The rapture - some say it is near or past or ongoing

/nvm

The rapture as taught in contemporary Christianity is deceiving, it will be much more like us sheep led to the slaughter i'm afraid.

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BobRyan said:

I have heard recently that some folks think the rapture has started - and is related to a number of people dying.

Not sure why they would say that since the rapture is about resurrecting the righteous dead and translating the living directly to heaven. Not about Christians dying.

Anyone else hearing of this?

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Not about that specifically, but it is a high watch time, having the Feast of Trumpets may have just started, the holiday marked by both being called the feast where no man knows the day or the hour, as well as having a horn blast known as the 'last trump'.

Add to that the Rabbis are proclaiming they are having meetings with their messiah and this is their last new year's without him being revealed, and Trump announcing as many as seven nations seeking to normalize relations with Israel, which is most likely the coming covenant with 'many' their messiah, our antichrist, will confirm. So, yes, I can see how people are discussing it.

It's even possible they are seeking to try to impose fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10-14 with their strangely timed lockdown. That's a passage which states they will see and receive their messiah (whom they say is there already), at a time when all the families will be separated from each other, as if by a quarantine.

ewq1938 said:

I believe you are referring to the pre-trib version of the rapture.

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i don't believe there will be one. The great tribulation is persecuting believers in the Jesus of the word of God, this persecution is ongoing, faith in the God of the bible is attacked from all sides, this will only get worse as the great tribulation increases in power.

All those who believe in a pre-trib rapture will be persecuted for their faith in myths, instead of the word of God, when the suffering gets bad.

Ask yourself this question if Jesus truly came down from heaven to save you from the wicked, laying you to waste, then in what way do you still need to meet Him in the air, for you have already met Him in your heart? What closer could you get?

Scripture is first and foremost a spiritual book. It talks about the world of of our inner being much more than the world around us. The Word talks with spiritual words to the spiritual man. 1 Corinthians 2:13-16. All this looking on the outside has so many believers confused about which enemy we truly fight.

i'll share you a poem of the end times in my inner world of being and the glorious outcome with Jesus at the helm of my heart.

Zion Descending

At first I heard Dad say,
"Son let us make tracks,
its near getting dark now,
the chosen are all asleep,
now would be best,
as darkness reigns its peak,
for arrogance has him blinded,
to what is really going on."

I saw the sunlight darkened,
the moon turn to blood,
and the stars falling from Heaven.
I felt everything shaking in its boots.
I heard about wars and rumours of wars.
I experienced famine and drought,
grand scale living in wantonness,
rulers making a living out of sin,
Satan's forces installed everywhere,
loveless forces ruling untruthfully.

I heard my inner world crying out in her dying pain,
"What is going on?
The Father is leaving us without the Son,
this can only evil mean."
I heard the angels blow the trumpets!
"Woe to the inhabitants of this soul!"

I heard the agonising cries,
coming from underneath the altar,
the dead in God's love, longingly,
awaiting newness of life!
"Yes, oh Lord, pour out their blood as they did ours!"

I heard the thunders rolling throughout my being,
"Let evil brood fear The Truth of God almighty!
Let judgement begin in The House of God!"

I knew judgement had already began,
when I beheld those massive hails stones,
tumbling down on the heads of the wicked.
I watched my enemies flee in terror!
Scorpion stings burning wrong,
horse hooves kicking up dirt,
truthfulness uncovering shame,
honesty baring nakedness,
the dung of the earth warring,
lies sores causing agony,
pestilence threatening,
as grasshoppers devoured,
my enemies food and good life!

It was fascinating to see,
how weak those are...,
.....so strong in lies!

Yes, honest!
Loving truth is like that!
The freedom to be,
true to yourself,
both in good and bad,
in His love to be.

Oh the release of faith!
Heart rendering awe!
Shouts of glorious praise!
Jumping joy - pure ecstasy!
Glorying in God almighty,
my life's tormentors died,
perishing one after the other.

Seeing Jesus on His white horse,
a blazing sword coming out of His mouth,
His all conquering loving truth
my inner world of being to reap.
Casting dead what is so good to have gone,
raising alive that which I had lost,
bringing new life at each dawn,
His kingdom ruling my world of being,
His presence bringing rest and peace.

Time and again He comes past like this,
(terrorising the wicked agonising their mates demise,)
as all His wheels turn into place.
The Word alive in heavenly love.
Costly gifts descending from above.
beholding the temple of the most high,
the truth of His love Himself my Zion.

On a day we don't know and can't predict, Christ our Lord will return in glory as judge of the living and the dead. And on that day the dead shall be raised, and at that time those still living will join them, being transformed with them--"this mortal must put on immortality" et al--and we will be caught up to meet the returning, glorious, victorious King who brings judgment. Then, as we read, Christ will deliver all things to the Father, there will be a new heavens and a new earth, and God will be all in all. Unto the ages of ages.

If by "rapture" we mean the catching up of the resurrected dead and living saints to meet the returning Lord as He descends, then that's fine. This is what Scripture teaches.

But if by "rapture" we mean a sudden vanishing of Christians from the world, well that is pure fiction.

-CryptoLutheran

ewq1938 said:

At all?

I believe in a Rapture because Paul spoke of it using the Greek word for Rapture, Harpazo.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (HARPAZO) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.




Physically in the new immortal body one will literally be raptured up to the clouds and stand next to him. That's something special and more of a tangible experience than meeting him in your heart.

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Sure i believe that Jesus will come and safe us when the universe collapses and the end of time as we know it has come. Not pre-trib, or post trib, but rather at the end of the thousand year kingdom. When everything will be laid bare from the beginning of time until now. That time is a long way of yet for Christ's kingdom hasn't even come on this earth yet. i'm awaiting His reign here on earth through His Church more than i await being raptured.

ewq1938 said:

That's the same thing. The rapture ie: "the catching up of the resurrected dead and living saints to meet the returning Lord as He descends" will be a sudden vanishing of those same people. It simply doesn't happen prior to the start of the GT nor are they gone for a long period of time but they will vanish and leave the Earth for an unknown but short time.

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Where does Scripture say that anyone vanishes and is gone for an unknown but short time?

-CryptoLutheran

ewq1938 said:

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

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That we go up to meet the Lord in the air isn't the contentious issue. The contentious issue is the vanishing part. And 1 Thessalonians ch. 4 doesn't say that anyone suddenly vanishes. It says we go up to meet the Lord in the air.

If you drive up to my house and I go out to meet you as you approach my home, I haven't vanished.

-CryptoLutheran

BobRyan said:

I have heard recently that some folks think the rapture has started - and is related to a number of people dying.

Not sure why they would say that since the rapture is about resurrecting the righteous dead and translating the living directly to heaven. Not about Christians dying.

Anyone else hearing of this?

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I have been thinking this for a while now.

This world seems so devoid of love (social distancing, masks), that I believe those who have died have been spared (or are somewhere so much better than here).

I also have been "Mandela Effect-ed" too, so there's that silliness.

I believe in the second coming of Christ.

BobRyan said:

I have heard recently that some folks think the rapture has started - and is related to a number of people dying.

Not sure why they would say that since the rapture is about resurrecting the righteous dead and translating the living directly to heaven. Not about Christians dying.

Anyone else hearing of this?

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Oh, yeah. People have been saying that for the last 2000 years. Paul said in one place, "Who, concerning the Truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some." 2Timothy 2:18. But, you're right, the rapture and resurrection of the righteous will happen at Jesus' 2nd coming. Since that hasn't happened yet, it's obvious the rapture hasn't happened yet either.

HopeInJesusOnly said:

I have been thinking this for a while now.

This world seems so devoid of love (social distancing, masks), that I believe those who have died have been spared (or are somewhere so much better than here).

I also have been "Mandela Effect-ed" too, so there's that silliness.

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Wouldn't social distancing and wearing a mask--out of concern for other people--be love rather than the lack of love?

I wear a mask and I stay apart from others because of concern for their safety and well-being. It's being socially conscious and having compassion for our neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Wouldn't social distancing and wearing a mask--out of concern for other people--be love rather than the lack of love?

I wear a mask and I stay apart from others because of concern for their safety and well-being. It's being socially conscious and having compassion for our neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

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In upside down world, yes. Six feet apart, six feet under.

Remember: You are keeping your distance due to a virus. A virus!

You know how I would show love? Hugs and kisses. Touch is very important for humans. So is human connection (the opposite of distancing).

But it's all a matter of perspective. I can see your point of view. In these times there is no other choice....and to me, that's hellish.

But I live alone. You are likely surrounded by loved ones who you can touch and feel.