Null/Voided Out

rockytopva · Sep 13, 2020

It is important, for the sake of spirituality, that we divide the man into three parts… Physical, Spiritual, and Intellectual. If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2
Mental E/c2 - Our thinking can produce creativeness, light, and good things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

The Natural E/c2 in the form of mass produces a gravity that attracts other objects
The Intellectual E/c2 produces a gravity that draws us to study
The Spiritual E/c2 also has a gravity that draws and makes religion attractive

This people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men. - Isaiah 29:13
And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul. - Psalms 106:15

It is possible to...

1. Have the mental doctrine down pat
2. Have a structured worship system

And still have little spiritual life.

rockytopva · Sep 13, 2020

rockytopva said:
It is important, for the sake of spirituality, that we divide the man into three parts… Physical, Spiritual, and Intellectual. If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2
Mental E/c2 - Our thinking can produce creativeness, light, and good things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

The Natural E/c2 in the form of mass produces a gravity that attracts other objects
The Intellectual E/c2 produces a gravity that draws us to study
The Spiritual E/c2 also has a gravity that draws and makes religion attractive

This people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men. - Isaiah 29:13
And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul. - Psalms 106:15

It is possible to...

1. Have the mental doctrine down pat
2. Have a structured worship system

And still have little spiritual life.

I heard a minister pause in his sermon, and then make the comment, “some people have the strangest love!” This is true! It is an amazing thing with some who have the Bible and doctrine down pat but there is no warmth to accompany their definition of love.

I was eating at a restaurant one evening last week and this lady pauses for a chat. On discussing religion she told me that as a little girl she fell in the mud. Having no time her mother threw some pants on her. The minister of the church calls her down and condemns her before the church. Even though that happened twenty or more years ago she remembered every word and then told me something to the effect that she was through with church.

rockytopva · Sep 13, 2020

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - 1 John 1:5

Unfortunately, though, the light and the darkness interact here on planet Earth. The opposite of E/c2 would be z (absolute zero)/ c (darkness)...

Natural z/d - Nothing, empty space.
Mental z/d - Again nothing but empty space.
Spiritual z/d - z (laziness, coldness, hatred) / d (fear, despair, greed, sorrow)

I also worry that the isolation encouraged by COVID is also spreading the darkness with it.

klutedavid · Sep 13, 2020

Soyeong said:
While we are free analyze things and create whatever categories that we want to place God's laws into, that does not establish that any of the authors of the Bible ever used those categories. For example, I could categorize God's laws based on which part of the body is most commonly used to follow or break them, such as the hand being used to commit theft, but if I were try to insert my categories back into the Bible in order to create my own doctrines out of them as you have done with your categories even though the authors of the Bible never used them, then I would also run into error. The way that you have categorized God's laws implies that it is moral to disobey ceremonial and civil laws, but there are no examples in the Bible of it being moral to disobey any of God's laws. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws.

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the law and warned those who would relax the least part of the law or teach others to do the same, so you are calling him a liar and disregarding his warning. Likewise, Paul said in Romans 3:31 that our faith does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, yet you are trying to use his words to say the opposite. Instructions for how to act in accordance with the nature of the God of Israel can't be abolished without first abolishing the God of Israel, so that is Whom you are trying to say is no more.

In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves following God's law, so while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, God's eternal law did not become obsolete along with it. It was sinful to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, and after it has become obsolete, so there is nothing about any number of covenants being made or becoming obsolete which changes which actions are righteous or sinful or that causes any of God's eternal laws to become obsolete.

At not point in Paul's example from the law in Romans 7:1-4 was the women ever set free from being required to obey any of God's laws, so there is nothing in these verses that leads to the conclusion that in the same way all of God's laws are no more.

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's law, but contrasted that with the law of sin that held him captive, and in 7:6, Paul described us as being set free from a law that held us captive, so he was speaking about the law of sin, not speaking against the Law of God that he delighted in obeying.

God's laws are not handwriting of ordinances that were against us, but rather they were given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). Whenever someone was crucified, the people would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This served as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of the Torah being nailed to the cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of the laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160).

Verse 22 describes what Paul was speaking about as being after the commandments and doctrines of men, so why are you trying to use these verses to make Paul out to be speak against the commandments of God? In case you've forgotten, Paul was not an enemy of God.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so Ephesians 2:15 couldn't be referring to any of God's laws. God did not make any mistakes when the law was given, so He had no need to abolish His own eternal laws. Furthermore, God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

Do you think that that the author of Hebrews or the Jerusalem Council or anyone in the NT had the authority to countermand God? In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from God's law, so you should be quicker to think that someone who tried to do that has sinned and needs to repent than to follow someone who tries to do that. In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His law, so God simply did not give His people any room to follow anyone who does that. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded. I don't think the author of Hebrews or or the Jerusalem Council ever spoke against anyone obeying any of God's laws, but if you do, then you should disregard everything they said in favor of obeying God instead. When God has commanded something and you think someone spoke against obeying what God has commanded, then it shouldn't be difficult for you to figure out which one has the higher authority and which one you should follow.

Roughly 80% of the men in the US as circumcised and in a Acts 16:3, Paul had Timothy circumcised, so do you think that Galatians 5:2 is saying that Christ is of no value to us?

In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become justified, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the problem was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose for which God commanded it. So the Jerusalem Council upheld God's law by correctly ruling against that requirement and a ruling against requiring something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against requiring what God has commanded. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles to obey God's law, as if obedience to God were somehow a negative thing, but rather his problem was with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.

You continue to mistake things that were only said against obeying man as being against obeying God. In Colossians 2:16-23, Paul described the people who were judging them as teaching human traditions and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so they were being judged by pagans. This means that the Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God.

If the way to act in accordance with God's nature were to change when the New Covenant was made, then God's nature would not be eternal, but it is eternal, therefore Hebrews 7:12 is not speaking about changes to the content of God's eternal law, such as with it becoming righteous to commit idolatry or sinful to help the poor. Rather, the context is speaking about a change in the priesthood, which would also require a change in the law in regard to its administration.

The way to act in accordance with God's nature is straightforwardly based on God's nature, not on any particular covenant, and God's nature is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to express His nature are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any. For example, it was sinful to commit adultery before God made any covenants with man, and will always be sinful no matter how many covenants God makes, so it's not something that arbitrarily changes from contract to contract. Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, and he did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word and by example, but rather the New Covenant still involves following Gods law (Jeremiah 31:33). It is up for people to look at the law that Jesus taught by word and by example and to decide whether to become his follower.

Hello Soyeong.

Can you read the following paragraph from Acts and answer the question below?

Acts 15:10-11
Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

What is the 'yoke' which the Jews could not bear?

Scott Husted · Sep 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
That's interesting. How so?

The Bible starts out with the process involving the soul, which Jesus put the highest premium on and by inference the only thing one could give for it. The (first) commandment kept costs you your soul, which Jesus indemnified in the temptation in the wilderness following a pattern laid out from the beginning.

Fall on the rock or the rock falls on you ...

Soyeong · Sep 13, 2020

klutedavid said:
Hello Soyeong.

Can you read the following paragraph from Acts and answer the question below?

Acts 15:10-11
Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

What is the 'yoke' which the Jews could not bear?

In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, so which do you believe:

1.) God was right in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 and the Jerusalem Council was wrong in Acts 15:10-11.

2.) God was wrong in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 and the Jerusalem Council was right in Acts 15:10-11.

3.) They are both right, but are not both speaking about God's law.

My vote is with #3. Furthermore, the Psalms express an extremely positive view of God's law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of God's law, then we will share it, as Paul did (Romans 7:22). For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who...delight in the law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night. We can't believe in the truth of these words while not allowing them to shape our view of God's law, so the view that the Psalms are Scripture is incompatible with the view that God's law is a burden that no one can bear.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 13, 2020

Soyeong said:
While we are free analyze things and create whatever categories that we want to place God's laws into, that does not establish that any of the authors of the Bible ever used those categories. For example, I could categorize God's laws based on which part of the body is most commonly used to follow or break them, such as the hand being used to commit theft, but if I were try to insert my categories back into the Bible in order to create my own doctrines out of them as you have done with your categories even though the authors of the Bible never used them, then I would also run into error. The way that you have categorized God's laws implies that it is moral to disobey ceremonial and civil laws, but there are no examples in the Bible of it being moral to disobey any of God's laws. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws.

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the law and warned those who would relax the least part of the law or teach others to do the same, so you are calling him a liar and disregarding his warning. Likewise, Paul said in Romans 3:31 that our faith does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, yet you are trying to use his words to say the opposite. Instructions for how to act in accordance with the nature of the God of Israel can't be abolished without first abolishing the God of Israel, so that is Whom you are trying to say is no more.

In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves following God's law, so while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, God's eternal law did not become obsolete along with it. It was sinful to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9, long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, and after it has become obsolete, so there is nothing about any number of covenants being made or becoming obsolete which changes which actions are righteous or sinful or that causes any of God's eternal laws to become obsolete.

At not point in Paul's example from the law in Romans 7:1-4 was the women ever set free from being required to obey any of God's laws, so there is nothing in these verses that leads to the conclusion that in the same way all of God's laws are no more.

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's law, but contrasted that with the law of sin that held him captive, and in 7:6, Paul described us as being set free from a law that held us captive, so he was speaking about the law of sin, not speaking against the Law of God that he delighted in obeying.

God's laws are not handwriting of ordinances that were against us, but rather they were given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). Whenever someone was crucified, the people would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This served as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of the Torah being nailed to the cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of the laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160).

Verse 22 describes what Paul was speaking about as being after the commandments and doctrines of men, so why are you trying to use these verses to make Paul out to be speak against the commandments of God? In case you've forgotten, Paul was not an enemy of God.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so Ephesians 2:15 couldn't be referring to any of God's laws. God did not make any mistakes when the law was given, so He had no need to abolish His own eternal laws. Furthermore, God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

Do you think that that the author of Hebrews or the Jerusalem Council or anyone in the NT had the authority to countermand God? In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from God's law, so you should be quicker to think that someone who tried to do that has sinned and needs to repent than to follow someone who tries to do that. In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His law, so God simply did not give His people any room to follow anyone who does that. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded. I don't think the author of Hebrews or or the Jerusalem Council ever spoke against anyone obeying any of God's laws, but if you do, then you should disregard everything they said in favor of obeying God instead. When God has commanded something and you think someone spoke against obeying what God has commanded, then it shouldn't be difficult for you to figure out which one has the higher authority and which one you should follow.

Roughly 80% of the men in the US as circumcised and in a Acts 16:3, Paul had Timothy circumcised, so do you think that Galatians 5:2 is saying that Christ is of no value to us?

In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become justified, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the problem was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose for which God commanded it. So the Jerusalem Council upheld God's law by correctly ruling against that requirement and a ruling against requiring something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against requiring what God has commanded. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles to obey God's law, as if obedience to God were somehow a negative thing, but rather his problem was with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.

You continue to mistake things that were only said against obeying man as being against obeying God. In Colossians 2:16-23, Paul described the people who were judging them as teaching human traditions and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so they were being judged by pagans. This means that the Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God.

If the way to act in accordance with God's nature were to change when the New Covenant was made, then God's nature would not be eternal, but it is eternal, therefore Hebrews 7:12 is not speaking about changes to the content of God's eternal law, such as with it becoming righteous to commit idolatry or sinful to help the poor. Rather, the context is speaking about a change in the priesthood, which would also require a change in the law in regard to its administration.

The way to act in accordance with God's nature is straightforwardly based on God's nature, not on any particular covenant, and God's nature is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to express His nature are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any. For example, it was sinful to commit adultery before God made any covenants with man, and will always be sinful no matter how many covenants God makes, so it's not something that arbitrarily changes from contract to contract. Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, and he did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word and by example, but rather the New Covenant still involves following Gods law (Jeremiah 31:33). It is up for people to look at the law that Jesus taught by word and by example and to decide whether to become his follower.

My response was for others to read, and not exactly for you alone. I am not going to address everything you wrote here and I am not going to keep going back and forth with you because I do not believe in striving over the Old Law according to Titus 3:9. If you want to follow the Law of Moses (or Torah), and you are dead set on that idea, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise (even if I give you plenty of Scripture).

As for the classifications of the Law:

While all of God's laws have a moral aspect to them, the truth is that each of God's laws do have a main focus. One cannot say the Saturday Sabbath is exclusively a moral law alone because it is ceremony (or ritual) based. Loving your neighbor is a moral law because at it's core focus is primarily moral. Whereas keeping the Sabbath is primarily ritual based because one is observing a certain day of the week so as to rest and honor that day in that God rested (or stopped) from His work after the 6 day creation. It's a ceremony. Primarily it is ritual based. Most people are able to see this simple truth, but in your case, you don't want to see it because you want to go back to the Old Law (that is no more).

As for classifying things: God is not against doing such things by our observation of real life. The Canaanite woman was able to expound upon Jesus' parable with a continued parable of her own by referring how even the dogs can eat the crumbs from the master's table.

Saint Steven · Sep 13, 2020

It sounds like we need to define what the Bible means when it uses the term "the law". It can mean many things. Example below: (note capitalization of the Law and the Prophets = the books)

Romans 3:21
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.

Saint Steven · Sep 13, 2020

Scott Husted said:
The Bible starts out with the process involving the soul, which Jesus put the highest premium on and by inference the only thing one could give for it. The (first) commandment kept costs you your soul, which Jesus indemnified in the temptation in the wilderness following a pattern laid out from the beginning.

Fall on the rock or the rock falls on you ...

I'm afraid to ask what all that means. But thanks for your reply.

mlepfitjw · Sep 13, 2020

Hello everyone, thank you for all of your wonderful comments.

When you have some harping you over the bible. Saying "you have to do this and that because if you do not do it you are going to burn in hell, no matter what!"Exclaimed the man behind stand which he was preaching from.

The letter word of God in action.

Do you see where a sword swing to the neck can hurt your experience to have with God?

Have you ever heard these words preached, or spoken to someone. Someone who is very religious, and believes that they have to call you a sinner to your face?

Have you ever had a bad experience from a church?

Have you ever had anyone tell you?
That if you do not change you are doomed.

How loving and caring is that?

What does love in action look like?

The Lord Jesus Christ seen many people. Gods creation, the goal that God set before him was the need for love for all of them.

To look and seen the best in everyone, regardless of who they may be.

To hope for them to change their ways, and to have blessing upon all the people that have been met in life, and faith that their families are doing well, and always love your neighbour as yourself.

The only way the the Lord Jesus Christ remembered the spirit given by God was so that it was possible to love, pray, and hope for all the good of God.

With God all things are possible.

Thus we have a fulfilled life of peace.

Scott Husted · Sep 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
I'm afraid to ask what all that means. But thanks for your reply.

It is by far a condensed version ...

Soyeong · Sep 13, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
My response was for others to read, and not exactly for you alone. I am not going to address everything you wrote here and I am not going to keep going back and forth with you because I do not believe in striving over the Old Law according to Titus 3:9. If you want to follow the Law of Moses (or Torah), and you are dead set on that idea, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise (even if I give you plenty of Scripture).

God's law is His instructions for how to do good works and in Titus 3:1-8, Paul was exhorting them to do good works, so verse 9 should not be interpreted as undermining everything that he just said, so you are misapplying it. You keep mistaking things that were only said against obeying man as being against obeying God as if the Paul was an enemy of God.

As for the classifications of the Law:

While all of God's laws have a moral aspect to them, the truth is that each of God's laws do have a main focus. One cannot say the Saturday Sabbath is exclusively a moral law alone because it is ceremony (or ritual) based. Loving your neighbor is a moral law because at it's core focus is primarily moral. Whereas keeping the Sabbath is primarily ritual based because one is observing a certain day of the week so as to rest and honor that day in that God rested (or stopped) from His work after the 6 day creation. It's a ceremony. Primarily it is ritual based. Most people are able to see this simple truth, but in your case, you don't want to see it because you want to go back to the Old Law (that is no more).

As for classifying things: God is not against doing such things by our observation of real life. The Canaanite woman was able to expound upon Jesus' parable with a continued parable of her own by referring how even the dogs can eat the crumbs from the master's table.

If you agree that all of God's laws have moral aspect, then did you agree that it is immoral to break them?

I have no problem with people classifying God's laws and I agree that there is a ceremonial aspect to the command to keep the Sabbath holy, however, my problem is with people creating a classification of law and then interpreting the authors of the Bible as referring to their classification without establishing that the authors ever classified the law in that manner. Not all laws clearly fit under certain classifications and if the classification is not established by the Bible, then everyone is free to decide for themselves which laws they think belong in those classifications. For example, it is not uncommon for me to run across people who consider everything but the Ten Commandments to be ceremonial laws regardless of whether they have anything in particular to do with ceremony. In order to interpret an author of the Bible as referring to ceremonial laws, we would need to establish which laws they considered to be ceremonial and that information is simply not discussed anywhere in the Bible.

klutedavid · Sep 13, 2020

Soyeong said:
In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, so which do you believe:

1.) God was right in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 and the Jerusalem Council was wrong in Acts 15:10-11.

2.) God was wrong in Deuteronomy 30:11-14 and the Jerusalem Council was right in Acts 15:10-11.

3.) They are both right, but are not both speaking about God's law.

My vote is with #3. Furthermore, the Psalms express an extremely positive view of God's law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of God's law, then we will share it, as Paul did (Romans 7:22). For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who...delight in the law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night. We can't believe in the truth of these words while not allowing them to shape our view of God's law, so the view that the Psalms are Scripture is incompatible with the view that God's law is a burden that no one can bear.

You chose number three which seems to indicate that the apostles. Were not referring to the 'yoke' as being the law. So what do you think the apostles meant by that word 'yoke'.

Acts 15:10-11
Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

Soyeong · Sep 13, 2020

klutedavid said:
You chose number three which seems to indicate that the apostles. Were not referring to the 'yoke' as being the law. So what do you think the apostles meant by that word 'yoke'.

Acts 15:10-11
Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become justified, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the problem was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose for which God commanded it. So the Jerusalem Council upheld God's law by correctly ruling against that requirement and a ruling against requiring something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against requiring what God has commanded as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God. So the yoke was in regard to what was being added upon top of what God commanded and requiring that to be justified.

In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to obey His commandments, which are not burdensome, so this is another verse that is incompatible with interpreting Acts 15:10-11 as referring to God's commandments. Furthermore, it would mean that ruling against Gentiles obeying God's commandments would be ruling that Gentiles shouldn't love God.

martymonster · Sep 13, 2020

Agallagher said:
2 Corinthians 3:6 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

What does the word of God, kill?

Why does the letter killeth?

What is the letter killing?

Why would the letter kill the spirit if that is the probably effect?

Have you ever noticed this verse in the text, now in Hebrews 4:12 it talks about how the bible (letter) word of God, is sharper than the sharpest two-edge sword.

Why?

Why is it that the word of God can be used, as though a an medieval solider equipped with a sword which is drawn to the neck of his enemy ready to slice the neck at any given moment?

Mishandled understanding?

Lost in translation, and teachings from others who believe they know but do not know truly what the word of God is saying?

Why does the spirit give life?

How come the spirit is the only way to gain life?

How do you live by the spirit?

Who gives the spirit?

Why do we even need the spirit?

Does the spirit transform us?

Does anyone have any answers to these questions!?

A literal interpretation of scripture (no understanding) will keep you carnally minded. A spiritual interpretation of scripture, will give you life (open your eyes spiritually)

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The catch here is, unless the Lord opens your eyes to see the spiritual things in scripture, you will never be able to see them. It's a miracle if we see anything in scripture at all, because we are mere beasts. Beasts are not spiritual.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

The scriptures simply cannot be understood literally. A literal interpretation will bring forth briars and thorns (false doctrines) and the fruit of the vine is not picked from briars and thorns.
You want to know why there are so many different denominations with different doctrines? Literal interpretations.

1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

mlepfitjw · Sep 13, 2020

martymonster said:
A literal interpretation of scripture (no understanding) will keep you carnally minded. A spiritual interpretation of scripture, will give you life (open your eyes spiritually)

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The catch here is, unless the Lord opens your eyes to see the spiritual things in scripture, you will never be able to see them. It's a miracle if we see anything in scripture at all, because we are mere beasts. Beasts are not spiritual.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

The scriptures simply cannot be understood literally. A literal interpretation will bring forth briars and thorns (false doctrines) and the fruit of the vine is not picked from briars and thorns.
You want to know why there are so many different denominations with different doctrines? Literal interpretations.

1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Amen.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 13, 2020

Soyeong said:
God's law is His instructions for how to do good works and in Titus 3:1-8, Paul was exhorting them to do good works, so verse 9 should not be interpreted as undermining everything that he just said, so you are misapplying it. You keep mistaking things that were only said against obeying man as being against obeying God as if the Paul was an enemy of God.

If you agree that all of God's laws have moral aspect, then did you agree that it is immoral to break them?

I have no problem with people classifying God's laws and I agree that there is a ceremonial aspect to the command to keep the Sabbath holy, however, my problem is with people creating a classification of law and then interpreting the authors of the Bible as referring to their classification without establishing that the authors ever classified the law in that manner. Not all laws clearly fit under certain classifications and if the classification is not established by the Bible, then everyone is free to decide for themselves which laws they think belong in those classifications. For example, it is not uncommon for me to run across people who consider everything but the Ten Commandments to be ceremonial laws regardless of whether they have anything in particular to do with ceremony. In order to interpret an author of the Bible as referring to ceremonial laws, we would need to establish which laws they considered to be ceremonial and that information is simply not discussed anywhere in the Bible.

Many today do not care about obeying God. It's all about having a belief alone in Jesus and don't judge me type mentality. This is wrong. We are to obey God's commands. If not, there is no eternal life. However, where we disagree is on which commands we are to obey. I believe Scripture is clear that we are to follow the commandments that come from Jesus and His followers. We are New Covenant believers and not Old Covenant believers. The Old Covenant ended. But you are free to believe as you wish. I have already established Scripture that cannot be refuted on how the Law of Moses is no longer applicable.

As for classifications:

Again, as I said, I knew you would not see it because you don't want to see it. It's that simple. My case on this point already stands. There is no need to rehash this point again.

Daniel9v9 · Sep 14, 2020

Agallagher said:
2 Corinthians 3:6 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

What does the word of God, kill?

Why does the letter killeth?

What is the letter killing?

Why would the letter kill the spirit if that is the probably effect?

Have you ever noticed this verse in the text, now in Hebrews 4:12 it talks about how the bible (letter) word of God, is sharper than the sharpest two-edge sword.

Why?

Why is it that the word of God can be used, as though a an medieval solider equipped with a sword which is drawn to the neck of his enemy ready to slice the neck at any given moment?

Mishandled understanding?

Lost in translation, and teachings from others who believe they know but do not know truly what the word of God is saying?

Why does the spirit give life?

How come the spirit is the only way to gain life?

How do you live by the spirit?

Who gives the spirit?

Why do we even need the spirit?

Does the spirit transform us?

Does anyone have any answers to these questions!?

Yes, google Law and Gospel.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 14, 2020

Agallagher said:
Hello everyone, thank you for all of your wonderful comments.

When you have some harping you over the bible. Saying "you have to do this and that because if you do not do it you are going to burn in hell, no matter what!"Exclaimed the man behind stand which he was preaching from.

The letter word of God in action.

Do you see where a sword swing to the neck can hurt your experience to have with God?

Have you ever heard these words preached, or spoken to someone. Someone who is very religious, and believes that they have to call you a sinner to your face?

Have you ever had a bad experience from a church?

Have you ever had anyone tell you?
That if you do not change you are doomed.

How loving and caring is that?

What does love in action look like?

The Lord Jesus Christ seen many people. Gods creation, the goal that God set before him was the need for love for all of them.

To look and seen the best in everyone, regardless of who they may be.

To hope for them to change their ways, and to have blessing upon all the people that have been met in life, and faith that their families are doing well, and always love your neighbour as yourself.

The only way the the Lord Jesus Christ remembered the spirit given by God was so that it was possible to love, pray, and hope for all the good of God.

With God all things are possible.

Thus we have a fulfilled life of peace.

Well, I am sad to see that this is your conclusion. But alas, this is the majority wide gate view that most churches share. “Don't judge” me appears to be the theme in most of Christianity. I mean, would you not warn your friend and even get into a heated discussion with them so that they would not to drink and drive? Would you not shout to someone to stop and turn around because the bridge is out up ahead and there is a fog covering the bridge? Telling them what to do when they are going down the wrong path is not wrong or judgmental, but it is done out of love for their life. Would you not want to talk someone out of committing suicide? They all could say, “Don't judge me.”

Most likely, you think the wages of sin are all paid for by Jesus by having a mere belief alone on Him. You believe Christ paid it all. So you don't need to worry about sin and or warn others about sin and how it can destroy them. Jesus warned against certain sins and how it can lead to hell fire or condemnation (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:32) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Mark 8:36) (Luke 9:62). In fact, loving God and loving your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). For anyone who does not righteousness is not of God and neither he that loves his brother (1 John 3:10). The apostle Paul even listed how certain sins can cause one to not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21) (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) (Ephesians 5:3-5) (Colossians 3:5-6).

When Jesus referred to not judging in Matthew 7:1, he was referring to hypocritical judgment (See: Matthew 7:1-5). In John 7:24, Jesus tells us that we can judge righteously. Paul says, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” (Ephesians 5:11). What do you make of John the Baptist when he said the following?

7 “Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Luke 3:7-9).

If John the baptist was alive today, would you be saying to him, “Don't judge me”?

In fact, Paul judged the Corinthians and called them infants back in 1 Corinthians 3. He said to kick out the one amongst them who was committing fornication in 1 Corinthians 5. This is just 1 letter away from the letter of the verse you are focusing on for this thread (i.e. 2 Corinthians 3).

In 2 Corinthians 3: The letter that kills is clearly in reference to the Law of Moses (the 613 laws) and not the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. For the context of the letter that kills mentioned in 2 Corinthians 3:6 is 2 Corinthians 3:7 that says,

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:” (2 Corinthians 3:7).

Clearly verse 7 is referring to the Law of Moses. This is not referring to the new commands given to us by Jesus. In fact, Jesus gave us new commands.

Jesus said,

“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.” (John 13:34).

Problem is that most Christians today will say you can sin and still be saved on some level. They will say, “Jesus paid it all.” “Don't judge me.” That is what many of them say in popular Christianity. But Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life, and FEW be there that finds it. I would rather be more cautious with my own soul and take all of our Lord's words very seriously instead of to disregard them. Why? Because Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says all who will not hear that prophet (i.e. Jesus) they will be destroyed. John 12:48 essentially says that the person who does not receive His words (i.e. Jesus' words) those words will judge them on the last day. What words of Jesus can we not receive that will judge us? Matthew 5:28, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, etc.; In addition, Matthew 13:41-42 says,

“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42).

What is this passage saying? The Son of Man (JESUS) will send forth his angels and gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend (i.e. those things that make others to sin), and them that do iniquity (those who commit sin) and they shall be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

So Christians who were once saved, can be cast into the Lake of Fire because they later turn out to justify a sin and still be saved type gospel. Any believer who justifies sin is not going to make it. That is what Matthew 13:41-42 basically says. They can be in the Kingdom of our Lord and yet also not be saved because Jesus is going to send forth His angels and gather out all those in HIS Kingdom who offend and who do iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire.

Jesus warned about how certain sins can destroy our souls unless we confess and forsake them. Proverbs 28:13 basically says that the one who confesses and forsakes sin will obtain mercy.

I mean, if we are not to judge others, then what do you make of Jude 1:23 that says the following?

“And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.” (Jude 1:23).

I mean, everyone judges even silently. If you believe certain sins are really wrong and unacceptable in this life, you are judging. If you believe a person must accept Jesus, and everyone else will be condemned by not accepting Jesus, you are judging. I remember one unbelieving family member one time calling me up and out of the blue in the conversation they said how can I judge a certain type of people who commit a particular sin (i.e. that is considered normal by many in the world). I did not tell him anything about this sin previously. But they knew I believed the Bible. They knew I stood behind the morals of God's Word. They knew I silently judged those who commit such sins. It is not that I want to see anyone perish. 2 Peter 3:9 says that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. So people have to reform and change, and they cannot continue in sin. A belief alone in Jesus does not mean anything if a person does not change or repent. To tell others to repent is not wrong. The letter that kills is the Old Law and it is not just any of the New Testament Scriptures we do not like.

mlepfitjw · Sep 14, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Well, I am sad to see that this is your conclusion. But alas, this is the majority wide gate view that most churches share. “Don't judge” me appears to be the theme in most of Christianity. I mean, would you not warn your friend and even get into a heated discussion with them so that they would not to drink and drive? Would you not shout to someone to stop and turn around because the bridge is out up ahead and there is a fog covering the bridge? Telling them what to do when they are going down the wrong path is not wrong or judgmental, but it is done out of love for their life. Would you not want to talk someone out of committing suicide? They all could say, “Don't judge me.”

Most likely, you think the wages of sin are all paid for by Jesus by having a mere belief alone on Him. You believe Christ paid it all. So you don't need to worry about sin and or warn others about sin and how it can destroy them. Jesus warned against certain sins and how it can lead to hell fire or condemnation (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:32) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Mark 8:36) (Luke 9:62). In fact, loving God and loving your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28). For anyone who does not righteousness is not of God and neither he that loves his brother (1 John 3:10). The apostle Paul even listed how certain sins can cause one to not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21) (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) (Ephesians 5:3-5) (Colossians 3:5-6).

When Jesus referred to not judging in Matthew 7:1, he was referring to hypocritical judgment (See: Matthew 7:1-5). In John 7:24, Jesus tells us that we can judge righteously. Paul says, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” (Ephesians 5:11). What do you make of John the Baptist when he said the following?

7 “Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Luke 3:7-9).

If John the baptist was alive today, would you be saying to him, “Don't judge me”?

In fact, Paul judged the Corinthians and called them infants back in 1 Corinthians 3. He said to kick out the one amongst them who was committing fornication in 1 Corinthians 5. This is just 1 letter away from the letter of the verse you are focusing on for this thread (i.e. 2 Corinthians 3).

In 2 Corinthians 3: The letter that kills is clearly in reference to the Law of Moses (the 613 laws) and not the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. For the context of the letter that kills mentioned in 2 Corinthians 3:6 is 2 Corinthians 3:7 that says,

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:” (2 Corinthians 3:7).

Clearly verse 7 is referring to the Law of Moses. This is not referring to the new commands given to us by Jesus. In fact, Jesus gave us new commands.

Jesus said,

“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.” (John 13:34).

Problem is that most Christians today will say you can sin and still be saved on some level. They will say, “Jesus paid it all.” “Don't judge me.” That is what many of them say in popular Christianity. But Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life, and FEW be there that finds it. I would rather be more cautious with my own soul and take all of our Lord's words very seriously instead of to disregard them. Why? Because Acts of the Apostles 3:23 says all who will not hear that prophet (i.e. Jesus) they will be destroyed. John 12:48 essentially says that the person who does not receive His words (i.e. Jesus' words) those words will judge them on the last day. What words of Jesus can we not receive that will judge us? Matthew 5:28, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, etc.; In addition, Matthew 13:41-42 says,

“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42).

What is this passage saying? The Son of Man (JESUS) will send forth his angels and gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend (i.e. those things that make others to sin), and them that do iniquity (those who commit sin) and they shall be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

So Christians who were once saved, can be cast into the Lake of Fire because they later turn out to justify a sin and still be saved type gospel. Any believer who justifies sin is not going to make it. That is what Matthew 13:41-42. They can be in the Kingdom of our Lord and not be saved because Jesus is going to send forth His angels and gather out all those in HIS Kingdom who offend and who do iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire.

Jesus warned about how certain sins can destroy our souls unless we confess and forsake them. Proverbs 28:13 basically says that the one who confesses and forsakes sin will obtain mercy.

I mean, if we are not to judge others, then what do you make of Jude 1:23 that says the following?

“And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.” (Jude 1:23).

I mean, everyone judges even silently. If you believe certain sins are really wrong and unacceptable in this life, you are judging. If you believe a person must accept Jesus, and everyone else will be condemned by not accepting Jesus, you are judging. I remember one unbelieving family member one time calling me up and out of the blue in the conversation they said how can I judge a certain type of people who commit a particular sin (i.e. that is considered normal by many in the world). I did not tell him anything about this sin previously. But they knew I believed the Bible. They knew I stood behind the morals of God's Word. They knew I silently judged those who commit such sins. It is not that I want to see anyone perish. 2 Peter 3:9 says that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. So people have to reform and change, and they cannot continue in sin. A belief alone in Jesus does not mean anything if a person does not change or repent. To tell others to repent is not wrong. The letter that kills is the Old Law and it is not just any of the New Testament Scriptures we do not like.

Okay.

Null/Voided Out

Love to pray! :)

Love to pray! :)

Love to pray! :)

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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You can call me Steve

May you be blessed!

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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