Climate Change 'skeptic' chosen to lead NOAA

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,954
3,864
48
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I don't know, but I would rather trust the methods of science, for all practical purposes. At any rate, a lack of knowledge doesn't mean I'm justified in believing anything, much less the notion that the world is ending soon merely because of a pandemic and some civil unrest.

It is not analogous to faith because the scientific method is based on falsifiability. The claims of Christian fundamentalism are not subject to falsifiability, they are untestable. I also find them quite absurd.

Point being: your stance on climate change is nothing more than your belief system. It is what you believe is happening, or will happen.

First, I am not your friend... do not patronize or assume otherwise.

I speak as I so choose, but thanks. Surprising a kind, even polite sentiment is so offensive.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,475
18,455
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,426.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
Point being: your stance on climate change is nothing more than your belief system. It is what you believe is happening, or will happen.

Climate change science is not a matter of wishful thinking or speculations based on bronze age myths.

I speak as I so choose, but thanks. Surprising a kind, even polite sentiment is so offensive.

It's not offensive, it's a statement of fact. I choose my friends carefully. The Buddha said a friend is a person who helps you walk the holy path. I see nothing holy about deception and lies.
 
Upvote 0

LostMarbels

All-Lives-Matter
Jun 18, 2011
11,954
3,864
48
Orlando Fl
✟173,798.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Climate change science is not a matter of wishful thinking or speculations based on bronze age myths.

Right... Im 45. Do you know how many times in my life I should have died in a flood, ice age, heat wave etc?

Meanwhile, nature has learned how to eat (breakdown) plastics...


Nature always finds a way...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ananda
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
16,346
10,240
Earth
✟137,598.00
Country
United States
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
Science can only explain what is observed, provided data on what is tested, and rationalize what is already understood or accepted by the community.

Everything else is conveniently described as 'not yet known'.
Yes,
“Knowledge increases ignorance.”—Sir Terry Pratchett
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paulos23
Upvote 0

Akita Suggagaki

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
6,732
4,896
69
Midwest
✟279,068.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yes,
“Knowledge increases ignorance.”—Sir Terry Pratchett
Well, the more we learn, the more we realize how ignorant we are.
The less we learn, the less we realize anything.
 
Upvote 0

MIDutch

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2020
2,421
3,383
67
Detroit
✟75,674.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Yes,
“Knowledge increases ignorance.”—Sir Terry Pratchett
The way creationists view reality, this is true.

Every new transitional fossil that science discovers that creationists ask for always makes two new gaps on eiither side.
 
Upvote 0

ISteveB

Active Member
Sep 17, 2020
302
209
64
Northern Nevada
✟25,434.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
With five named cyclonic storms simultaneously in the Atlantic (2nd time that's ever been recorded) and a wildfire season for the ages in the West, Trump has put the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, a scientific agency responsible for the National Weather Service and other important operations in the hands of someone who questions the severity of climate change. This, of course, goes hand in hand with Trump's recent statement that science 'doesn't know' about climate.

LINK

NOAA taps David Legates, professor who questions the seriousness and severity of global warming, for top role
Critics fear move could threaten the scientific integrity of one of the country’s foremost climate research agencies.

Legates was formerly Delaware’s state climatologist, a position from which he he stepped down in 2011. He had come under pressure from then-Gov. Ruth Ann Minner (D), because of his fossil fuel industry-funded research casting doubt on the science showing that burning coal, oil and other fossil fuels is the main factor behind heating the planet and would lead to dangerous effects such as sea level rise and extreme weather events.

Legates is affiliated with the Heartland Institute, a free-market think tank funded in part by the fossil fuel industry that supports research arguing that human-caused climate change is not a serious threat.

Legates’s arrival at NOAA comes a year after the agency’s scientific independence took a hit when the agency criticized its own forecasters’ accurate forecast for Hurricane Dorian to satisfy White House concerns that its communications were making the president look bad for having claimed, erroneously, that the storm would threaten Alabama.

Watchdogs such as Gretchen Goldman of the Union of Concerned Scientists, a research and advocacy group, said they fear that Legates’s appointment signals a new level of interference in the agency’s scientific work.

“This is a disappointing move. It is a slap in the face to NOAA scientists who work daily to conduct and communicate climate science to the public and decision makers,” Goldman said in an email. “Until now, NOAA has largely evaded the kind of anti-science political appointees that have devastated the EPA and Interior. With Dr. Legates we risk seeing the same kind of politicization of science and corruption of ethics. At the same time, NOAA has a strong culture of scientific integrity; Dr Legates must be ready to uphold it.”

On Monday, the American Geophysical Union, which is the world’s largest scientific society representing Earth and space sciences, publicly urged that Legates’ appointment be rescinded. “With climate change producing raging wildfires in the western United States and devastating hurricanes in the Atlantic, our nation – and the world – cannot afford to have our federal government undermining the important work of climate scientists,” wrote Randy Fiser, the group’s executive director and CEO.

fwiw, "climate change", "global warming", and "global cooling" skepticism has been around for decades.

This conversation started with global cooling in the 70's. then, when more was learned about venus, they were terrified that the planet would experience "run away warming" and that would result in dramatic cooling. That cartoon movie--- ferngully was the first real political engagement.
then it changed to climate change, because the cooling stopped, the warming became cooling, and now..... well..... they're still learning, and can't figure it out.

I can however assure you that these fires in the western US for the past few weeks.... they will result in cooling. As will whatever volcanic activity.

From my observations-- human's seeking to intervene, and control weather will result in catastrophic damage, which will bring about what they fear.... climate change.
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
32,822
36,126
Los Angeles Area
✟820,755.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
fwiw, "climate change", "global warming", and "global cooling" skepticism has been around for decades.

This conversation started with global cooling in the 70's.

You may have been told that, but it just isn't so.

From my observations-- human's seeking to intervene, and control weather will result in catastrophic damage, which will bring about what they fear.... climate change.

Humans have already caused climate change to the extent that there are negative effects. The question is what, if anything, to do about it.
 
Upvote 0

Yttrium

Independent Centrist
May 19, 2019
3,854
4,268
Pacific NW
✟242,497.00
Country
United States
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
Single
Agnosticism-Atheism.png

Yeah, by that chart I'm neither gnostic nor agnostic, so I guess "skeptic" is the way to go.

And I guess where Republicans are concerned, I'd take a climate change skeptic over a climate change denier.
 
Upvote 0

Skewpoint

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2019
570
803
43
USA
✟72,362.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Private
Yeah, by that chart I'm neither gnostic nor agnostic, so I guess "skeptic" is the way to go.

And I guess where Republicans are concerned, I'd take a climate change skeptic over a climate change denier.
Typically, you're either Gnostic or Agnostic depending on which definition of god the current conversation involves.

I feel in America, there's a kind of preconceived accepted idea that if God exists, it's the Biblical one or some version of it, and if it doesn't, then none exist. I think this idea needs to change amongst the general population.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Yttrium

Independent Centrist
May 19, 2019
3,854
4,268
Pacific NW
✟242,497.00
Country
United States
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
Single
Typically, you're either Gnostic or Agnostic depending on which definition of god the current conversation involves.

Not if you go by the strict definition of agnostic, as helpfully provided in that chart. I have no idea whether or not it's impossible to be certain.

Granted, that's the "hard" definition for agnostic. But if you claim to be agnostic, people may assume you follow that definition.
 
Upvote 0

Skewpoint

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2019
570
803
43
USA
✟72,362.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Private
Not if you go by the strict definition of agnostic, as helpfully provided in that chart. I have no idea whether or not it's impossible to be certain.

Granted, that's the "hard" definition for agnostic. But if you claim to be agnostic, people may assume you follow that definition.
I'm likely in a similar boat to you. I'm immediately suspicious of anybody who would claim to be a Gnostic, about almost any topic. Being 100% certain about something tells me that no amount of evidence could change their mind. Not a good way to go about things.

Either way, if you tell me you're a "Skeptic Atheist" I think I would understand what you're trying to get across.
 
Upvote 0

ISteveB

Active Member
Sep 17, 2020
302
209
64
Northern Nevada
✟25,434.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You may have been told that, but it just isn't so.



Humans have already caused climate change to the extent that there are negative effects. The question is what, if anything, to do about it.
Well, I was actually there, so thank you, but I'm not drinking koolaid today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LostMarbels
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
32,822
36,126
Los Angeles Area
✟820,755.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Well, I was actually there, so thank you, but I'm not drinking koolaid today.

By 'there' do you mean working among the climate scientists in the 1970s, or do you mean walking by a newsstand and seeing a Time magazine cover?

Screenshot.png
 
Upvote 0

ISteveB

Active Member
Sep 17, 2020
302
209
64
Northern Nevada
✟25,434.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
By 'there' do you mean working among the climate scientists in the 1970s, or do you mean walking by a newsstand and seeing a Time magazine cover?

Screenshot.png
I lived through it. I was born in 1960, and saw everything from population bomb, global cooling, where the ice sheets were supposed to come all the way down to Wash. DC, to run away global warming, where earth was supposed to become like Venus, to climate change, and the ice sheets were supposed to be gone by 2010, through to today, when no one knows jack about it, and are still playing darts with our lives.

So... I was there.

What's ironically amusing is--- science didn't know then, and they haven't known since, and based on that.... they're still assuming, but have gotten enough money to convince the masses they are the gods of the cosmos.

Sorry, I'm not bothered by it any more. the BS has just become too thick to waste my life freaking out about it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ISteveB

Active Member
Sep 17, 2020
302
209
64
Northern Nevada
✟25,434.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
By 'there' do you mean working among the climate scientists in the 1970s, or do you mean walking by a newsstand and seeing a Time magazine cover?

Screenshot.png

I suppose I should state that I look forward to climate change.
I actually like living on a planet with a dynamic climate and atmosphere. I can't imagine living on a world like venus, where the climate is consistently hot, or like on Mars where's its consistently cold.

I look forward to the day when the ice is gone from Greenland, and from Antarctica, and we will have two new continents to travel to, explore, maybe even buy property on, and create new civilizations on.

I like the idea of living in a world where the climate is tropical, and God controls it, keeping it consistent.

I have a novel thought for you.....

Ever read Isaiah 30:26?

I encourage you to investigate that....
 
  • Like
Reactions: LostMarbels
Upvote 0

Nithavela

our world is happy and mundane
Apr 14, 2007
27,997
19,443
Comb. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell/Jamaica Avenue.
✟489,034.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
I suppose I should state that I look forward to climate change.
I actually like living on a planet with a dynamic climate and atmosphere. I can't imagine living on a world like venus, where the climate is consistently hot, or like on Mars where's its consistently cold.

I look forward to the day when the ice is gone from Greenland, and from Antarctica, and we will have two new continents to travel to, explore, maybe even buy property on, and create new civilizations on.

I like the idea of living in a world where the climate is tropical, and God controls it, keeping it consistent.

I have a novel thought for you.....

Ever read Isaiah 30:26?

I encourage you to investigate that....
Do you also look forward to parts of the earth, including big parts of the middle east, to become so hot that human life is no longer possible?

Do you look forward to hunger riots as the Ogallala Aquifer dries up and the bread basket of the USA empties?
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Stranger in a Strange Land
Oct 17, 2011
32,822
36,126
Los Angeles Area
✟820,755.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
I lived through it. I was born in 1960
So... I was there.

I was born in the same decade. I was there too. But the evidence shows you're mistaken about what 'all the scientists' were saying.

What's ironically amusing is--- science didn't know then, and they haven't known since, and based on that.... they're still assuming, but have gotten enough money to convince the masses they are the gods of the cosmos.

I don't know what kind of malarkey you're talking about, but the predictions of climate models have generally been quite accurate. Models developed over past decades predicted future forecasts that (now looking back 20 years later) match observations pretty well.

1983
 
Upvote 0

ISteveB

Active Member
Sep 17, 2020
302
209
64
Northern Nevada
✟25,434.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Do you also look forward to parts of the earth, including big parts of the middle east, to become so hot that human life is no longer possible?

Do you look forward to hunger riots as the Ogallala Aquifer dries up and the bread basket of the USA empties?
So far, you haven't actually provided evidence of this....

God has made it demonstrable that the earth has feedback loops which when the ground gets too hot, rain clouds form, and it rains....

As I live in a desert myself, western Nevada (aka, the Great Basin).... we can use it. We haven't withered away yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LostMarbels
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ISteveB

Active Member
Sep 17, 2020
302
209
64
Northern Nevada
✟25,434.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I was born in the same decade. I was there too. But the evidence shows you're mistaken about what 'all the scientists' were saying.



I don't know what kind of malarkey you're talking about, but the predictions of climate models have generally been quite accurate. Models developed over past decades predicted future forecasts that (now looking back 20 years later) match observations pretty well.

1983
Tell me something here.... do you believe the world is 6000 years old, or 4.5 billion years old?
 
Upvote 0