Do we live primarily for the present or the future?

Do we live primarily for the present or the future?


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public hermit

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What am I willing to sacrifice today for a future that may be 20 years off?

If I knew I was going home to the Lord tomorrow, what would I do differently today? Whatever that is, why am I not doing it now?
 
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Lost4words

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It's probably the highlight of your day! :)
And of course a walk in the park. Bet you were chuffed when Boris announced we could all have an hour of exercise outdoors!

Yea. I get to take my owner for a walk.

Good old Boris. What i would give to get my teeth around his ankle! :mad:
 
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public hermit

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Everyday I'm waiting on the salvation of the Lord to come. The things of this world are becoming unattractive. I yearn for heaven and Christ's glory.

Me too. Does that effect the decisions you make on a daily basis? If so, how?

I'll be honest, as much as I long for the Lord's coming, I make many of my day-to-day decisions on matters wholly unrelated to that. Maybe that's unavoidable.
 
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friend of

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It's a little hard to live outside the present. I sometimes feel anxious about the future. I want it so bad.
Me too. Does that effect the decisions you make on a daily basis? If so, how?
I just try to put God first in all my decisions. He will make straight my paths I believe.
 
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zippy2006

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1. Is it true that, practically speaking, we live primarily for the present and not for the future? I'm not asking what we should do, but what we actually do.

I don't think so. Aquinas says that we act for ends, which is to say that most all of our actions are chosen because they conduce to some future end. The only time someone lives for the present is when they are doing something as an end in itself and this is rare in our culture, at least for the older generations.

Christians act for God, but this isn't a temporal goal located somewhere in the distant future. If a Christian in her 20's is doing everything with an eye to the moment of death and heaven, and she is certain that this will not be for another 70 years, then she is making two mistakes: 1) She is too certain about the length of her life and is not entering into the "memento mori," and 2) She does not understand that union with God is supposed to begin during our earthly lives, and should not be relegated to heaven.

2. If (1) is true, then how do we, as Christians, live for a future hope that might still be a good way off, when much of what we decide and do in everyday life pertains to the present and immediate future?

See, I don't understand why the present or immediate future would have less relevance with respect to our final end than the distant future. Do Christians need to focus on the distant future in a special way?
 
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jacks

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This is a good point. And, it's one I can be susceptible to, as well.

So, how can we live in the present, while also being attentive to our future hope? I am thinking here in terms of the usual sacrifices that Christians are called to make, which may make the present somewhat uncomfortable or difficult, and yet is expected of us, nonetheless?

For instance, and this gets to an area I can have a tendency to worry about, how do I figure my finances in such a way that I am being prudent towards possible future need (i.e. not blowing it all for the sake of an immediate pleasure), while also being willing to share and maybe share more than I am comfortable with? This is just an example, but it kind of gets to the tension between living in the present, having an eye to the future, and also being faithful to we are called to be.

It might just be a personality/how you were raised thing. For me I tend to focus too much on the future, ignoring all the wonders and joys that are before me. So I need to work on being more in the present. Someone else may have a tendency to only live in the present and they need to work on caring more for the future. Like so many things, I think balance is the key.
And your example is a good one, finances. Being a person worried about the future I tend to be stingier than I should be. I think being more in the present would make me more generous. On the other hand totally ignoring that I will probably be alive tomorrow, means I shouldn't be so generous that I put myself in a situation where I have to count on others help. Where that perfect balance is I don't know; but I do know my personal weakness is looking too far ahead.
 
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public hermit

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I don't think so.

I guess it depends on what we mean by "present."

1. If we mean the moment in that moment, then that is all too rare and hard to sustain. But, all things being equal, our concern for the future does seem to diminish as we think further and further ahead. I care more about today than I do two years from now. I care more about a month from now than I do ten years from now. In this sense, I care more about the present than the future (i.e. what's happening closer to now is more important than the future).

2. Then there is the future expectation of beatitude. I assume, for the Christian, this should be a determining factor (telos) in any given present moment. But, of course, the realization of that future is unknown. That telos should be a determining factor whether that telos is realized tomorrow, or thirty years from now. So, in this sense, I care more about the future than the present (i.e. the future telos is more important than what is happening closer to now).

This is the tension I am thinking the Christian confronts. A concern for the present, and yet a future telos that should inform the present. The concern for the present may not match what one should be concerned about in regards to beatitude. Add to that, one doesn't know if the realization of that future telos is today or forty years from now.

Aquinas says that we act for ends, which is to say that most all of our actions are chosen because they conduce to some future end.

That makes sense. And, the end might be in the next minute (coffee in the morning) or forty years from now (saving for retirement). One of those we would call the "present" and one we wouldn't.

The only time someone lives for the present is when they are doing something as an end in itself and this is rare in our culture, at least for the older generations.

I am trying to think of an example. Do you mean like playing music just for the sake of hearing it? That would be in the present. I could also act for an end that is not itself and it be in the present. I could play music because I think the pretty girl listening to it will like me more.

Christians act for God, but this isn't a temporal goal located somewhere in the distant future. If a Christian in her 20's is doing everything with an eye to the moment of death and heaven, and she is certain that this will not be for another 70 years, then she is making two mistakes: 1) She is too certain about the length of her life and is not entering into the "memento mori," and 2) She does not understand that union with God is supposed to begin during our earthly lives, and should not be relegated to heaven.

I agree with your assessment of the presumptuous 20 year old on both counts. ;) I would also say Christians act for God. In one important aspect I would disagree that it is not a temporal goal located somewhere in the future. It is a temporal goal by the sheer fact that it is significantly still in the future. Our presumptuous Christian in her 20's cannot say, "I am now experiencing beatitude." She can say she is in union. She can say this union is not relegated to heaven. And, she can also say her beatitude is still in the future. All three statements can be held together, without pain of contradiction.

See, I don't understand why the present or immediate future would have less relevance with respect to our final end than the distant future. Do Christians need to focus on the distant future in a special way?

I think it's a fact that the relative present has a natural tendency to take precedence. When I read the assertion, we care more about the present than the future, that's how I take it. Assuming that's the case, this is the tension I think is peculiar to the Christian. There is a sense where there is nothing more relevant than right now. There is another sense where a future telos overrides whatever is happening right now and should the prime motivating factor. That telos could be in the next five minutes. Or, it could be decades from now.

So we don't just have to frame the present in light of beatitude, but in light of one that has a temporal aspect. It is either sooner or later. So, now, that beatitude becomes entangled in our temporal experience of not really caring about the future as much as we do the present. If I would do things differently today because I knew beatitude was coming in 24 hours, then that temporal aspect has too much influence on the final end.
 
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public hermit

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It might just be a personality/how you were raised thing. For me I tend to focus too much on the future, ignoring all the wonders and joys that are before me. So I need to work on being more in the present. Someone else may have a tendency to only live in the present and they need to work on caring more for the future. Like so many things, I think balance is the key.

That makes a lot of sense. It reminds me of Aristotle's notion that we should overshoot the mean in the direction opposite our tendency. I also need to focus on the present because I can be prone to worry and project. Practically speaking, contemplative prayer has been a big help for me.

And your example is a good one, finances. Being a person worried about the future I tend to be stingier than I should be. I think being more in the present would make me more generous

This is exactly what I am thinking. I think greed and generosity are related to our focus on the future or present.

On the other hand totally ignoring that I will probably be alive tomorrow, means I shouldn't be so generous that I put myself in a situation where I have to count on others help.

It does seem counter-productive to give to the point of being in need. But, usually I am pretty far from that place, haha. ^_^ I am pretty much convinced that not knowing makes a significant difference. How could it not? I don't know what to do with that.
 
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public hermit

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If you live in the present, with a focus on serving God. You will actually (if done correctly) have lived for the future.

That makes good sense. It's the "if done correctly" part that gets tricky. ;) Any insight into that?
 
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iLove

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For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Phil. 1:21

The maturing Christians has one eye on the soon-coming "Judgement Seat of Christ (knowing that we will stand before our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ)

Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. Rev. 3:11

Hebrews 11
“24 By Faith Moses, when he was come to years (refers to him coming to the age of 40 [Ex. 2:11]), refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter (in effect, he refused the position of Pharaoh of Egypt, for which he had been trained because he had been adopted by Pharaoh’s daughter);

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God (proclaims the choice Moses made; He traded the temporal for the Eternal), than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season (presents the choice which must be made, affliction or the pleasures of sin);

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt (he judged the reproach was greater than the throne of Egypt): for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. (Moses habitually “looked away” from the treasures in Egypt, and purposely fixed his eye on the Heavenly Reward.)”
 
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d taylor

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That makes good sense. It's the "if done correctly" part that gets tricky. ;) Any insight into that?

Well what you do for God will be tested with fire, what survives will be yours what burns up will be lost.

So what you do must be guided by the Holy Spirit and not of your own efforts.
 
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public hermit

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Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. Rev. 3:11

Hebrews 11
“24 By Faith Moses, when he was come to years (refers to him coming to the age of 40 [Ex. 2:11]), refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter (in effect, he refused the position of Pharaoh of Egypt, for which he had been trained because he had been adopted by Pharaoh’s daughter);

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God (proclaims the choice Moses made; He traded the temporal for the Eternal), than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season (presents the choice which must be made, affliction or the pleasures of sin);

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt (he judged the reproach was greater than the throne of Egypt): for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. (Moses habitually “looked away” from the treasures in Egypt, and purposely fixed his eye on the Heavenly Reward.)”

This idea of Moses choosing affliction rather than the pleasures of Egypt very nicely captures this tension Christians are faced with. The present is always to be seen and lived within light of the promise. But you can only do so by pain of ignoring the pull of the present, perhaps?

What do you think about the "I am coming quickly!" part? Is it like the example of a woman who gives birth and forgets about her labor? Not really quick but forgettable in light of what obtains?
 
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iLove

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This idea of Moses choosing affliction rather than the pleasures of Egypt very nicely captures this tension Christians are faced with. The present is always to be seen and lived within light of the promise. But you can only do so by pain of ignoring the pull of the present, perhaps?

What do you think about the "I am coming quickly!" part? Is it like the example of a woman who gives birth and forgets about her labor? Not really quick but forgettable in light of what obtains?
Confirming the souls of the Disciples (pertained to the new converts in these areas), and exhorting them to continue in the Faith (it is not he who begins, but he who finishes), and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God (quite a different Message than that being presently proposed).” Acts14:22

Until the time came to fulfill his dreams, the LORD tested Joseph’s character. (Regarding the mission that God had for Joseph, which Joseph was not even aware of, he would have to be put to the test. Faith must be tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly.)” Psalm 105:19 NLT

“10 Behold, I have refined you, but not with silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction. (Israel was “refined” in Egypt, and was to be “refined” after Isaiah’s day in Babylon, and will be “refined” during the coming Great Tribulation. The “furnace of affliction” always has to do with wrongdoing on the part of the individual or nation. The Lord allows the affliction, hopefully, that it will bring the person or nation to Repentance! Consequently, Israel still has one great “furnace of affliction” to go through!)” Isaiah 48:10

“7 That the trial of your Faith (all Faith is tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly), being much more precious than of gold that perishes (the emphasis is the testing of our Faith to show whether or not it is genuine; the Holy Spirit says such is more precious than the testing of gold, which is the most precious commodity in the world; is our Faith really in the Cross or not?), though it be tried with fire (the fire of temptation, trouble, etc.; such are meant to show the weakness), might be found unto Praise and Honour and Glory (which can only be done if the Cross of Christ is the sole Object of our Faith) at the appearing of Jesus Christ (we are being prepared by the Holy Spirit as fit subjects for the appearing of our Lord, as it regards the Rapture):” 1 Peter 1:7
 
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Mark Quayle

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I recently came across this assertion: We live mainly for the present, not the future. I think, all things being equal, that's right. Practically speaking, much of what we do pertains to the present, or perhaps, the immediate future. But the further out into the future we consider, the less our current choices and activities pertain to it. Humans are myopic. It is a rare individual who regularly acts on behalf of what might be ten, twenty, or thirty years from now. Exceptions, of course, can be found. But, generally speaking, we are mostly concerned with the here and now, or what is not far from the here and now. At best most of what we do concerns what will be within a year's time.

Assuming the above is accurate, this presents a particular problem for us as Christians. For the most part, our hope is tied to a future that may be still be a good way off. You may live thirty more years, depending on your age. And yet, our actions are, to some extent, to be done in light of a promised future that only the Father knows in advance. We are to refrain from certain things, not on the promise of immediate gratification, but on the promise of a blessed hope that may be awhile in coming.

So, two questions:
1. Is it true that, practically speaking, we live primarily for the present and not for the future? I'm not asking what we should do, but what we actually do.
2. If (1) is true, then how do we, as Christians, live for a future hope that might still be a good way off, when much of what we decide and do in everyday life pertains to the present and immediate future? In other words, what are some practical things a person can do to overcome the human tendency to be myopic in outlook?

What we should be living for is Christ. The future hope (literally, "expectation") and present blessing are one and the same --Christ. "Apart from me, you can do nothing." We also have nothing, and are nothing, apart from Christ.

Psalm 73:25 "Whom have I in heaven but You? And being with you, I desire nothing on earth."
 
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public hermit

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The future hope (literally, "expectation") and present blessing are one and the same --Christ.

What does this look like on the ground, in everyday living?

Psalm 73:25 "Whom have I in heaven but You? And being with you, I desire nothing on earth."

What does it look like for the Christian to desire nothing on earth? Is the Christian's life going to look radically different than the person who does desire things on earth? Or, is it going to look the same, but with different motivations?
 
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zippy2006

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I guess it depends on what we mean by "present."

1. If we mean the moment in that moment, then that is all too rare and hard to sustain. But, all things being equal, our concern for the future does seem to diminish as we think further and further ahead. I care more about today than I do two years from now. I care more about a month from now than I do ten years from now. In this sense, I care more about the present than the future (i.e. what's happening closer to now is more important than the future).

2. Then there is the future expectation of beatitude. I assume, for the Christian, this should be a determining factor (telos) in any given present moment. But, of course, the realization of that future is unknown. That telos should be a determining factor whether that telos is realized tomorrow, or thirty years from now. So, in this sense, I care more about the future than the present (i.e. the future telos is more important than what is happening closer to now).

This is the tension I am thinking the Christian confronts. A concern for the present, and yet a future telos that should inform the present. The concern for the present may not match what one should be concerned about in regards to beatitude. Add to that, one doesn't know if the realization of that future telos is today or forty years from now.

Sure, that makes sense. First I would say that (1) could be habitual, practical, or myopic. For example, it could be practical in the same sense that a preacher writes a sermon for next Sunday before writing his sermons for October.

The sense I got from the OP was that there is a vice of procrastination or myopia that prevents us from living for goals that are far in the future. The example of saving for retirement comes to mind: someone might fixate on instant gratification, live paycheck to paycheck, and never save for retirement. When retirement age arrives they will be disappointed that they did not sacrifice short term goals for long term goals.

Now I'm not sure that the Christian telos works that way. I'm not sure we have the ability to set aside a part of our monthly paycheck in order to save for the retirement of heaven. Let me respond to the rest of your post before continuing in that vein...

That makes sense. And, the end might be in the next minute (coffee in the morning) or forty years from now (saving for retirement). One of those we would call the "present" and one we wouldn't.

Sure.

I am trying to think of an example. Do you mean like playing music just for the sake of hearing it? That would be in the present. I could also act for an end that is not itself and it be in the present. I could play music because I think the pretty girl listening to it will like me more.

Yes, that's a good point. There need not be temporal distance between the means and the end.

I agree with your assessment of the presumptuous 20 year old on both counts. ;)

Haha

I would also say Christians act for God. In one important aspect I would disagree that it is not a temporal goal located somewhere in the future. It is a temporal goal by the sheer fact that it is significantly still in the future. Our presumptuous Christian in her 20's cannot say, "I am now experiencing beatitude." She can say she is in union. She can say this union is not relegated to heaven. And, she can also say her beatitude is still in the future. All three statements can be held together, without pain of contradiction.

I think I agree with most of this. One reservation I have is this: in saying that it is a temporal goal you are apparently committed to the position that the achievement of this goal requires a certain number of resources, and that the person who lives only for the present isn't properly allocating their resources towards the future goal (much like retirement). Well, what are those resources?

I think it's a fact that the relative present has a natural tendency to take precedence. When I read the assertion, we care more about the present than the future, that's how I take it. Assuming that's the case, this is the tension I think is peculiar to the Christian. There is a sense where there is nothing more relevant than right now. There is another sense where a future telos overrides whatever is happening right now and should the prime motivating factor. That telos could be in the next five minutes. Or, it could be decades from now.

But what does it mean to say that the future telos overrides whatever is happening right now? I understand what that means with respect to retirement, but not with respect to beatitude. Let me just restate my last point because I think it is still important:

"See, I don't understand why the present or immediate future would have less relevance with respect to our final end than the distant future. Do Christians need to focus on the distant future in a special way?"
To put it slightly differently, isn't every point of our life equidistant from eternity, and equidistant from beatitude? Why would beatitude favor the future? How does worry or concern about the future get me nearer beatitude?

So we don't just have to frame the present in light of beatitude, but in light of one that has a temporal aspect. It is either sooner or later. So, now, that beatitude becomes entangled in our temporal experience of not really caring about the future as much as we do the present.

Am I nitpicking? I wouldn't tell a hedonistic idolater that they need to have more concern for the future and their long term goals (though that might be true). I would tell them that they need to have more concern for God, or beatitude, or holiness, and that's not the same thing as concern for the future.

If I would do things differently today because I knew beatitude was coming in 24 hours, then that temporal aspect has too much influence on the final end.

But isn't it interesting that the Lord speaks both Luke 12:20 and Matthew 6:25-34 (as well as Luke 14:27-33, which is also relevant)? Sure, the presumptuous procrastinator who plans to "get right with God" late in life is erring, but is his error preferring the present to the future? Heck, maybe it is, I dunno. ^_^

"Keep watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming," strikes me as a rather different admonition than, "Make provision for the far-off future."

...to pick up my earlier point about retirement, there is certainly a way in which our attention should be given to the Lord. So if attentiveness to God is saving for retirement, our monthly paycheck is a measure of our attention, and retirement is beatitude, then maybe some analogy could be drawn. A very concise question is this, does living for the present necessarily mean not-living for God? I'm just not crazy about viewing heaven as a future goal, but I'll set down my pen for now. :D (The odd thing about this conversation is that it's usually the Catholic who says heaven is a laborious future goal and the Protestant who objects. :p)
 
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Mark Quayle

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Mark Quayle said:
The future hope (literally, "expectation") and present blessing are one and the same --Christ.\
Mark Quayle said:
Psalm 73:25 "Whom have I in heaven but You? And being with you, I desire nothing on earth."

What does this look like on the ground, in everyday living?
What does it look like for the Christian to desire nothing on earth? Is the Christian's life going to look radically different than the person who does desire things on earth? Or, is it going to look the same, but with different motivations?

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." I don't really know how else to answer your question except to maybe say that we are to enjoy this life as a gift from him, but IN him.

Or maybe I should say that it looks like another point of view from the usual. (Two good Old Testament heroes I like to point at seemed to have that "other" mentality, so different from most people-- Daniel, and Joseph --so different they were, and so dependent on/ centered on God that the kings of their very captors appointed them both 2nd in their respective kingdoms, trusting them (their own captives) above anyone else.)

This paragraph may seem, perhaps, off point: One phenomenon I have noticed that seems almost backwards: Knowing several long-time Christians as they became elderly, having walked with God more faithfully than I could hope to, I have noticed their intense pleasure in this life, a desire to explore and learn and do things, not as a "bucket list before I die and it is too late" so much as (or so it seems to me) a delight in what God has done and in God's ways of doing things. Likewise, they seemed to love and enjoy the people around them more than I would expect.
 
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public hermit

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First I would say that (1) could be habitual, practical, or myopic. For example, it could be practical in the same sense that a preacher writes a sermon for next Sunday before writing his sermons for October.

Good point. I just think it's pretty much the norm. Yes, we take the future in consideration (maybe I have retirement, change my oil, and work out for long term health). But, generally speaking, our focus is close to the present and diminishes as we go further out. Most of the things I did today have relevance in the near future. I don't mean that as a virtue or vice, but just how it is. When I say we are myopic, I just mean that the usual mode of operation is to focus on the relevant present.

The sense I got from the OP was that there is a vice of procrastination or myopia that prevents us from living for goals that are far in the future.

To some extent it depends on the person. I don't want to say it's a moral failing, so much as a natural state. Unavoidable, perhaps?

This is not completely related, but as a whole, we really don't think much further out than a couple generations. I do think it's an interesting question if we are morally responsible for what we do that adversely effects five generations from now. But, that wasn't really what I was getting at.

The example of saving for retirement comes to mind: someone might fixate on instant gratification, live paycheck to paycheck, and never save for retirement. When retirement age arrives they will be disappointed that they did not sacrifice short term goals for long term goals.

Right, good example. I do think that is a problem. But it was not quite what I was after. Apparently, my OP was not all that clear, haha! ^_^ Honestly, I was reading Mary Midgley's Are You an Illusion? saw the phrase, had a thought, and within ten minutes was writing this OP. So...

I'm not sure we have the ability to set aside a part of our monthly paycheck in order to save for the retirement of heaven.

I agree. I'm not trying to say we should save for heaven.

One reservation I have is this: in saying that it is a temporal goal you are apparently committed to the position that the achievement of this goal requires a certain number of resources, and that the person who lives only for the present isn't properly allocating their resources towards the future goal (much like retirement). Well, what are those resources?

The goal is temporal only in the sense that it is not yet. It is future, but we don't know if it's in the next five seconds or five decades. You intimated earlier that it is both now and not yet (as some often put it). I agree.

But what does it mean to say that the future telos overrides whatever is happening right now?

Take some morally significant situation in the present in which one must choose. The person who believes there is a future telos might respond/choose differently than the one who does not hold that there is a future telos. For the Christian, that future telos is going to be significant in how they make moral decisions in the present. Presumably, the prospect of being face-to-face with the Lord matters in how we live now (Hebrews 12:14).

Now, add to that the natural experience of caring more about the present than the future. The cares of the present can override the main determining factor, i.e. the final end, because so long as we still wait that telos is still in the future. I take this to be common Christian experience, but maybe I'm not explaining it well. Or, maybe I'm confused, haha! :eek: It wouldn't be the first time.

To put it slightly differently, isn't every point of our life equidistant from eternity, and equidistant from beatitude?

Yes it is equidistant, metaphysically speaking, but not in terms of our experience. We experience it in the present as a future event, just like any other future event. Even if we get glimpses of it (e.g. the mutual vision Augustine and Monica experienced at Ostia), we still think of it as future event.

Why would beatitude favor the future? How does worry or concern about the future get me nearer beatitude?

Beatitude doesn't favor the future, but it remains the future for us until it is fully realized.

Worry doesn't get me any closer, but indifference or everyday concerns can take precedence in such a way that I neglect my obligations as someone who has a telos.

Am I nitpicking?

Probably. :p

I would tell them that they need to have more concern for God, or beatitude, or holiness, and that's not the same thing as concern for the future.

It's not the same, but it's not altogether different. As I have been saying there is always a temporal aspect so long as we are in time.

"Keep watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming," strikes me as a rather different admonition than, "Make provision for the far-off future."

Only if you think of "make provision" in grossly material terms. In spiritual terms, aren't we living for a future life? Not earning, but living now on the basis of what will be? Let me put it differently. Shouldn't the prospect of a future beatitude have some bearing on what I do today? And if it does, won't that look different than if I had no future beatitude informing my decisions?

A very concise question is this, does living for the present necessarily mean not-living for God?

Not necessarily, but it can. It can if, practically speaking, I live in the present as if there is no future beatitude. If my day to day transactions and decisions are in no way based on a future end, then am I living for God?

Are we not to be pitied if for this life, and this life only, we have lived in hope? What is "the present" in relation to "this life only"?
 
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