To Cease or to Continue, that is the Question

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Jesus is YHWH

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That was a demonic attack, a messenger of Satan. Nowhere does it say Paul didn't get healed. It's a lesson in how that healing took place, through deliverance from demons.

2Cor12v7..........Therefore, that I should not become conceited, a thorn in my flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, that he might buffet me, so that I should not become conceited.

Paul was a theological scholar, and the above is obviously a reference to the OT.-
Numbers33v55“ ‘But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your flesh. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live. 56And then I will do to you what I plan to do to them.’ ”

As can be seen, it was the responsibility of the Israelites to clear their new home of the enemy, and not to whine at God to do it for them. If they didn't get off their butts and fight, God just left them under the thumb of their enemies.
Likewise Christians today when it comes to demonic attacks.

Back to Paul's problems.
8Three times I begged the Lord for this, that it might depart from me. 9And He said to me, “My grace suffices you, for the power is perfected in weakness.”
This is entirely consistent with the OT and it took Paul three failed attempts to persuade God before he realised it.
The grace of God simply refers to the almighty spiritual power we have as sons of the king of kings. It has nothing to do with our personal prowess or training. Even a child can do it, as young David showed with Goliath, and as I have seen when small children cast demons out of people.

Therefore will I boast rather most gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10Therefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, and difficulties for Christ; for when I might be weak, then I am strong.

And it's the same today, as I have found in over 40 years of casting demons out of Christians.
impossible demons are not in a believer. thats an oxymoron
 
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John Mullally

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by all means believe in the health and wealth, name it claim it prosperity false doctrines thats your choice.

If I get sick its Gods will, simple as that. Nothings happens outside of Gods will for a believer.

You guys can have your false teachers like hinn and copeland. They are not from God.
Wow, there goes that Jesus with the the name it and claim it:

Mark 11:23 “Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Wow there goes that Jesus talking doing the Name it and claim it:


Wow, there goes that Jesus with the the name it and claim it:

Mark 11:23 “Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
go handle some rattlesnakes and get back to me
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Don't care to - not required to. Go study Mark 11:23-24 and get back to me - it is address to anyone.
I really have no interest in continuing with this I will never change my mind on tongues, healings, sign gifts etc......

Been doing it for 40 plus years and they are secondary issues that have nothing whatsoever to do with Salvation. Bigger fish to fry such as the Trinity, Deity of Christ, the Gospel, Bodily Resurrection, Salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. The Essentials are worth debating since they are SALVIFIC.

hope this helps !!!
 
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John Mullally

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I really have no interest in continuing with this I will never change my mind on tongues, healings, sign gifts etc......

Been doing it for 40 plus years and they are secondary issues that have nothing whatsoever to do with Salvation. Bigger fish to fry such as the Trinity, Deity of Christ, the Gospel, Bodily Resurrection, Salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. The Essentials are worth debating since they are SALVIFIC.

hope this helps !!!
For the record you have no interest in addressing Mark 11:23-24. Didn't know we can pick which instructions from Jesus we can attend to.

Luke 6:46 Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say? 47I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation. The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction!”
 
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For the record you have no interest in addressing Mark 11:23-24. Didn't know we can pick which instructions from Jesus we can attend to.

Luke 6:46 Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say? 47I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation. The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction!”
show me some before and after pics of the amputees you healed and the dead you raised and the deaf and blind.

thanks !
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Miracles in scripture are the exception not the rule. The time of the Exodus with Moses, the time of the prophets with Elijah and Elisha, the ministry of Jesus, and the time of the apostles. In each case these miracles authenticated the messenger was from God and when Gods revelation was no complete. The Law, the Prophets, Jesus and the Apostles.

hope this helps !!!
 
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If your are sincere (which you are not because you reject Mark 11:23-24), you can go watch Sid Roth on the YouTubes to find examples.
no interest thanks but no thanks. just another copeland, hinn wanna be
 
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John Mullally

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But for the record, do you reject Mark 11:23-24? Please answer with I accept it, I don't understand it (i.e. subject to Luke 6:49), I am studying it, or it is incorrect. No need to leave the 5 or 10 people listening to this in the lurch. Copeland and Hinn don't actually care.
 
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But for the record, do you reject Mark 11:23-24? Please answer with I accept it, I don't understand it (i.e. being slothful), I am studying it, or it is incorrect. No need to leave the 5 or 10 people listening to this in the lurch. Copeland and Hinn don't actually care.
only if its according to Gods will.

save your questions for someone else who is interested in the charismatic chaos, I'm not.

I would convert to Catholicism before becoming a charismatic. That should tell you everything you need to know about what I think of charismatic doctrines.
 
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JohnT

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Ever wonder why Paul didn't use that passage for Timothy's stomach problems, and instead advise him to drink wine, instead of water?

Are you saying Timothy had unbelief, so Paul did not advise him to declare "By Jesus stripes I am healed"?

That is quite a different thing, and unrelated to the gift of healing. Essentially, Paul is saying the equivalent of "Take some Maalox for your stomach". We all know that taken in moderation, because the Bible strongly condemns getting drunk, that there is medicinal properties in alcohol.

Did you notice that the shelves in your local stores ran out of hand sanitizers recently? That is another example of the medicinal properties of alcohol.

Healing in the Bible did not relieve mundane things like Irritable Bowel Syndrome. However, it was focused on lameness, blindness, and the woman in who had 11 years of vaginal bleeding. (Matthew 9:20; Mark 5: 26)

What you have done is created an analogy of false comparison, and used silence ("Paul never said...") to essentially make a claim that healing is bogus.

So while I am really not scolding you, the usage of logical fallacies in argumentation automatically invalidate the thesis of the user. Repent, you sinner! :p
 
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John Mullally

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Sure have watched McArthur and have participated on his forums as a Charismatic. I even noticed in his internet preaching recordings that he was open to the Gifts of the Spirit early on. Those records have been deleted. Apparently he changed his mind based upon experience - I change my mind all the time. He is related to Douglas McArthur - the great General. I have also studied McConnel on a "Different Gospel" - which is basically an anti-WoF book

I love learning different systems that are out there - having being deeply impacted away from Catholicism at age 13 by reading the Gospels. Keep the good, throw away the bad.

If I were to advise any reading, I would advise anything from Kenneth Hagin.
 
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