusalem is not yet present.
Satan has been forever cast into the Lake of Fire whereas in the thousand year reign, he was only temporarily imprisoned.
Death is also nowhere to be found on the new earth whereas in the thousand reign, not all the dead have been brought back to life.


Oh, so is this a gradual unfolding progressive renewal of your millennial earth when the earth becomes less corrupt and more pure?


I didn't write the chapter, the Apostle John did and under divine direction.
 
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Yes they do., You are fighting again with Scripture. Your doctrine forces you to do this on every subject.


No, they do not since they have nothing to do with anything that the Apostle John wrote about; they pertain to different events and subject matter altogether and it is you who are fighting with scripture by attempting to impose an interpretation upon them that they do not contextually support. If the usage of a fixed number in the cases of the passages you cited was meant to be symbolic, there should be an interpretation attached. There is none.
 
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Timtofly

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Yes i did. I am talking about every single Amil argument on this thread. You have to because you have repeatedly conceded that all you have is your private interpretation of Rev 20. This is what exposes and defeats your whole thesis. This is not biblical hermeneutics but man-made teaching.

When we look for the originators and formulators of modern-day Premillennialism we actually arrive at four shadowy early figures. The first two operated at the very infancy of early church history – Cerinthus of Asia Minor (50-100 AD) and Marcion of Sinope, Asia Minor (Born: 85 AD, Died: 160 AD). Both of these were viewed as arch-heretics and were strongly resisted by the early church fathers for their corrupt perversion of Christianity – Gnosticism. They invented a pernicious and mindboggling blend of distorted Judaism and distorted Christianity. This involved the invention of two gods to oversee two different peoples of god.

The later advocates of ancient Premillennialism who ran with and widely promoted it were Porphyry [or Porphyrius] of Tyre (232- 305) and Apollinarius of Laodicea, Asia Minor (died 382). These two were also condemned by the ancient orthodox fathers as heretics and blasphemers.

What set them apart from the orthodox Chiliasts was obvious not their opinion of the idea of a future millennial earth, no, it was their elevation of the nation Israel in a future millennium, their two-people-of-God-theory, their advocacy for the full restoration of all the old covenant feasts and festivals, a return of blood sin offerings in a future temple (whether real or memorial) and their support for the restarting of the old covenant priesthood on a future millennial earth.

While these are beliefs that are widely held within both Historic Premillennialism and Dispensational Premillennialism today, they are unknown to the early orthodox Church Chiliasts. Along with the reintroduction of all the bondage of corruption on a future earth (including sin, death and decay) and the rising up of Satan after 1000 to influence billions of millennial inhabitants against Christ and the glorified saints, this advocacy for the return of all the old covenant apparatus is probably the most unsavory aspect of modern Premil.

Notably: none of the ancient Chiliasts supported the idea of Israel rising again to a place of racial superiority in a future millennial kingdom. They all looked upon the Church as true Israel today. They rejected any idea of God blessing any aspect of the redundant Jewish ceremonial arrangement.

They resisted any advancement of the fanciful idea of any type of reintroduction of the old abolished covenant system, including the rebuilding of the Jewish temple and the performing of multiple additional sin offerings to atone for the sins of man for a thousand years in the future. Such a thought was anathema to them.
So why argue against dead people and dead theology with more false theology?
 
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The millennium is 1000 years and about 40 generations. By the 35th to 40th generation removed to the furthest corners of the earth, they will not have the same convictions and experiences of the first generation. It is not rocket science it is common sense after people have spread out like rabbits. The first generation could still have offspring at 700 years of age. It will be like pre Flood conditions, but without a sin nature like Adam's 7th generation experienced. Amil have flimsy excuses why this millennium is not set apart like a Sabbath Holy unto God.


They will all have lived under the rule of Christ and His saints and so it will be impossible for them to not be able to know the Lord and experience life under His rule, but that a vast many of them would choose to follow Satan, when he is released from his prison, rather than Christ only goes to show that wickedness can still reside in the heart of man, even without the aid of Satanic influence. It is just that under Christ, evil has been immensely suppressed.
 
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BobRyan

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I know, I used to believe it. But Rev 19 is totally destructive. There are no survivors..

Well remember 2 things
1. There are no chapter divisions in John's text
2. The saints are resurrected at the start of the millennium in Rev 20:5-6 at the "first resurrection"

And they are taken directly to heaven -- when that happens as 1 Thess 4:13-18 states when speaking of the fact that the "dead in Christ rise first".

In Rev 14 the second coming sequence has God showing up and reaping the harvest of the saints first (the rapture event of 1Thess 4:13-18) and then all the wicked are wiped out in the wine press of the wrath of God according to Rev 14... Rev 19 states it as "the rest are killed".

It fits perfectly. Saints taken to heaven in the rapture - and the wicked wiped out.
 
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BobRyan

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Now no one is arguing that there any semi-saved or semi-lost people or third group of people being permitted into the Kingdom brought to earth but this multitude who comes against the camp of God cannot have been among the righteous who will be granted entrance into this Kingdom. They cannot be any of the wicked slain, judged, and cast into the everlasting fire when He returns, but they will have to have arisen from somewhere, and a symbolic interpretation of Revelation 20 will not sufficiently answer this challenge because neither your cited passage nor Revelation 20 will allow for such since the context of both passages of scripture are presented in the literal sense.

What you are missing is the pattern in Revelation of presenting a short summary - then expanding on it.

The short summary in Rev 20 is that after the 1000 years are finished the wicked surround the camp of the saints and then are wiped out. The longer form is that the "second resurrection" happens after the 1000 years... "the rest of the dead did not come to life until AFTER the 1000 years" as John says. It is then that they surround the camp of the saints (the new Jerusalem) and are judged at the Great White throne judgment, then cast into the lake of fire.
 
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What you are missing is the pattern in Revelation of presenting a short summary - then expanding on it.

The short summary in Rev 20 is that after the 1000 years are finished the wicked surround the camp of the saints and then are wiped out. The longer form is that the "second resurrection" happens after the 1000 years... "the rest of the dead did not come to life until AFTER the 1000 years" as John says. It is then that they surround the camp of the saints (the new Jerusalem) and are judged at the Great White throne judgment, then cast into the lake of fire.


Are you saying that the walking dead are going to try to overthrow Christ and the saints? That IS far out.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Well remember 2 things
1. There are no chapter divisions in John's text
2. The saints are resurrected at the start of the millennium in Rev 20:5-6 at the "first resurrection"

And they are taken directly to heaven -- when that happens as 1 Thess 4:13-18 states when speaking of the fact that the "dead in Christ rise first".

In Rev 14 the second coming sequence has God showing up and reaping the harvest of the saints first (the rapture event of 1Thess 4:13-18) and then all the wicked are wiped out in the wine press of the wrath of God according to Rev 14... Rev 19 states it as "the rest are killed".

It fits perfectly. Saints taken to heaven in the rapture - and the wicked wiped out.

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in time.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in place.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in order.
Christ's resurrection is the "first" or foremost resurrection in importance.
 
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sovereigngrace

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They will all have lived under the rule of Christ and His saints and so it will be impossible for them to not be able to know the Lord and experience life under His rule, but that a vast many of them would choose to follow Satan, when he is released from his prison, rather than Christ only goes to show that wickedness can still reside in the heart of man, even without the aid of Satanic influence. It is just that under Christ, evil has been immensely suppressed.

The Premillennial millennium culminates in the greatest global uprising in history from the four corners of the earth as “the sand of the sea” against the “camp of the saints.”

So much for the age of Aquarius and the historic peace! I wonder how the saints that have experienced centuries of true heavenly peace and perfection would feel knowing they are going to be subjected to the Premil scenario of more sin, more death, more wicked, more rebellion, more war and more Satan. This has to be the greatest falling away in history. It is the biggest religious deception in history. It is the most pronounced religious circus in history. It makes Christ out to be deceived - believing He had mass allegiance when in fact he had a millennium full of phonies. His outreach to the nations is a complete bust. It makes His efforts out to be a failure. His attempt to reign in righteousness, glory and power is an unmitigated mess.

So much for your war-free millennium!!!

The feigned devotion that marks the vast bulk of the millennial inhabitants takes a thousand yrs to be uncovered; by that time the amount of phonies has swamped the millennial earth to a number as vast as the sand of the sea. This certainly is in stark contrast to the victorious millennial earth that most Premils portray in their writings, arguments and sermons.

Premils imagine a future millennial age on earth that is vastly different from our day and only slightly less-perfect than the new heavens and new earth. When the reality is in fact that it is little different from our present day.
 
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sovereigngrace

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No, they do not since they have nothing to do with anything that the Apostle John wrote about; they pertain to different events and subject matter altogether and it is you who are fighting with scripture by attempting to impose an interpretation upon them that they do not contextually support. If the usage of a fixed number in the cases of the passages you cited was meant to be symbolic, there should be an interpretation attached. There is none.

One is always going in circles with you. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture.

The facts

... which you avoided:

One and a thousand are also brought together in a metaphorical sense in Psalm 84:9-10 to represent a similar illustrative thought as that of Deuteronomy 32:30. Using a comparable idea, although applying it to a specific measure of time, we learn, “Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.”

Comparing ‘one’ to ‘a thousand’ is common in Scripture; however, it is not simply a concept that is narrowly restricted to the subject of time, or exact time at that. This figurative statement in essence asserts that a day in the Lord’s presence is more blessed than untold ordinary ones outside of such. It in no way indicates that one (twenty-four hour) day in God’s presence exactly represents one thousand days elsewhere, such a limit would be an unfair restriction upon the meaning intended. Such a literal interpretation is at clear variance with the undoubted general usage of the phrase in Scripture and the specific import of the reading under analysis.

The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 to denote the greatness of God’s providence, saying, “For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.”

Does Christ only own the cattle on one thousand hills or does he own them all? Of course there is no way that this passage suggests that Christ only owns the cattle on one thousand hills. Rather, He owns every beast on every hill, thus revealing His omnipotence. The statement reference the “thousand hills” is preceded y the introductory comment: “For every beast of the forest is mine.” This is simply presented in such a way as to express the unfathomable authority and power of the living God. It beautifully correlates with the truth expressed in 1 Corinthians 10:28, which states, “the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.”

The term “a thousand” is thus used to in some way express the nature and awesome power of Almighty God. The phrase is used to portray the Sovereignty of God and His supreme kingship over all creation. We must clearly acknowledge that the figure ‘a thousand’ is consistently and symbolically employed, throughout the Word of God, to denote an unfathomable amount or a vast period.

Even the figurative every-day statement ‘one in a thousand’ has emanated from the fountainhead of Scripture. It is found in Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 where Solomon laments, “one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found. Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.”

Solomon laments over the fact that he barely found any upright man in his travels. They were the exception rather than the rule. The thought here intended is that the man under consideration is of a particular choice character, being, as it where, the pick-of-the-bunch. The usage of the numbers one and a thousand is thus employed to represent a particular truth rather than specifically describing an accurate numerical equation.

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, “If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness.” The same two common numbers are used here in the form of a contrast to simply portray the picture of a special vessel. Again, it is not the numbers that are important but the idea they represent.

As we have already discovered in our studies, the same kind of function is repeatedly afforded to the use of the term ‘ten thousand’ as is ‘a thousand’ in Scripture. It is often used in the same context and in the same way as a symbol to represent an immense figure. Thus, the Song of Solomon 5:10 declares, “My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.”

Ten thousand is here used to, in some way, portray the deep-rooted emotions that a man feels towards his sweetheart. The usage of the number ‘ten thousand’ thus indicates the idea of the deep affection of the man rather than specifically describing an exact numerical computation.

The same idea is presented in 2 Samuel 18:2-3 where David is seen preparing for battle. He tells the people, “I will surely go forth with you myself also.” To which the people responded, “Thou shalt not go forth: for if we flee away, they will not care for us; neither if half of us die, will they care for us: but now thou art worth ten thousand of us: therefore now it is better that thou succour us out of the city.”

Jesus employs the number ten thousand as a general figure in Luke 14:31 to relate the necessity of wisdom, asking, “what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with TWENTY THOUSAND?”

The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, “I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.”

This passage is contrasting the infinite knowledge of God to the finite knowledge of God. This language is stating the enormous depth of God's understanding rather than limiting God to the capacity to only answer a thousand questions.

The same idea is intended in Isaiah 60:21-22, where the prophet instructs, in relation to the New Earth, “Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.”

This passage is expressed in such a manner to in some way describe the great standing, wealth and supernatural power that is found in them that are God’s. God magnifies them in such a manner that the world cannot remotely comprehend. The expressions thus indicate magnitude:

A little one = a thousand
A small one = a strong nation

Paul the Apostle uses the figure ‘ten thousand’ in 1 Corinthians 4:15 to impress a spiritual truth, saying, “For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.” Paul uses the figure ten thousand as a common round figure to represent a specific truth. What he was basically saying was ‘though ye have numerous instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers’

Paul uses the same principle in 1 Corinthians 14:19 to advocate wisdom in relation to the exercise of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, saying, “in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.” Paul here uses the large even figure ten thousand to impress an important truth. He instructs the Corinthians that it is better to speak a little in a tongue that is understood than to speak numerous words in an unknown tongue that are not understood.

The Lord also uses this same figure, in Matthew 18:23-27, to represent the idea of a vast amount, saying, “Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.”

Matthew Henry explains that ten thousand talents represents about 60 million denarii; a denarius of which was a day’s wages. The Lord therefore advances this parable to represent the vastness of our debt to God and our complete incapability of paying it ourselves. Matthew Henry succinctly says, “The debt of sin is so great, we are not able to pay it.”

Micah asks a question in Micah 6:7, which he then answers in verse 8:

Q.Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?”

A. “He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?”

Isaiah asks a similar question in Isaiah 1:11, only he substitutes the terms “thousands” and “ten thousands” with the word multitude, asking, To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.” Notwithstanding, both are expressing the same thought.

What the Lord required in these two instances, as he still does today, was NOT multiple physical external sacrifices but rather real true personal spiritual internal sacrifices. The terms “thousands” and “ten thousands” in Micah therefore figuratively represents ‘many’ or ‘numerous’ or, in agreement with Isaiah, ‘multiple’.

The number a thousand is also figuratively used in Amos 5:2-4 to prophetically describe the judgment which awaited the rebellious house of natural Israel. Again, it does not denote a literal figure but rather the type, degree and enormity of judgment that would befall Israel. Amos 5:1-4 says, “The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up. For thus saith the Lord GOD; The city that went out by a thousand shall leave AN HUNDRED, and that which went forth by AN HUNDRED shall leave TEN, to the house of Israel.”

Such numbers are occasionally used in Scripture to symbolize and emphasize the magnification or the minimising of specific Divine blessings or judgment s. The descending multiples of 1,000, 100 and 10 are employed here as symbols or figures to signify an impending reality, rather than representing any precise numerical prediction. Such popular numbers are purposely chosen to, in some way, impress the considerable degree of judgment approaching. The figure ‘a thousand’ here (like the other two numbers) is thus a common figure used to describe the serious impending wrath.

The reverse idea is also employed in ascending scale to describe spiritual principles / ideas and Divine truth throughout Scripture. This is seen in the round figures of 1,000, 10,000 and 144,000. They are used as common and complete numbers and carry an undoubted symbolic usage.

Finally, we see the glorious statement in Jude 1:14-15, which speaks of that glorious all-consummating final future Advent, saying, “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Here, we can determine NO specific number, only acknowledge that the term describes untold myriads of God’s blessed saints.
 
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Timtofly

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I know, I used to believe it. But Rev 19 is totally destructive. There are no survivors. It totally negates a chronological approach. It totally correlates with 2 Peter 3 and every other climactic passage.
It negates a post trib coming for the church as well. Christ is not coming to save any one, but kill all alive on earth. Revelation 19 is not a rapture nor resurrection of the church. Neither is Revelation 20 a resurrection of the church. Revelation 19 is a total climactic destruction of all of Satan's followers. They are the only one's alive after 3.5 years. I agree, NO SURVIVORS!!!

Still does not refute a Sabbath Millennium. None of Adam's living descendants are left living. ALL ARE DEAD. It is the end of Adam's punishment. No more generation of sinners will be born. They are dead in Christ or dead in their sins. No one is alive on earth. Revelation 20 is all about a Resurrection. The first Resurrection mentioned in Revelation. Those dead in their sins are not resurrected until the GWT. Who does get resurrected in Revelation 20 without any private interpretation, but plain Scriptural reading compression? Any 5th grader can read who is resurrected.
 
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sovereigngrace

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You hold to that belief without having provided from the text itself that the book of Revelation is not in chronological order and there is nothing therein to suggest it to be a recap of anything as it, as made clear by its introductory verse (Rev. 1:1) a prophetic book of things to come. The only recap we encounter is in the first five verses of Revelation chapter 12 but that is done in order for us to better understand what is to take place in the future. And what within any of those chapters suggest them to be a parallel of anything? Granted that there are chapters such 4, 12, 13, 14, and 17 that no doubt contain a symbolic context, but the rest, for the most part, are presented as being literal.

What the book of Revelation appears to do after the ending of the eleventh chapter is show us what must take place before the announced judgment..

That is refuted on numerous parts.

I believe that Revelation 1-22 consists of a number of figurative prophetic parallels (most believe seven in total) revealing the overall battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. It relates, like every other New Testament book, to the period running between the first and Second Advents. Significantly, the conclusion of each parallel terminates with a record of the glorious Second Advent, which includes the rescue of His saint and the final destruction of the wicked.

Parallels are simply different camera views of the same corresponding intra-Advent period which look at different aspects of the great battle between darkness and light.

That is an absurd request because Revelation 12 is talking about the casting down of Satan, which occurred after the binding of Satan. The focus there is Satan's banishment from heaven due to Christ having paid the penalty for sin. I have already addressed this and you have already avoided this. This is testimony to the impotence of your position. You avoid because you have no corroboration and you cannot deal with the biblical facts presented before you. Revelation 20 is where the Holy Spirit describes the binding of Satan in order for the Gospel to advance to the Gentiles. Notwithstanding, Revelation 12 and Revelation 20 correlate in showing the defeat of the devil 2000 years ago. Premillennialism is waiting for the defeat of the devil. It is unscriptural and contradicts the book of Revelation.

Revelation is full of recaps. While they focus in on the same intra-Advent period they focus different aspects of the overthrow of the kingdom of darkness. Revelation is written for the purpose of revealing the character and standing of Christ, His power and glory, following His victorious earthly ministry. It reveals who Christ is, His current standing, what His plan is, and it also ministers unto those who are going through tribulation.

Revelation is designed to enlighten God’s people, stir their hearts and increase their faith.

John basically goes behind the scenes into the spiritual realm and articulates in symbolic form the enormity of the great conflict between light and darkness. In the book of Revelation, we get a perceptive insight into the invisible realm.

The ESV Study Bible states: “Revelation unveils the unseen spiritual war in which the church is engaged: the cosmic conflict between God and his Christ on the one hand, and Satan and his evil allies (both demonic and human) on the other. In this conflict, Jesus the Lamb has already won the decisive victory through his sacrificial death, but his church continues to be assaulted by the dragon, in its death-throes, through persecution, false teaching, and the allure of material affluence and cultural approval. By revealing the spiritual realities lying behind the church’s trials and temptations during the time between Christ’s first and second comings, and by dramatically affirming the certainty of Christ’s triumph in the new heaven and earth, the visions granted to John both warn the church and fortify it to endure suffering and to stay pure from the defiling enticements of the present world order.”

Those who have eyes to see will get the thrust of the book! I didn’t say that you would get every minute detail. But you should get the overall message of the apocalypse.

What we are looking at is a spiritual revelation of our Savior revealed to us in symbolic form. We get a general overview of the story. We then have an expansion of particular aspects of that story. Scripture often does that.

CYCLE 1

Seven Churches (Ch 2-3)

CYCLE 2

Seven Seals (Ch 6-8:1)

CYCLE 3

Seven Trumpets (Ch 8-11)

CYCLE 4 (Ch 12-14)

The conflict between kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness.

CYCLE 5

Seven Vials (Ch 15-16)

CYCLE 6

Babylon (Ch 17-19)

CYCLE 7

The spiritual binding of Satan from the cross. The advance of the Gospel to the nations. The victorious reign of the saints in heaven. The ushering in of the New Heaven and the New Earth (Ch 20-22:1-5).

Apparently John thinks there is room for a future millennium, Satan's imprisonment in the bottomless pit during that time, and a brief final season for him to be released for the purpose of testing the people on the earth in order to reveal what is truly in their hearts. If he didn't, we would know anything about it.

He describes the intra-Advent period. Your flawed chronological hyper-literalist approach is forbidden by numerous Scripture. The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Repeated Scripture shows that now is the only day of salvation. After showing us the destruction of this earth, the works that are in it, the heavens, the elements when Jesus comes, and after describing the longsuffering of God in the days of Noah before the destruction of all the wicked, Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). See also Romans 2:4. He was reaffirming that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming. A sign of the end is that the Gospel must “be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). The second coming brings the curtain down on the great commission. Once the ark door closes it is too late (Matthew 25:10-13 & Matt 28:19-20).

The age to come has no room for "mortals" (Luke 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and Revelation 21-22) or the unregenerate (Psalms 37:9-11, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Corinthians 6:9, I Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

John 6:39-44, 54, John 11:21-27, John 12:48, Ephesians 1:10 and Revelation 10:5-7 would seem to suggest that time reaches its fullness at the climactic return of Christ. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Luke 20:34-36, Acts 3:19-21, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 ,1 Peter 1:3-5 and Revelation 21:1-5) all show that the end of the bondage of corrupt occurs when Jesus comes. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

1 Corinthians 13:12, Ephesians 4:13 and Revelation 10:5-7 show that the curtain coming down on the mystery of God, thus confirming we are at the end of time and entering into eternity when all will finally be revealed. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Repeated Scripture locates the replacement of the current heavens and earth with the new heavens and earth and incorruption at the second coming. Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15 shows us that this occurs at the second coming. This is indeed the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection. It is the beginning of incorruption. It is the beginning of a new arrangement.

It seems like whatever angle you examine the second coming it appears to be climactic, final and glorious.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The Apostle John puts this regenerating fire at the end of the thousand year intermission. If the new heaven and new earth are supposed to be created when Christ returns, then why does John tell us that there is going to be a thousand year intermission before then, and answering that challenge with a symbolic interpretation that Revelation 20 does not support is not going to bring contextual harmonization between the cited passages and the events of Revelation 20.

Exactly. This long indefinite period is followed by Satan's season before the coming of Christ. Then we have the GWT judgment. Then we are into eternity. Repeated Scripture proves this, and I suspect you know that.

John Metcalfe rightly says in relation to the Holy Spirit’s use of the phrase “a thousand” in the Old Testament, in a booklet ‘Premillennialism Exposed’, “One reads of a thousand hills, a thousand vines, a thousand Philistines, a thousand children of Bigvai, a thousand Ammonites, a thousand spears, a thousand camels, a thousand horses, a thousand chariots, a thousand judges, a thousand bullocks, a thousand rams, but never of a thousand years reign, no, not from Genesis to Malachi.”

And continues, “One can discover a thousand shields for a thousand Israelites, a thousand cubits and a thousand footmen to traverse them, a thousand talents and a thousand oxen to carry them, a thousand silver pieces and a thousand Edomites to covet them, a thousand baths and a thousand men to bathe in them, but what no one can find, no, not one of a thousand, is a thousand years reign at the end of time with the second coming of Christ preceding this millennial invention.”

Number of passages in the Bible mentioning a thousand year reign = 1
Number of passages in the Bible mentioning a thousand year on this earth = 0
Number of passages in the Bible mentioning a thousand year reign of the natural Jews on this earth = 0

Notably, there is no other chapter in Scripture where there has been so much diversity over the years, Revelation 20 should therefore be made to fit into the rest of the New Testament (the fuller revelation), rather than the other way round. Frankly, disprove the Premil theory on this chapter and the whole system quickly disintegrates.

The Premillennialist makes much about a literal 1,000-year reign, yet, the terms “one thousand” and “a thousand” (singular) aren’t found anywhere in the original Greek rendering of Revelation 20. Rather, we find the Greek plural word chilia repeated in all the different references there. This word [5507] carries an indefinite sense of thousand and is found six times in Revelation 20 and twice in 2 Peter 3. The word chilia is a “nominative and accusative plural neuter” of chilioi, which is the masculine form of this adjective. Both “-a” and “-oi” are plural endings in the Greek language. Greek is an inflected language in which adjectives have to match the nouns they modify in gender and number. In the case before us, the word chilia precedes the plural noun “years,” thus the adjective “thousand” has to be plural because its meaning is inherently plural.

Chillias [5505] is singular
Chillia [5507] is plural

To insist on a literal rendering, this word needs prefixed by a number to denote exact value. However, in the case of 2 Peter 3 and Revelation 20 no number precedes the word chilia thus leaving it indefinite. There are no grounds therefore to insist it represents a literal “one thousand” and no proof that we are looking at one thousand years. It simply doesn’t state such. Notwithstanding, there is a noun meaning "a thousand,” in the sense of a (singular) group of 1000: “chilias.” This is used, in the plural, for phrases in Scripture like “the number of the men were five thousand.”

It seems quite strange for Premillennialism to build such a mammoth theological edifice on such a flimsy foundation. We must question the wisdom of insisting on a singular ‘one thousand years’ when it is not anywhere in the text or found in the original. It would appear, the indefinite nature of this plural word would give more force to the Amillennial position than the Premillennial one.

Revelation 20:2-7 mentions chília étee – or thousand years – six times. Much debate has surrounded round whether this passage indicates a literal thousand years, or is an indefinite period, in keeping with the symbolic nature of the Apocalypse. Most of the old Roman Catholic and Protestant theologians believed it represented an indefinite or symbolic time-period. Notwithstanding, many of the “modern theologians” have taken a hyper-literalist line on the issue because many of the Bible versions simply say “a thousand years.” My understanding, using my Greek Concordance, is that it means chília (plural) étee (plural) or “thousand years.”

It most certainly is in Matthew 25. What is missing in Matthew 25 is the catching away. If the catching away and the return of Christ to the earth are supposed to be the same event, then how can we possibly have a division between the sheep and the goats. If the sheep are caught away from the earth, then what is there to divide the goats from?

The separation occurs after the judgment. Please read the text before articulating your mistaken view. The whole thrust of this reading surrounds a climactic end to the world. Like the rest of Scripture, it records the complete rescue of the saints in the “marriage of the lamb” and the complete destruction of the wicked when the fowls consume the entire wicked left behind. The passage makes no allowance for goats-survivors in this great destruction passage or mortals squeezing into a supposed future millennium. This reading seems to fit in with the scriptural pattern of an all-consummating Coming - all the wicked being consumed.

The second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ will be a unique day in the annals of human history and unprecedented in its all-consummating character. Obviously, no other day has ever seen the end of the world and the final complete defeat of every last enemy of righteousness, truth and Almighty God. Neither has any other day seen the destruction of all wickedness by way of fire before. Notwithstanding, the Lord draws our specific attention to two notable days in human history to compare it with, and to fully illustrate the character and finality of this all-consummating day. These two particular days are familiar to most and are found in Holy Writ (both in the Old Testament), and give us an unparalleled insight into the nature, extent and detail of judgment on that impending last day. While, evidently there is no previous individual bygone historic example of a total global annihilation of the wicked by fire, these two individual days, when joined together, vividly portray what will occur on the final day of time. These two former days being (1) the day that Noah entered into the ark and (2) the day that Lot was rescued out of Sodom.

I am not the one who used the word "populate". You did. Now we can both agree that the wicked will not be allowed to "populate" the earth, but you did not exclude the righteous from populating the earth, and while no one is claiming that the glorified and resurrected saints are doing the populating, you don't seem to know what populate actually means.

I am not inventing some imaginary third group because any children produced by surviving mortals who have not aligned themselves with the forces of darkness are also going to end up on either choosing righteousness or wickedness as well and their choices are revealed at the end of the millennial reign.

Stop avoiding! There are only 2 peoples on planet earth thorough time - saved and lost. The saved are rescued when Jesus comes and the lost are destroyed. You invent some imaginary third group that is unknown to Holy Writ that are too wicked to be rescued and to righteous to be destroyed. The reality is they do not exist. That is a figment of your imagination.

In the millennial earth, Christ and the saints are ruling and reigning but in order for them to rule and reign, there have to be subjects for them to rule over.
Satan during that duration is bound in the abyss and unable to cause evil of any kind.
But at the end of that duration, Satan is released and in that season, it is revealed where all the subjects under Christ truly stand and those who attempt to overthrow Christ are quickly annihilated by fire out of Heaven.

In the New Heaven and New Earth, God the Father comes to dwell with Christ among men in the New Jerusalem, whereas in the thousand year reign, the New Jerusalem is not yet present.
Satan has been forever cast into the Lake of Fire whereas in the thousand year reign, he was only temporarily imprisoned.
Death is also nowhere to be found on the new earth whereas in the thousand reign, not all the dead have been brought back to life.

This reinforces what I have always believed: your kingdom is a carnal sinful debacle that sees the wicked overrun your alleged age (as the sand of the sea) of bliss and splendour. The Premil new earth has Christ reigning as a tyrannical dictator forcing the nations to believe on Him and go to Jerusalem to watch the amazing spectacle of slaughtering countless innocent animals to cover men's sins in a pointless debacle for fear of being walloped with an iron rod. I mean: honestly??? So much for the peace they portray. Their millennial earth is a dangerous place for lambs, goats and bulls who are particular targeted for wide-scale slaughter. The reality is: the Millennium is saturated in the deceived & deception. I am so glad this age will NEVER happen.

Deception is rampant in the Premil millennium because there are countless people that reject Christ in their heart and are forced to give feigned worship in Jerusalem to Christ or they will be swiped with His rod of iron? The Premil millennium is a sham.

I didn't write the chapter, the Apostle John did and under divine direction.

... and it tells us what every other Scripture tells us.
 
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Timtofly

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They will all have lived under the rule of Christ and His saints and so it will be impossible for them to not be able to know the Lord and experience life under His rule, but that a vast many of them would choose to follow Satan, when he is released from his prison, rather than Christ only goes to show that wickedness can still reside in the heart of man, even without the aid of Satanic influence. It is just that under Christ, evil has been immensely suppressed.
From the 6th day humans to now we have had to choose between God and Satan.

The millennium will not be any different when it comes to choice. They will not have a sin nature, but they will still have a free choice to reject God by sight. It will not be by unbelief.
 
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Timtofly

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The Premillennial millennium culminates in the greatest global uprising in history from the four corners of the earth as “the sand of the sea” against the “camp of the saints.”

So much for the age of Aquarius and the historic peace! I wonder how the saints that have experienced centuries of true heavenly peace and perfection would feel knowing they are going to be subjected to the Premil scenario of more sin, more death, more wicked, more rebellion, more war and more Satan. This has to be the greatest falling away in history. It is the biggest religious deception in history. It is the most pronounced religious circus in history. It makes Christ out to be deceived - believing He had mass allegiance when in fact he had a millennium full of phonies. His outreach to the nations is a complete bust. It makes His efforts out to be a failure. His attempt to reign in righteousness, glory and power is an unmitigated mess.

So much for your war-free millennium!!!

The feigned devotion that marks the vast bulk of the millennial inhabitants takes a thousand yrs to be uncovered; by that time the amount of phonies has swamped the millennial earth to a number as vast as the sand of the sea. This certainly is in stark contrast to the victorious millennial earth that most Premils portray in their writings, arguments and sermons.

Premils imagine a future millennial age on earth that is vastly different from our day and only slightly less-perfect than the new heavens and new earth. When the reality is in fact that it is little different from our present day.
This is all your personal opinion though. You have no more insight in this period than any other believer. Stop turning this time set apart as Holy unto God, with your own version of wickedness. It does not help your own case by making this current corruption we call life out to be a Sunday school picnic. Creating your own dramatic millennium out side of Scriptural proof is what you keep accusing our post on. It is not working, obviously.
 
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One is always going in circles with you. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture. The facts are presented, you then avoid. You make a false statement that you were not able to support with Scripture.

The facts

... which you avoided:

One and a thousand are also brought together in a metaphorical sense in Psalm 84:9-10 to represent a similar illustrative thought as that of Deuteronomy 32:30. Using a comparable idea, although applying it to a specific measure of time, we learn, “Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.”

Comparing ‘one’ to ‘a thousand’ is common in Scripture; however, it is not simply a concept that is narrowly restricted to the subject of time, or exact time at that. This figurative statement in essence asserts that a day in the Lord’s presence is more blessed than untold ordinary ones outside of such. It in no way indicates that one (twenty-four hour) day in God’s presence exactly represents one thousand days elsewhere, such a limit would be an unfair restriction upon the meaning intended. Such a literal interpretation is at clear variance with the undoubted general usage of the phrase in Scripture and the specific import of the reading under analysis.

The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 to denote the greatness of God’s providence, saying, “For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.”

Does Christ only own the cattle on one thousand hills or does he own them all? Of course there is no way that this passage suggests that Christ only owns the cattle on one thousand hills. Rather, He owns every beast on every hill, thus revealing His omnipotence. The statement reference the “thousand hills” is preceded y the introductory comment: “For every beast of the forest is mine.” This is simply presented in such a way as to express the unfathomable authority and power of the living God. It beautifully correlates with the truth expressed in 1 Corinthians 10:28, which states, “the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.”

The term “a thousand” is thus used to in some way express the nature and awesome power of Almighty God. The phrase is used to portray the Sovereignty of God and His supreme kingship over all creation. We must clearly acknowledge that the figure ‘a thousand’ is consistently and symbolically employed, throughout the Word of God, to denote an unfathomable amount or a vast period.

Even the figurative every-day statement ‘one in a thousand’ has emanated from the fountainhead of Scripture. It is found in Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 where Solomon laments, “one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found. Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.”

Solomon laments over the fact that he barely found any upright man in his travels. They were the exception rather than the rule. The thought here intended is that the man under consideration is of a particular choice character, being, as it where, the pick-of-the-bunch. The usage of the numbers one and a thousand is thus employed to represent a particular truth rather than specifically describing an accurate numerical equation.

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, “If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness.” The same two common numbers are used here in the form of a contrast to simply portray the picture of a special vessel. Again, it is not the numbers that are important but the idea they represent.

As we have already discovered in our studies, the same kind of function is repeatedly afforded to the use of the term ‘ten thousand’ as is ‘a thousand’ in Scripture. It is often used in the same context and in the same way as a symbol to represent an immense figure. Thus, the Song of Solomon 5:10 declares, “My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.”

Ten thousand is here used to, in some way, portray the deep-rooted emotions that a man feels towards his sweetheart. The usage of the number ‘ten thousand’ thus indicates the idea of the deep affection of the man rather than specifically describing an exact numerical computation.

The same idea is presented in 2 Samuel 18:2-3 where David is seen preparing for battle. He tells the people, “I will surely go forth with you myself also.” To which the people responded, “Thou shalt not go forth: for if we flee away, they will not care for us; neither if half of us die, will they care for us: but now thou art worth ten thousand of us: therefore now it is better that thou succour us out of the city.”

Jesus employs the number ten thousand as a general figure in Luke 14:31 to relate the necessity of wisdom, asking, “what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with TWENTY THOUSAND?”

The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, “I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.”

This passage is contrasting the infinite knowledge of God to the finite knowledge of God. This language is stating the enormous depth of God's understanding rather than limiting God to the capacity to only answer a thousand questions.

The same idea is intended in Isaiah 60:21-22, where the prophet instructs, in relation to the New Earth, “Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.”

This passage is expressed in such a manner to in some way describe the great standing, wealth and supernatural power that is found in them that are God’s. God magnifies them in such a manner that the world cannot remotely comprehend. The expressions thus indicate magnitude:

A little one = a thousand
A small one = a strong nation

Paul the Apostle uses the figure ‘ten thousand’ in 1 Corinthians 4:15 to impress a spiritual truth, saying, “For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.” Paul uses the figure ten thousand as a common round figure to represent a specific truth. What he was basically saying was ‘though ye have numerous instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers’

Paul uses the same principle in 1 Corinthians 14:19 to advocate wisdom in relation to the exercise of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, saying, “in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.” Paul here uses the large even figure ten thousand to impress an important truth. He instructs the Corinthians that it is better to speak a little in a tongue that is understood than to speak numerous words in an unknown tongue that are not understood.

The Lord also uses this same figure, in Matthew 18:23-27, to represent the idea of a vast amount, saying, “Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.”

Matthew Henry explains that ten thousand talents represents about 60 million denarii; a denarius of which was a day’s wages. The Lord therefore advances this parable to represent the vastness of our debt to God and our complete incapability of paying it ourselves. Matthew Henry succinctly says, “The debt of sin is so great, we are not able to pay it.”

Micah asks a question in Micah 6:7, which he then answers in verse 8:

Q.Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?”

A. “He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?”

Isaiah asks a similar question in Isaiah 1:11, only he substitutes the terms “thousands” and “ten thousands” with the word multitude, asking, To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.” Notwithstanding, both are expressing the same thought.

What the Lord required in these two instances, as he still does today, was NOT multiple physical external sacrifices but rather real true personal spiritual internal sacrifices. The terms “thousands” and “ten thousands” in Micah therefore figuratively represents ‘many’ or ‘numerous’ or, in agreement with Isaiah, ‘multiple’.

The number a thousand is also figuratively used in Amos 5:2-4 to prophetically describe the judgment which awaited the rebellious house of natural Israel. Again, it does not denote a literal figure but rather the type, degree and enormity of judgment that would befall Israel. Amos 5:1-4 says, “The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up. For thus saith the Lord GOD; The city that went out by a thousand shall leave AN HUNDRED, and that which went forth by AN HUNDRED shall leave TEN, to the house of Israel.”

Such numbers are occasionally used in Scripture to symbolize and emphasize the magnification or the minimising of specific Divine blessings or judgment s. The descending multiples of 1,000, 100 and 10 are employed here as symbols or figures to signify an impending reality, rather than representing any precise numerical prediction. Such popular numbers are purposely chosen to, in some way, impress the considerable degree of judgment approaching. The figure ‘a thousand’ here (like the other two numbers) is thus a common figure used to describe the serious impending wrath.

The reverse idea is also employed in ascending scale to describe spiritual principles / ideas and Divine truth throughout Scripture. This is seen in the round figures of 1,000, 10,000 and 144,000. They are used as common and complete numbers and carry an undoubted symbolic usage.

Finally, we see the glorious statement in Jude 1:14-15, which speaks of that glorious all-consummating final future Advent, saying, “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Here, we can determine NO specific number, only acknowledge that the term describes untold myriads of God’s blessed saints.
Revelation 20 is representative of a time set apart for God. Sorry that your denial of this time does not fit God's plan of creation. I guess God can apologize some day that your theology never changed His plan from the foundation of the world. John gave the church Revelation 20, before some bright theologian came up with an escape plan to avoid Revelation 20, and deny how it was written.
 
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