Not everything has an absolute answer. I agree with what he said, but based on bald women and men with long hair, there is a congruity between a persons appearance and their genitals.
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Question for the Ladies, Men Can Answer as well if they want to
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Not everything has an absolute answer. I agree with what he said, but based on bald women and men with long hair, there is a congruity between a persons appearance and their genitals.
Other women sexually objectified them in an identical manner as some men would.
For some reason, "sexual liberation" for women looks an awful lot like what they decry in men.
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That's why if there is a discongruity between feeling and appearance, it's called a dysphoria instead of a euphoria. But I'm sure there will be pressure eventually to drop that term and just call it "normal."
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That supports what I said about a congruity between appearance and anatomy. Thats why people who have long hair to the point it evokes a discongruity between appearance and feeling leaves an impression on people. Its similar to how gotquestions.org says androgynous behavior draws undue attention to gender.
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Regarding what you said about makeup and royalty, that supports what I said about there being distinct male and female/masculine features that only people have. Animals arent really male or female.
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I wouldn't go that far. I'd say the great apes have a concept of gender. Many other animals probably to do, just in a more limited factor.
Many other animals have a neotenous evolutionarily paths, although I think it largely depends on which sex adds more pressure for physical attractiveness. Humans are rare in that men tend to be more concerned with looks in a female than the other way around. Fortunately for us, this pathway of neotenous ape morphology gave us larger skulls and likely contributed to us being hyper intelligent and creative compared to other animals. I know birds are sometimes referred to as neotenous dinosaurs. For their size some birds are amazingly intelligent creatures.
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How is their concept of gender more limited? Do you think that supports what I said? What you said about looks supports what I said about women and men look different and transgenders having a distinct look supports what I said about while gender isnt about appearence or anatomy itself, it obviously is connected and as a functional physical concept that is what gender functions as.
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There was a study a while back in which a selection of gender-intended children's toys were distributed to chimpanzees. All of the chimpanzees, male and female, were initially interested in the "boy's toys" (toy trucks). But only the female chimpanzees were interested in the toy dolls, and the female chimpanzees continued to be interested in the toy dolls for considerably longer than either was interested in the toy trucks.
It seems like for each genus there is a "normal" ratio of brain mass to body mass, but if one species of the genus has even a slightly greater percentage of brain above that normal ratio, it becomes an amazing "genius." Crows and certain other black birds, for instance, have only a slightly greater brain to body mass ratio compared to pigeons...but are incredibly more intelligent, and more intelligent than many animals with much greater absolute brain mass.
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Well I do not see how it wouldn't be for animals with lower intelligence and thus theory of mind and concept of self.
Honestly Sammy, I'm not really sure what you are talking about half the time. Seems like you had trans people in mind with many of your posts here while I did not. We are probably talking past each other. As far as me I believe gender has an outward and inward component. Like I said earlier what evolved on the outside probably matched to evolve what is on the inside. Mainly neotenous and non-neotenous cues for a the male side. If you agree with what i just said, I guess we're probably on the same page.
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Theory of mind and a concept of self. Does that debunk what I said about people have more gender dimorphism?
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I believe that the inward component is not seperate from the outward conponent. Some people who became transgender became transgender because of bad experiences, which is not distinct also from a persons outward appearence. I believe the outward component is both inward and outward.
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The reason the Bible says things like men having long hair is a shame and not a glory is because, I believe the outward component is both inward and outward. Everything has a design and a purpose.
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I thought Samson had long hair was was punished for it by losing his strength when he cut it off?
Short hair and long hair being gendered is more cultural than biological. Plenty of men sport short hair and do not do it to feel "feminine". Especially glorious Viking hair, lol. Men's hair naturally grows long when not cut, I don't see it as a female thing. The color blue being associated with boys and pink for girls is a social construct. Although the need to separate things from male to female probably comes from biological urges.
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So hair length and gender colors have to do with sperm and eggs?
Samson was under the Nazarine vow.
Just because it naturally grows long doesnt mean keeping it that way is normal. Men have nipples because of biological reasons connected to females. Even Christians who dont believe in evolution think that.
FDR having a pink dress doesnt mean it generally is feminine or that them dressing him that way wasnt wierd.
People who became transgender due to being told things like you dont act like a boy, that supports what I said about gender as a functional concept is about appearence and anatomy.
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Hair Length in the Bible
So people recognizing other people as male or female comes from biological urges and or social construct and is more cultural than biological? Im not disagreeing im just asking how do you think the functional concept of gender works.
Often, Christians read 1Co 11:4 and think that one is dishonoring his OWN head, but remember that the word 'head' is referred to in two different ways in these passages. There is the head your hair grows on, and there is a head that is an authority figure. In context, when Paul says "dishonoureth his head," he is not referring to one's own head, but rather, to the authority figure over oneself, meaning that if a man goes to God in prayer and/or prophesying (rebuking from Scripture) with long hair, he refuses to revere and submit to the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Read "Is the One-Pastor Church System Biblical?" here at creationliberty.com for more details about the role of a prophet.)
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
-1 Corinthians 11:5
Here, we have a similar situation for women; if she prays or rebukes from Scripture with short hair, then she dishonors her head, which is the man, and because the head of man is Christ, she in turn refuses to revere and submit to the Lord Jesus Christ. Hair length is not about efficiency. When a man cuts his hair, he is submitting to Christ, and when a woman keeps her hair long, she is submitting to Christ.
I've heard people give their opinions for many years about how they like certain lengths of hair on men or women, but our opinions and feelings are IRRELEVANT to this topic. The focus of the Scripture here is submission to Christ in our actions.
At the end of verse five, if a woman cuts her hair short enough that it does not cover her head, it's the same as if she shaved her head.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1 Corinthians 11:6
Paul is proving a point here, saying that if the woman has her hair short enough not to cover her head, then she might as well shave it all off at that point because it has lost its true purpose, but almost all the women I've ever seen or talked to are embarrassed to have their head shaved. And that's the second point he's making in the second half of the verse, that if she is ashamed of having her head shaved, then let it be long enough to cover her head.
For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
-1 Corinthians 11:7-9
God was not created for man (He is not created at all; He's eternal), but man was created for God. Christ was not created for the Church (He is not created at all; He's eternal), but the Church was created for Christ. And man did not come from woman, but a piece of Adam was taken to create Eve as a helpmeet, therefore the woman should be in submission to the man's authority (or head) over herself, and by doing so, she is in submission to Christ.
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
-1 Corinthians 11:10
Because there are so many false converts in the new-age church buildings around America, this verse has been misinterpreted to mean all sorts of wild things. The power being referred to here is not "power in hair," but power in the authority she submits unto, which is Christ.
Concerning the angels, remember that the mainstream media interpretation of heaven, where angels are just floating around with harps, is not true.
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
-Hebrews 1:10-14
Angels do not minister to those who reject Christ; those who refuse to submit to His authority, and thus, angels will minister to those born-again women who have submitted to the authority over them. Even when she submits to the authority of her husband when he does wrong, she is not held accountable for that, and is protected by the ministering angels unseen.
As women are reminded of their place, so too men are reminded of theirs:
Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
-1 Corinthians 11:11-12
Each of us need to remember the position we are in by examining ourselves first and foremost:
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
-2 Corinthians 13:5
Women: You are to be reminded that you were created for man to be a helpmeet.
Men: You are to be reminded that woman brought you forth in travailing pain.
But most importantly, we are to be reminded that all things are set this way by God.
For by him [Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
-Colossians 1:16
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
-Romans 14:11-12
Paul continues:
Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
-1 Corinthians 11:13-14
Paul is asking questions here to get us to reason these things out and muse on them, which is why he says "judge in yourselves." The word "nature" has many different meanings, and in our society in America today, we often think it to be with animals and plants, but nature in this context refers to the appearance of things, or in other words, as we witness men and women in society.
When men grow their hair long it becomes a point of ridicule because it's effeminate.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate... shall inherit the kingdom of God.
-1 Corinthians 6:9-10
But when women grow it long, it becomes a point of beauty, which is why Paul continues to say:
But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory [beauty]to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
-1 Corinthians 11:15
Paul mentions broided (braided) hair length for women:
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
-1 Timothy 2:9
Peter also mentions the "plaiting" hair length:
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
-1 Peter 3:1-5
Plaiting means braiding in this context; meaning women who are trying to style their hair in fancy ways to impress, instead of impressing by conversation in the Word of God. I know some women get an attitude when reading these things, but it does not say it is of high value to men; it says the meek and quiet spirit is of high value to the Lord Jesus Christ. One cannot plait (braid) her hair unless she has hair long enough to do that, reinforcing that women ought to keep their hair long to be in submission to God.
How long is long enough? No one is saying you need to grow your hair down to your ankles, but as long as your hair can cover your head, from the top to your chin, it should be acceptable, but if you're not sure, you can't go wrong with shoulder-length, which is long enough to braid.
As Christians, born-again in Christ, understanding precept upon precept, it should be basic understanding and simple reasoning that would tell us that men ought to have short hair, and women ought to have long hair, but it is not out of reason and understanding that men and women reject Paul's teaching here. They reject it out of pride and rebellion, and become contentious.
But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
-1 Corinthians 11:16
In the Body of Christ, we do not carry on contention, especially over issues so clearly spelled out, like men cutting their hair. If any man is going to call himself "brethren in Christ," and refuses to cut his hair, he's being rebellious and contentious against the Word of God, and he is not worthy of being part of the church of God because he rejects Christ's authority over his life and bickers with Christians over it.
The problem is not when the secular world does these things, because they are not born-again in Christ and it's typically what we expect them to do. But people who call themselves Christians and won't address the very simple issues of their hair are rebelling against the Word of God.
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
-1 Samuel 15:23
If we lived in a world without scissors or other sharp objects to cut our hair with, I could understand Christian men having long hair, but thankfully, that's not the case. Again, this issue comes down to authority, not fashion.
NOTE: You are not going to hell because you didn't cut your hair the right way. We are not saved of works. You don't go to hell because you drank alcohol. You don't go to hell because you celebrated Christmas. However, these actions reject the authority of Christ over our lives, and if we are His children, He will chasten us for those things, and with chastening comes punishment.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
-Revelation 3:19
We can bring curses into our own lives because we refuse to follow God's Word. And if you aren't getting chastened for what you're doing wrong, consider that you may not be a child of God.
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
-Hebrews 12:8
Not only are there preachers and teachers out there, men with long hair and women with short hair, leading by rebellious example, but they also directly teach false doctrine in attempt to justify themselves.
Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The LORD hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie. Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will cast thee from off the face of the earth: this year thou shalt die, because thou hast taught rebellion against the LORD.
-Jeremiah 28:15-16
For example, a website called "godwords.org" teaches women it's acceptable to God to have short hair:
"Paul�s instructions had nothing to do with cutting your hair, and everything to do with living in Corinth... Paul didn't teach that women should have long hair. He taught, as was the custom of the day, that women should cover their heads while praying or prophesying."
-Tony Scialdone, "Should Christian Women Have Long Hair?" GodWords, Nov 5, 2013, retrieved Apr 15, 2015, [godwords.org/950/should-christian-women-have-long-hair]
As you can see, this author (Tony) states that Paul didn't teach anything about long hair on women, but we just read 1Co 11:15 that mentions that her hair is given to her for a covering, that same covering the author's talking about when Paul mentions women praying or prophesying. In his teaching, Tony only quotes from 1Co 11:5, and quotes nothing else in the chapter -- he only quotes from it to take one verse out of its context, which is a very common strategy you'll see when reading false teachers like this.
Another strategy Tony uses is common among those who try to justify men with long hair and women with short hair, they refer back to the Nazarite vow. Ignoring that he refers to the wrong location in Scripture, and that he uses a new-age "bible" version, Tony is trying to quote from Numbers 6:
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD... All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.
-Numbers 6:1-5
-John 7:24
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There is a male or a female look. Thats why I believe that gender functions as appearance and anatomy combined.
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I don't know what that is, lol.
Maybe not normally culturally, but biologically it is.
We live in a society that largely at least on the gender critical side argues that everything is pretty much a social construct. If we want to be taken seriously we shouldn't list things like hair length and gender them. While I do not agree with feminists on most things, some aspects are just cultural constructs.
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