Covenant and New Covenant theology

mkgal1 said:

But wait.....are you implying that the only thing from the Mosaic Covenant that is obsolete is the Priesthood? Are you suggesting that it's a requirement to "keep the Sabbath holy"?

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I am pointing out what the Scriptures say regarding the Covenant that was changed.

I am pointing out the Christ's own definition of His own New Covenant.

I am pointing out the Covenant God made with Levi that was "ADDED" because of transgressions. I'm pointing out what Paul means when he says "works of the Law" for justification.

I would never presume to tell anyone how to live their lives. Only to discuss and examine the Holy scriptures to discern what doctrines we have learned that are from God and which are from religious philosophies of men.

Are God's Children still under the requirement to not kill or steal from others? Are they not still required to Love God with all their hearts?

Are they still required to take a lamb to the Levite Priest for atonement of sins?

These would be questions a man, purchased by the Blood of Christ, should ask and know. As Paul said "let each man be fully convinced in their own mind".

mkgal1 said:

But wait.....are you implying that the only thing from the Mosaic Covenant that is obsolete is the Priesthood? Are you suggesting that it's a requirement to "keep the Sabbath holy"? Because Paul also contrasts the Law written on stone with the law written on hearts:

2 Corinthians 3:3 ~ You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.​

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How would a man show they are a letter from Christ? The result of the Bible's teaching?

Would HIS People not show His Character in their hearts, actions and words?

Would Zacharias not fit this definition of God's Laws written on his heart? And Simeon, and Cornelius. In Fact, is there one example of Faithful men in the Holy Scriptures that does not show that they are the Letter of Christ, not written with ink, but by the Spirit of the Living God, written in their hearts? Was Noah one of these examples?

I really appreciate this discussion and your questions. Let me ask one of you.

In Matt. 7:22, regarding these folks who gave Jesus the credit for all their actions, who helped many in HIS name, dedicated their life to teaching in Jesus name, were they a Letter from Christ? And if you say no, then how come they were not?

BABerean2 said:

Paul reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant in Galatians 3:16-29.
Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

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God made a temporary covenant with Levi. God separated him for the inheritance of Israel, separated him from all the peoples in the land and gave Him a Priesthood Covenant that Abraham did not have. He did this in Mt. Sinai.

Just listen to HIS Promise.

Jer. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

And again.

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

2 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. (Which Covenant they broke)

God didn't "ADD" the LAW of atonement by Covenant with Levi until they transgressed on Mt. Sinai. Israel broke God's Commandments, God Separated Levi to provide for their atonement, and gave them again the tablets of the Law they broke.

Ex. 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Only this time HE ADDED a Law of atonement that Abraham didn't have, "Till the Seed should come".

The Law Paul is speaking to was "ADDED to something, because of Transgressions of Something. This "something" are the Laws, Commandments and Statutes God gave Abraham, and then to Abraham's children, and when they broke the Laws written on these tables of stone, God replaced them with the exact same Laws. Only HE ADDED the Law of atonement given to the Levites on Israel's behalf.

In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul discusses two covenants, and compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".
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This Covenant of Bondage, is the Covenant God made with Levi. This covenant required that a man who sinned could not be justified without first finding a Levite Priest who would then perform sacrificial "works" for the forgiveness of sins. This Covenant also made it a sin for anyone other than a Levite to even touch the Book of the Law. To hear the Word's of God a man was forced to go find a Levite Priest and take his word for what was written. He was held bondage to the teaching and instructions of a Levite Priest, there was no other way to hear the Word's of God.

Abraham was under no such requirement. Melchizedek brought to him "bread and wine", Abraham was blessed because he chose to obey. His Faith in God made him whole.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Caleb was an example of Abraham's faith. But Levi turned away from God, as it is written.

Mal. 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

This is the Covenant of Bondage that became obsolete. Not the Laws, Commandments, and Statutes this Law was "ADDED" too.

I know modern religions don't teach this, just as the mainstream preachers of Paul's time didn't teach this. But Paul did.

Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? (Levitical Priesthood) Nay: but by the law of faith. (God's Definition of Righteousness, if we believe Him)

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified (forgiven) by (the law of) faith without the deeds of the law. (of works)

Guojing said:

In the first place, I didn’t quote Paul in that answer to your question.

I quoted peter telling Israel in acts 3:19-21, when their sins will finally be remitted.

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I was responding to your posted scripture from Paul.

Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

As for Acts 3, Peter is simply furthering the Gospel that has been taught since the world began.

18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Studyman said:

God made a temporary covenant with Levi. God separated him for the inheritance of Israel, separated him from all the peoples in the land and gave Him a Priesthood Covenant that Abraham did not have. He did this in Mt. Sinai.

Just listen to HIS Promise.

Jer. 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

And again.

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

2 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. (Which Covenant they broke)

God didn't "ADD" the LAW of atonement by Covenant with Levi until they transgressed on Mt. Sinai. Israel broke God's Commandments, God Separated Levi to provide for their atonement, and gave them again the tablets of the Law they broke.

Ex. 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Only this time HE ADDED a Law of atonement that Abraham didn't have, "Till the Seed should come".

The Law Paul is speaking to was "ADDED to something, because of Transgressions of Something. This "something" are the Laws, Commandments and Statutes God gave Abraham, and then to Abraham's children, and when they broke the Laws written on these tables of stone, God replaced them with the exact same Laws. Only HE ADDED the Law of atonement given to the Levites on Israel's behalf.



This Covenant of Bondage, is the Covenant God made with Levi. This covenant required that a man who sinned could not be justified without first finding a Levite Priest who would then perform sacrificial "works" for the forgiveness of sins. This Covenant also made it a sin for anyone other than a Levite to even touch the Book of the Law. To hear the Word's of God a man was forced to go find a Levite Priest and take his word for what was written. He was held bondage to the teaching and instructions of a Levite Priest, there was no other way to hear the Word's of God.

Abraham was under no such requirement. Melchizedek brought to him "bread and wine", Abraham was blessed because he chose to obey. His Faith in God made him whole.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Caleb was an example of Abraham's faith. But Levi turned away from God, as it is written.

Mal. 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

This is the Covenant of Bondage that became obsolete. Not the Laws, Commandments, and Statutes this Law was "ADDED" too.

I know modern religions don't teach this, just as the mainstream preachers of Paul's time didn't teach this. But Paul did.

Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? (Levitical Priesthood) Nay: but by the law of faith. (God's Definition of Righteousness, if we believe Him)

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified (forgiven) by (the law of) faith without the deeds of the law. (of works)

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Was the Sinai Covenant made only with the Levites, or was it with the whole nation of Israel?


Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


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BABerean2 said:

Was the Sinai Covenant made only with the Levites, or was it with the whole nation of Israel?

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

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Didn't God give Israel these same Laws before the Golden Calf? And didn't God "ADD" A Priesthood Law specifically to atone for the transgression of these Laws after Israel broke them?

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
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Why were there Israelite's alive this day after they made and worshiped the Golden calf? Didn't God tell Moses to get out of the way so HE could consume them and made a great nation out of Moses?

EX. 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

Please, in the interest of Biblical Truth, please answer this question. "Why were there still people alive on this day in Duet. 5?"

What Covenant, that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph didn't have, made it possible for there to be Israelite's alive after creating a golden calf and calling it God?

Studyman said:

Didn't God give Israel these same Laws before the Golden Calf?

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Your answer is found in Exodus 34:28.

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Studyman said:

I am pointing out the Covenant God made with Levi that was "ADDED" because of transgressions. I'm pointing out what Paul means when he says "works of the Law" for justification.

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. Moses was the mediator that Jesus was replacing (not Levi). The Levitical priesthood was part of the Mosaic Covenant. From what I've read, Moses was from the Levitical tribe.

Quoting Steve Wellum (author of Progressive Covenantalism):

Studyman said:

This is the Covenant of Bondage that became obsolete. Not the Laws, Commandments, and Statutes this Law was "ADDED" too

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This quote right here, IMO, is loaded with information that needs to be explained more.

What are the implications of this?

What do you specifically mean by "Laws, Commandments, and Statutes this Law was "ADDED" to"?

BABerean2 said:

Your answer is found in Exodus 34:28.

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No, it doesn't, and you know it. But i have grown accustomed to such behavior.

Thanks for the replies anyway.

Studyman said:

Why were there Israelite's alive this day after they made and worshiped the Golden calf? Didn't God tell Moses to get out of the way so HE could consume them and made a great nation out of Moses?

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.....and Moses is a type of Christ here. He mediated between God and the Israelites.

Spurgeon described the role of covenant mediators here:

"The Mediator—The Interpreter by C. H. Spurgeon" The Mediator—The Interpreter by C. H. Spurgeon

mkgal1 said:

. Moses was the mediator that Jesus was replacing (not Levi).

Matthew 23:2 ~ The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
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While it is True Moses was a Levite, and Moses is who God chose to further HIS Gospel onto the Children of Israel, But God chose Aaron and His Sons to minister unto Him in the Priest's office.

Ex. 28:1 And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons.

God said HIS Covenant was with Levi, not Moses. It wasn't Moses or his sons who would administer God's Laws and Provide for the atonement of His People. It was Aaron and his sons which became the Priests of God.

Jesus would replace the Priests and their duties, not Moses or the Prophets. As HE said.

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

But of Levi He said;

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

The Levitical priesthood was part of the Mosaic Covenant.

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That is a popular religious philosophy. But it doesn't seem that the Holy scriptures agree.

Duet. 10:8 At that time the LORD separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day.

9 Wherefore Levi hath no part nor inheritance with his brethren; the LORD is his inheritance, according as the LORD thy God promised him.

It seems God furthered His Covenant with Abraham on to Israel.

Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.

24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

Ex. 6:6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.


And Israel broke the Covenant, something Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not do. So God Separated Levi from all the people of the world, separated him from the inheritance promised in the Covenant of Abraham, and made a Covenant with him on Israel's behalf, to provide for the administration of God's Laws, and for the Atonement of their sins until the Seed, or Prophet Moses spoke of should come.

I don't believe the Levitical Priesthood was "part" on the mosaic Covenant, I believe the Holy Scriptures teaches it "WAS" the Mosaic Covenant.

Heb. 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

In Hebrews 7-10, can you find any reference to "ANY" other Law than the Levitical Priesthood?

God definition of Righteousness, Clean and Holy has always been the same.

"If you do well, shall you not be accepted"?

It seems according to Scriptures, the Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" to the Covenant God made with Abraham and furthered on to his children, which included God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments which were not written down in the Examples God had written for our admonition until Exodus.

mkgal1 said:

.....and Moses is a type of Christ here. He mediated between God and the Israelites.

Spurgeon described the role of covenant mediators here:

"The Mediator—The Interpreter by C. H. Spurgeon" The Mediator—The Interpreter by C. H. Spurgeon

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Well I will not accept the religious philosophies of men, especially given the volumes of Warnings about this very thing. I have Faith in the Word's of God to guide me. No one has ever been led astray by hearing, and then believing "Every" Word of God. The words of religious men? they have led people astray for centuries.

Having said that, It is true that Moses asked for God to have mercy on those men who despised His Commandments. And God gave Him a Commandment to Separate Levi, namely, Aaron and his sons, and give them specific instructions on how to minister before Him.

Ex. 25:40 And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.

Heb. 8 also confirms this Covenant with Levi.

1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

He is talking about the Priesthood here, the Levitical Priesthood. Not the 10 commandments, not the Christ's Feasts. But the New High Priest.

So who are the them He made the "First" Covenant with regarding Israel?

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his (God's) mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

So what did the Christ do?

8 For finding fault with them, (Levite Priests who led men astray) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Can you see why I have this understanding?

mkgal1 said:

This quote right here, IMO, is loaded with information that needs to be explained more.

What are the implications of this?

What do you specifically mean by "Laws, Commandments, and Statutes this Law was "ADDED" to"?

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In Galatians 3, Paul is confronting Jews who are trying to promote "works of the Law" to become righteous. Paul is saying that these "works" were "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham. They were "ADDED" to something, because of "Transgressions" of something. And they were "ADDED" until the SEED should come.

We know Abraham had God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments. We know Noah did as well. There was some numeration of them, like brotherly love, not looking on the nakedness of your father, not committing adultery, don't kill, Noah know the difference between clean animals, and unclean, but God didn't write His Laws, Commandments and Statutes down for us until the Exodus in the Holy Scriptures He had written for our admonition.

I believe Abraham even knew of Passover.

Gen. 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. (this would be the bread of life would it not)

And again;

Gen. 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

I know the implications, but they are only the fulfillment of warning after warning.

Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

And again;

Matt. 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

And again;

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And again;

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

It is written in the Holy scriptures;

Is. 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.

9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:

11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

The implications of believing what God has written for our admonition, even when the religions of the land do not, far out ways any animosity or ridicule one may be subjected to. It is my hope to have an honest examination of these scriptures and more, actually all or any of them, so we can discern between the Gospel of the God of the Bible, and the religious philosophies of religious men we are warned over and over about.

Studyman said:

No, it doesn't, and you know it. But i have grown accustomed to such behavior.

Thanks for the replies anyway.

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All man-made doctrines are revealed by the scripture that must be ignored to make them work.

You have just proven this fact.


Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.


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BABerean2 said:

All man-made doctrines are revealed by the scripture that must be ignored to make them work.

You have just proven this fact.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
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You were asked a question regarding this scripture. You deflected and refused to give an answer. I asked nicely;

"Please, in the interest of Biblical Truth, please answer this question. "Why were there still Israelite's alive on this day in Duet. 5?"

If you don't want to answer, that is fine. But don't be dishonest about my post. You can own your own religion without telling falsehoods about others.

Studyman said:

You were asked a question regarding this scripture. You deflected and refused to give an answer. I asked nicely;

"Please, in the interest of Biblical Truth, please answer this question. "Why were there still Israelite's alive on this day in Duet. 5?"

If you don't want to answer, that is fine. But don't be dishonest about my post. You can own your own religion without telling falsehoods about others.

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If you think the answer to your question will erase, or explain away Exodus 34:28, or Deuteronomy 5:1-3, we will look at chapter 4 of Deuteronomy.

Are you looking for those God destroyed below in verse 3?

However, it did not change verse 13.


Deu 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deu 4:3 Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you.
Deu 4:4 But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day.
Deu 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
Deu 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
Deu 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
Deu 4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
Deu 4:10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.
Deu 4:11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
Deu 4:12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.


It is not nice to call members of this forum "dishonest".
It is also against forum rules.

.

Studyman said:

In Galatians 3, Paul is confronting Jews who are trying to promote "works of the Law" to become righteous. Paul is saying that these "works" were "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham. They were "ADDED" to something, because of "Transgressions" of something. And they were "ADDED" until the SEED should come.

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I understand the problem you're bringing up - that we need to identify what specifically was added and to what was it added to....I'm just not convinced it's how you're interpreting it.

In Paul's letter to those in Galatia...he points out the Judaizers were promoting a continued need for circumcision; the following of dietary restrictions; and keeping the feast and holy days. These aren't Levitical priesthood issues....but Paul seems to be teaching they were obsolete in the New Covenant....and considered it as going backwards from what Paul had been teaching for those in the Church @ Galatia:

BABerean2 said:

If you think the answer to your question will erase, or explain away Exodus 34:28, or Deuteronomy 5:1-3, we will look at chapter 4 of Deuteronomy.

Are you looking for those God destroyed below in verse 3?

However, it did not change verse 13.


Deu 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.

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But Israel didn't "do them", they created a Golden calf and called it their God. I asked you how come they were still alive in Duet. 5. This scripture doesn't answer the question.

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

But they didn't keep the commandments. Why are they still alive in Duet 5?


Deu 4:3 Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you.
Deu 4:4 But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day.
Deu 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
Deu 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
Deu 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
Deu 4:9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
Deu 4:10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.
Deu 4:11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.
Deu 4:12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Click to expand...

This is the same thing God told them in Ex. 19.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.

8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

But they didn't do these things. They rejected God's Laws, they built a Golden calf and called it God. The Question I asked you was what happened in order for these folks to still be alive in Duet. 5, especially given what God did to the Egyptians in the Red Sea.

Ex. 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

What stopped God from consuming them?

It is not nice to call members of this forum "dishonest".
It is also against forum rules.

Click to expand...

"All man-made doctrines are revealed by the scripture that must be ignored to make them work.
You have just proven this fact."

It is not against the rules to be honest on this forum. The above words you said are not accurate as I am neither promoting man made doctrines, not have I ignored any scripture you posted. I pointed this out to you. If you were offended, I apologize.

Now can you tell me why the Children of Israel were still alive after they created a golden calf which is transgressing the first of the 10 Commandments God gave them when they came out of Egypt?

Duet 4 doesn't answer this question. It is just showing that those who were still alive in Duet 5, were given another chance to humble themselves to God. What happened to give them another chance?

Studyman said:

I was responding to your posted scripture from Paul.

Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

As for Acts 3, Peter is simply furthering the Gospel that has been taught since the world began.

18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

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So when you asked me the question, "How are sins forgiven from Moses to John the Baptist", what I answered was

By the time Mount Sinai arrived, God commanded the nation Israel to follow the Law of Moses, while providing a system of animal sacrifices whenever they fail to follow it perfectly. As long as the nation kept offering burnt sacrifices and try to keep the Law, God sees that as faith in him too.

That instruction continue to apply to the nation Israel, when Jesus was with them in the 4 gospels.

As Peter would remind Israel in Acts 3:19-21, as well as 1 Peter 1:9, and 1 Peter 4:17-19, their sins will only be finally forgiven at the end when Jesus returns for the nation in his 2nd coming. In the meantime, those animal sacrifices will cover their sins.

You have no issues with this reply right?