Traditionalist and non-traditionalist Catholics

Dansiph

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Well if you're in love with the Douay Rheims edition you're in good company. I don't loving it though, I find modern editions such as New American Bible and CTS to be more suitable to my english skills as its my third language. I bought a copy of the Douay Rheims edition a few years back, but it's hard for me to enjoy it and understand it properly.

As for TLM vs Novus Ordo, I'll recommend that you go to both of them. They're both beautiful in their own ways. The former is very rich in symbolism and has a certain reverence to it that you won't finds elsewhere (in my opinion), and the latter is quite beautiful in its simplicity.
I come from a KJV background so I'm used to the older language. Also English is my native language so I undertand your point about the difficulty. The Bible suits an older style in my opinion. Is it not possible to get an an older translation in your native language?

I've only been reading the Douay Rheims on an app on my phone, I haven't bought one yet.

I will attend both. Hopefully in the not too distant future.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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I come from a KJV background so I'm used to the older language. Also English is my native language so I undertand your point about the difficulty. The Bible suits an older style in my opinion. Is it not possible to get an an older translation in your native language?

I've only been reading the Douay Rheims on an app on my phone, I haven't bought one yet.

I will attend both. Hopefully in the not too distant future.

Oh yes, it's quite possible as my bookshelf shows :D
As a norwegian however I'm left with lutheran editions as no catholic reprint has been published in decades - hence my English collection of catholic bibles.

Tell us about your experiences afterwards - I'm eager to know :)
 
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Dansiph

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Oh yes, it's quite possible as my bookshelf shows :D
As a norwegian however I'm left with lutheran editions as no catholic reprint has been published in decades - hence my English collection of catholic bibles.

Tell us about your experiences afterwards - I'm eager to know :)
I will let you know. :)
 
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pdudgeon

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I have not seen a more accurate post on the CF website in many moons, Stabat.......

which is one of the main reasons that I have mostly learned to keep silent on the subject. (that, and so I won't get tossed off the site.) I've found that Traditional Catholics are tolerated (barely) here only if they self-muzzle all their opinions on the practice of their faith.

The best source that I've found for information and support for Traditional Catholics is "The Remnant" newspaper (published bi-weekly since 1967). They also have an online edition. Michael J. Matt is the editor.
Archbishop Vigano is one of the modern day spokespersons for the movement, and a very courageous priest he is!
 
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trulytheone

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which is one of the main reasons that I have mostly learned to keep silent on the subject. (that, and so I won't get tossed off the site.) I've found that Traditional Catholics are tolerated (barely) here only if they self-muzzle all their opinions on the practice of their faith.

The best source that I've found for information and support for Traditional Catholics is "The Remnant" newspaper (published bi-weekly since 1967). They also have an online edition. Michael J. Matt is the editor.
Archbishop Vigano is one of the modern day spokespersons for the movement, and a very courageous priest he is!
I feel you. In fact, I hold to views probably more reactionary than yours on Vatican II, the popes after the council, and on politics here in the Philippine setting.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I come from a KJV background so I'm used to the older language. Also English is my native language so I undertand your point about the difficulty. The Bible suits an older style in my opinion. Is it not possible to get an an older translation in your native language?

I've only been reading the Douay Rheims on an app on my phone, I haven't bought one yet.

I will attend both. Hopefully in the not too distant future.
As to Bibles, you have many choices. The best one is the one you use and can understand. I have been using the RSVCE, the Revised Standard Version (Protestant) Catholic Edition. It has all the books and now is even available in a study Bible version with extensive notes. I am looking at the much newer ESV, which is also available in a Catholic edition.

The Douay Bible is good but difficult because English has changed a bit since then. The Challoner Bible is also good. The Jerusalem Bible OK and the New American Bible OK. That's the one I used the most in the past. Point is we don't have one single translation you have to lock in to.
 
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pdudgeon

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I feel you. In fact, I hold to views probably more reactionary than yours on Vatican II, the popes after the council, and on politics here in the Philippine setting.
Two peas in a pod. But our beliefs will be vindicated in the future.
Wheat and tares, wheat and tares. We are seeing it daily.
 
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Dansiph

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which is one of the main reasons that I have mostly learned to keep silent on the subject. (that, and so I won't get tossed off the site.) I've found that Traditional Catholics are tolerated (barely) here only if they self-muzzle all their opinions on the practice of their faith.

The best source that I've found for information and support for Traditional Catholics is "The Remnant" newspaper (published bi-weekly since 1967). They also have an online edition. Michael J. Matt is the editor.
Archbishop Vigano is one of the modern day spokespersons for the movement, and a very courageous priest he is!
I've been hearing the name Vigano quite a bit and recently Fr Altman. The thing is I see both sides of the argument as having valid points. Part of the reason for this post was to find a balance.
 
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Dansiph

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As to Bibles, you have many choices. The best one is the one you use and can understand. I have been using the RSVCE, the Revised Standard Version (Protestant) Catholic Edition. It has all the books and now is even available in a study Bible version with extensive notes. I am looking at the much newer ESV, which is also available in a Catholic edition.

The Douay Bible is good but difficult because English has changed a bit since then. The Challoner Bible is also good. The Jerusalem Bible OK and the New American Bible OK. That's the one I used the most in the past. Point is we don't have one single translation you have to lock in to.
The Catholic ESV might be interesting. I like the DR though and plan to use it. For me the Douay Rheims is slightly easier than the KJV except some words seem strange. They used bless instead of curse in Job 1 and also they use the word holocaust for a burnt offering. I'm assuming the meaning has changed.

Anyway, I've only ever used the KJV so I don't have trouble with the DR. Another Bible I keep hearing mentioned is the Catholic Knox Bible?
 
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Dansiph

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The Catholic ESV might be interesting. I like the DR though and plan to use it. For me the Douay Rheims is slightly easier than the KJV except some words seem strange. They used bless instead of curse in Job 1 and also they use the word holocaust for a burnt offering. I'm assuming the meaning has changed.

Anyway, I've only ever used the KJV so I don't have trouble with the DR. Another Bible I keep hearing mentioned is the Catholic Knox Bible?
(KJV) Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

(DR) Job 1:5 And when the days of their feasting were gone about, Job sent to them, and sanctified them: and rising up early, offered holocausts for every one of them. For he said: Lest perhaps my sons have sinned, and have blessed God in their hearts. So did Job all days.
 
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Gnarwhal

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Even with non-religious stuff I like anything with history and tradition. But Novus Ordo or what I understand of it appeals to me. However the church I'm probably going to attend has an option at 3:00pm for a Latin Mass. I also like the language used in the Douay Rheims if that's of any importance?

I'm like you, I place a high value on tradition and ritual both religious and secular. We live in an iconoclastic age when those things are viewed as primitive, restrictive, or otherwise meaningless.

I think you may really like the Tridentine Mass. The thing to remember with the Latin Mass is it's not exactly important for us to know and understand everything that's said because the priest is offering the sacrifice on all of our behalf. His inaudible prayers are for God, not for us to hear. The Latin responses that the laypeople do have—don't worry about participating in those at first, just take in the experience and see what it's like.

If the idea of the Novus Ordo appeals to you because, perhaps, of the usage of the vernacular, you might be interested in the Anglican Ordinariate. It's a niche within the Catholic Church for parishes that are fully in communion with Rome but they've retained their Anglo liturgical heritage. Basically it means Rome took the Anglican liturgy, went through it in detail, and removed any theological and liturgical errors that were there. So the result is essentially a Tridentine Mass in Elizabethan English.

The English liturgical tradition is a really grand treasure, so it's a nice additional option for the Catholic Church to have alongside her liturgical crown jewel (the TLM) and the various Eastern liturgies that are celebrated as well.

I see you're in the UK, so if you think you'd be interested in something like that you would want to check out the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham, which is like a non-geographical diocese of parishes that are part of the Anglican Ordinariate. You might have one near you, which would be awesome.
 
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Dansiph

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I'm like you, I place a high value on tradition and ritual both religious and secular. We live in an iconoclastic age when those things are viewed as primitive, restrictive, or otherwise meaningless.

I think you may really like the Tridentine Mass. The thing to remember with the Latin Mass is it's not exactly important for us to know and understand everything that's said because the priest is offering the sacrifice on all of our behalf. His inaudible prayers are for God, not for us to hear. The Latin responses that the laypeople do have—don't worry about participating in those at first, just take in the experience and see what it's like.

If the idea of the Novus Ordo appeals to you because, perhaps, of the usage of the vernacular, you might be interested in the Anglican Ordinariate. It's a niche within the Catholic Church for parishes that are fully in communion with Rome but they've retained their Anglo liturgical heritage. Basically it means Rome took the Anglican liturgy, went through it in detail, and removed any theological and liturgical errors that were there. So the result is essentially a Tridentine Mass in Elizabethan English.

The English liturgical tradition is a really grand treasure, so it's a nice additional option for the Catholic Church to have alongside her liturgical crown jewel (the TLM) and the various Eastern liturgies that are celebrated as well.

I see you're in the UK, so if you think you'd be interested in something like that you would want to check out the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham, which is like a non-geographical diocese of parishes that are part of the Anglican Ordinariate. You might have one near you, which would be awesome.
Yeah people often dismiss thousands of years of the historical ways of doing things. Often people realise the old way was better after enough time though.

I plan on going to a Latin Mass first. The thing is I heard that the RCIA isn't as common in churches with the TLM? Maybe I misunderstood. I like the idea of RCIA.

I did worry about not understanding so thanks for explaining. I caught a livestream of the man I mentioned earlier in this thread called Taylor Marshall and he prays in Latin and encourages people to learn it.

Thanks. I just checked that groups website and the map is filled with locations except there's a big blank space where my city is lol. I'm from Liverpool which is England's most Catholic city so I'm surprised at that.

Someone mentioned to me a while back this group: Locations where the FSSP offers Holy Mass regularly in the United Kingdom & Ireland - FSSP UK

I think it was @thecolorsblend
 
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chevyontheriver

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I've been hearing the name Vigano quite a bit and recently Fr Altman. The thing is I see both sides of the argument as having valid points. Part of the reason for this post was to find a balance.
Take Vigano with a grain of salt. He does have good things to say though.
 
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chevyontheriver

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The Catholic ESV might be interesting. I like the DR though and plan to use it. For me the Douay Rheims is slightly easier than the KJV except some words seem strange. They used bless instead of curse in Job 1 and also they use the word holocaust for a burnt offering. I'm assuming the meaning has changed.

Anyway, I've only ever used the KJV so I don't have trouble with the DR. Another Bible I keep hearing mentioned is the Catholic Knox Bible?
I forgot about the Knox Bible. Very good. I have enjoyed reading it. If you have access to one, by all means read it.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I plan on going to a Latin Mass first. The thing is I heard that the RCIA isn't as common in churches with the TLM? Maybe I misunderstood. I like the idea of RCIA.
There are alternate ways of entering the Catholic Church other than RCIA. RCIA is actually intended for those never baptized. Those who have already been baptized and are prayerful Protestants seeking to become Catholic can enter via other routes. So maybe some more traditional Catholic churches use the other means. I know my wife entered after meeting with a priest about ten times. No RCIA.

BUT RCIA has it's advantages. You cover a lot of territory and that's good. You have time to contemplate your entrance into the Church and not get rushed into it.

In any event, be sure you get good detailed information and formation before you join. The 'formation' is just as significant as the information.
 
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Dansiph

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There are alternate ways of entering the Catholic Church other than RCIA. RCIA is actually intended for those never baptized. Those who have already been baptized and are prayerful Protestants seeking to become Catholic can enter via other routes. So maybe some more traditional Catholic churches use the other means. I know my wife entered after meeting with a priest about ten times. No RCIA.

BUT RCIA has it's advantages. You cover a lot of territory and that's good. You have time to contemplate your entrance into the Church and not get rushed into it.

In any event, be sure you get good detailed information and formation before you join. The 'formation' is just as significant as the information.
I've actually never been Baptised. I was set to attend a Baptist church when they closed due to the Corona virus. Which is actually pretty good because I might have never started to consider Catholicism. The advantages of the RCIA are why I like the idea of it.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I've actually never been Baptised. I was set to attend a Baptist church when they closed due to the Corona virus. Which is actually pretty good because I might have never started to consider Catholicism. The advantages of the RCIA are why I like the idea of it.
I see. Then if you have the option for the whole RCIA experience it may be good for you. But what you really want is a faithful process no matter what it's called or how long it takes. Ask lots of questions. The thing about Catholicism is that you can ask questions and if you wait for the long answer it will satisfy.
 
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Dansiph

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I see. Then if you have the option for the whole RCIA experience it may be good for you. But what you really want is a faithful process no matter what it's called or how long it takes. Ask lots of questions. The thing about Catholicism is that you can ask questions and if you wait for the long answer it will satisfy.
Yeah I'm sort of learning as much as I can about Catholicism but I think it might be best to just contact a Church.

I do worry sometimes because I haven't been baptised. I also have done what Catholics consider mortal sins. What if I die before I can become Catholic or confess etc? I read online that if it's my intention to do both and if I am repentant for my sin I should trust the mercy of God. I am repentant and have prayed for forgiveness but it's still a worry.
 
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