Climate Change 'skeptic' chosen to lead NOAA

Gene2memE

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Under One King

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I could ask the same question of you...but let's not go in circles.
Fair enough, but based on their actions and patterns they seem to be following, power seems to be what their drive is. That goes for many on both sides.
 
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Jimmy D

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You're factually incorrect. The definition I gave you has thousands of years of precedence in philosophy, theology, and language.

But not current usage (generally speaking).

I agree with essentialsaltes, but thanks for telling us what we believe.
 
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KarateCowboy

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But not current usage (generally speaking).

I agree with essentialsaltes, but thanks for telling us what we believe.
Only among the ignorant.

Also: "I believe what I believe and since I believe it there's no way I can be wrong about it because I'm an expert on me". Yeah, sure.
 
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KarateCowboy

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essentialsaltes

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Also: "I believe what I believe and since I believe it there's no way I can be wrong about it because I'm an expert on me". Yeah, sure.

Thanks once again for telling us what we believe!
 
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Gene2memE

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I'm very aware of the 'classic' definition(s) of atheism. I'm also aware that the definition of atheism is a "vexed and vexatious issue" (quoting Stephen Bullivant).

I happen to disagree with the traditional view in philosophy of defining atheism as a negation of theism, rather than a lack of theism (the position I hold).

I generally ascribe to description of of atheism put forward by philosophers of religion like Shaw, Flew, Ruse, Martin and Bullivant - that non-belief in the existence of deities is the default position to hold until such time as sufficiently convincing evidence of their existence is presented. That non-belief is what I call "atheism".

For some deity claims I would have a position of "positive" or "strong" atheism. That is that there is sufficient evidentiary warrant to make the claim that these do not exist. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a good example. The classical 'God of the omnis' is another - as the concept itself is logically incoherent, giving rise to any number of paradoxes and contradictory conculusions.

For other deity claims, particularly the "God" of current philosophical theism, I hold a position of non-belief or "weak" atheism. For instance, I hold that William Lane Craig's formulation of the properties of the God of Western monotheism as "maximally X" is non-demonstrable and non-verifiable. Thus I can't say that such a deity doesn't exist - because I have no evidentiary warrant to do so - but I don't accept that it does - again, because I have no evidentiary warrant
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Under One King

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I neither worship death, nor the dead. We are in the end times. While you mock, please forgive me if I continue trimming my lamps in preparation of the groom.
Straighten up and raise your head, for our redemption is drawing near.
 
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LostMarbels

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Straighten up and raise your head, for our redemption is drawing near.

We are so blessed to be living in these days. It's so cool to see something you have held to be true for decades, come to pass in front of your very eyes.
 
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KarateCowboy

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I'm very aware of the 'classic' definition(s) of atheism. I'm also aware that the definition of atheism is a "vexed and vexatious issue" (quoting Stephen Bullivant).

I happen to disagree with the traditional view in philosophy of defining atheism as a negation of theism, rather than a lack of theism (the position I hold).

I generally ascribe to description of of atheism put forward by philosophers of religion like Shaw, Flew, Ruse, Martin and Bullivant - that non-belief in the existence of deities is the default position to hold until such time as sufficiently convincing evidence of their existence is presented. That non-belief is what I call "atheism".

For some deity claims I would have a position of "positive" or "strong" atheism. That is that there is sufficient evidentiary warrant to make the claim that these do not exist. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a good example. The classical 'God of the omnis' is another - as the concept itself is logically incoherent, giving rise to any number of paradoxes and contradictory conculusions.

For other deity claims, particularly the "God" of current philosophical theism, I hold a position of non-belief or "weak" atheism. For instance, I hold that William Lane Craig's formulation of the properties of the God of Western monotheism as "maximally X" is non-demonstrable and non-verifiable. Thus I can't say that such a deity doesn't exist - because I have no evidentiary warrant to do so - but I don't accept that it does - again, because I have no evidentiary warrant
We have a word for mere lack of belief in god. It's "agnosticism".
 
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Gene2memE

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We have a word for mere lack of belief in god. It's "agnosticism".

Agnosticism relates to knowledge, not belief. Knowledge being a sub-set of belief.

When I was a Catholic, I was an agnostic Catholic. I believed God existed (because I had been taught so from my earliest memories), but I didn't claim to have actual knowledge of whether a God existed or did not.

When I went back and has a proper examination of my religious beliefs in my late 20s and early 30s, I realised that I had no justification for what I believed (quite a shock at the time). So I abandoned that belief.

It still doesn't mean I assert no God exists. From my perspective, it could well do. It's just that I don't think anyone has presented me with sufficient evidence to accept a claim that it does.

(As an aside, I enjoy these sorts of discussions with my family and have been fascinated by the changes in their beliefs over the last decade or so. My sister, after lots of back and forth on this, would be classed as an agnostic Catholic. My brother has become an anti-theist - that is, he is convinced that no deities exist. My mother has gone from being very laissez faire Catholic to ignostic - after research and reading, she say the atheist/theist dichotomy is meaningless, as no concept of a deity presented to her makes any coherent sense. My father is probably closest to myself in his beliefs - in that he shed his belief that the Judeo-Christian God exists but doesn't positively claim that it does not exist.)
 
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KarateCowboy

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Agnosticism relates to knowledge, not belief. Knowledge being a sub-set of belief.

When I was a Catholic, I was an agnostic Catholic. I believed God existed (because I had been taught so from my earliest memories), but I didn't claim to have actual knowledge of whether a God existed or did not.

When I went back and has a proper examination of my religious beliefs in my late 20s and early 30s, I realised that I had no justification for what I believed (quite a shock at the time). So I abandoned that belief.

It still doesn't mean I assert no God exists. From my perspective, it could well do. It's just that I don't think anyone has presented me with sufficient evidence to accept a claim that it does.

(As an aside, I enjoy these sorts of discussions with my family and have been fascinated by the changes in their beliefs over the last decade or so. My sister, after lots of back and forth on this, would be classed as an agnostic Catholic. My brother has become an anti-theist - that is, he is convinced that no deities exist. My mother has gone from being very laissez faire Catholic to ignostic - after research and reading, she say the atheist/theist dichotomy is meaningless, as no concept of a deity presented to her makes any coherent sense. My father is probably closest to myself in his beliefs - in that he shed his belief that the Judeo-Christian God exists but doesn't positively claim that it does not exist.)
agnostic at DuckDuckGo

  • n.
    One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

 
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FireDragon76

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Tell me... where did all that 'is' come from? Want to bet you have your own belief system concerning this topic? Some things even science must take on faith because they are inexplicable.

You are wrong about what science is. It is not analogous to religious faith.

The whole point of science is to explain the workings of nature in terms of material causation.

At any rate, I doubt you understand much about my worldview, and seem to be focusing upon caricatures of anybody that rejects your religion.
 
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LostMarbels

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You are wrong about what science is. It is not analogous to religious faith.

The whole point of science is to explain the workings of nature in terms of material causation.

At any rate, I doubt you understand much about my worldview, and seem to be focusing upon caricatures of anybody that rejects your religion.

Science can only explain what is observed, provided data on what is tested, and rationalize what is already understood or accepted by the community.

Everything else is conveniently described as 'not yet known'.
 
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LostMarbels

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You are wrong about what science is. It is not analogous to religious faith.

I would be interested in understanding how you view the laws of physics even came to be, in order for an incident like the big bang to occur. Where did/does matter come from?

Gravity... did it evolve over trillions of years? Did it 'learn' to be gravity? Where did the substance 'of' gravity even come from to even form this force?

Many things in science are believed, not know. That is faith my friend.
 
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essentialsaltes

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We have a word for mere lack of belief in god. It's "agnosticism".

Sorry, internet memes trump Duckduckgo.

Agnosticism-Atheism.png
 
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Belk

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agnostic at DuckDuckGo

  • n.
    One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.


Odd, I clicked on your link and then searched the page for your posted definition but it did not come up. Would you care to link it directly?
 
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FireDragon76

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I would be interested in understanding how you view the laws of physics even came to be, in order for an incident like the big bang to occur. Where did/does matter come from?

I don't know, but I would rather trust the methods of science, for all practical purposes. At any rate, a lack of knowledge doesn't mean I'm justified in believing anything, much less the notion that the world is ending soon merely because of a pandemic and some civil unrest.

Many things in science are believed, not know. That is faith my friend.

First, I am not your friend... do not patronize or assume otherwise.

It is not analogous to faith because the scientific method is based on falsifiability. The claims of Christian fundamentalism are not subject to falsifiability, they are untestable. I also find them quite absurd.
 
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