What if you die before coming to Jesus?

SoManyQuestions! · Sep 13, 2020

What if you never heard about Jesus? What if you didn't live in a place with Christians and never had a chance to hear the word? Would you go to hell anyway? What if you live in a nation where another religion is the primary one? Like what if your country is Muslim and you must be Muslim or be murdered? What if you did live in a place with Christians, but your family followed a different faith and would never allowed you to even look into Christianity? What if even reading the bible would make them disown you? Then what?

Who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?

Rachel20 · Sep 13, 2020

I believe we're only held accountable for what we're given. You see this in the parable of the talents, also the below verses. So imo the truly blind are in no danger, but rather those who see and reject.

Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. John 9:41

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. Luke 12:48

SoManyQuestions! · Sep 13, 2020

Tha... That was actually a good answer. Thank you.

Aussie Pete · Sep 13, 2020

Good question and one that is often asked. It does help if you ask the right person. You'll be sure to get the right answer. I asked God. Before I go further, the Bible is clear that God is revealed through His creation. God states that the evidence He provides is sufficient. I've learned not to argue with God. He knows EVERYTHING.

When I asked the same question, God told me that He will save anyone who genuinely seeks Him. It says in the Bible that anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.

There are Christians in the most surprising places. North Korea, for example. The regime murders anyone who does not conform to the state ideology or who is any way a threat to the regime. Christians are perceived as a threat. It is extremely hard for Christians but the church survives there.

Jesus warned His followers that they would be despised and persecuted. The unbelieving ignore us, belittle us and sometimes hate us. The Western world was a relatively safe haven for Christians and still is for the most part. But there is change in the air. Christianity no longer underpins European society apart from a few conservative countries. There is a price to pay for being a Christian. For some it is a bit of ridicule or contempt. For others, it is living in the shadow of death. Obviously those who become Christians in the worst environments believe it's worth it. There are Christians in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran and other majority Muslim countries. Easy? No. Worth it? Definitely.

FreeinChrist · Sep 13, 2020

ADVISOR HAT

This thread was moved to Exploring Christianity, which fits the topic better.

BNR32FAN · Sep 13, 2020

When Adam & Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge they received the knowledge of both good and evil which is also passed on to their ancestors. So everyone apart from some with mental disabilities have a natural sense of right & wrong. One thing I’m certain of is God does not only deal in black & white He can see through all the grey areas as well. As for not knowing Jesus there were countless people in the Old Testament who were counted as being righteous who never knew who Jesus was. Rahab was counted as being righteous without even having believed in the God of Israel simply for her compassion for human life and on top of that she was even counted righteous by God for telling a lie to the Canaanite guards who were searching for the Israelite spies. I wonder, can Christ reside in someone who doesn’t even realize it?

Lukaris · Sep 13, 2020

I think what St. Paul preaches in Romans 2 covers this where individuals are specifically concerned. Whereas Romans 1 & Romans 3 concern sinning humanity as a whole, individuals vary. I believe what the Lord preaches in John 5:22-30, Matthew 25:31-46 etc. is where St. Paul explains from.

JIMINZ · Sep 13, 2020

But you have heard, you live where there are Christians, you have no excuse.

Non Believers in Christ, go to hell

ViaCrucis · Sep 14, 2020

Simply put, the historic Christian position is that we don't know, and it's not our place to say who is and isn't saved. The Church's place and purpose in the world is to hear, believe, and confess the Gospel, to be the people of Jesus Christ. And to be this people in the world in regard to our neighbors.

One will get different opinions among different Christians, but generally one can speak broadly of Christians who subscribe to an exclusivist position (only those who are Christians in this life can be saved) and of Christians who subscribe to an inclusivist position (non-Christians may, according to God's mercy, be also saved).

This is a major over-simplification of course, it doesn't cover those Christians who subscribe to a more "universalist" position. Namely that all may, or even absolutely will be saved in the end. Dogmatic universalism (everyone will be saved) is generally considered less than orthodox, but saying it is possible that, in the end, all will be saved has always been the hopeful prayer of the Church, but ultimately we can't say one way or another.

There are a lot of factors that influence these different positions, for example one's theological and/or denominational tradition. Thus one's theology of salvation plays a major role in how one thinks and talks about this subject.

But, as I've said already, generally and historically the Christian religion has no definitive answer to this question. Some Christians have strong, even dogmatic opinions; and others are agnostic on the subject, simply that we don't know, and we can trust in God on this matter.

For what it's worth, I'm the latter--I simply trust in God's kindness and mercy which He has shown through Jesus Christ. And I am hopeful, that what lies ahead in that good future world is far better than anything I or anyone else could possible ever speculate.

I like what St. Isaac the Syrian has to say, he says,

"Let us not be in doubt, O fellow humanity, concerning the hope of our salvation, seeing that the One who bore sufferings for our sakes is very concerned about our salvation; God's mercy is far more extensive than we can conceive, God's grace is greater than what we ask for."

-CryptoLutheran

FutureAndAHope · Sep 15, 2020

This is a real story, there was a Muslim man in a majority Muslim nation, for weeks he had dreams, and he wrote them down. He was met at a later date by Christain missionaries, and the dream that he wrote down was the Gospel of John out of the bible.

Jesus can reach the unreachable, but using the same gospel we have.

Sketcher · Sep 15, 2020

The New Testament does not detail any amnesty for being a sinner outside of the saving grace of God, which comes only through faith in Christ. And all people born with a sinful nature are sinners. Heaven is not something that anyone can deserve or insist upon. That being said, I'm not going to say that it's impossible for God to provide them that chance to believe after death, but since the New Testament does not give details on whether or not it indeed happens, I can't say for sure that it does happen. What I can say for sure is that Christians are mandated to make disciples, doing what we can to turn people from spiritual death to spiritual life.

Clizby WampusCat · Sep 16, 2020

The way logic and skepticism works in that the person evaluating the evidence gets to decide if the evidence is sufficient enough. God does not get to do that unless He convinces me He exists. I am not convinced by the evidence that a god exists, God can say otherwise but He would be wrong. You are basically saying here that I do not know my own mind. What if I told you that there is sufficient evidence that Big Foot exists and that you are just denying the evidence?

Yet three are millions of people like me who genuinely did seek God and were never convinced unless we are saved just for seeking.

There are more options here. Some respect and listen to Christians views. My wife is a christian and I never ignore, belittle or hate her for it.

Same with non believers. Just read here how some posters treat the atheist. At one time in this countries recent history the supreme court had to step in to overturn laws in many states denying the right of a non believer to hold public office.

Notice these countries have a religious and governmental policies that persecute Christians. There are countries in the world today that have death penalties for atheists such as Iran, Maldives or Mauritania. It seem that any group of people can be in danger somewhere on this earth. Dt. 17 says to kill people that worship certain other gods, at least at that time in history.

LightBearer · Sep 18, 2020

Not a problem really.

Here the Apostle Paul holds out hope for all the dead when he says:

Acts 24:14 "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Jesus also said:

John 5:28,29 "Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Once resurrected, even the unrighteous will have been acquitted of their previous sins, for the bible says:

Rom 6:23 "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord."

Therefore, once a person dies, the price for there sins is paid . And so this applies:

Rom 6:7 "For he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin. Because death is the price paid.

Sin brings death, once you die the price is paid. On being resurrected (An undeserved kindness from Jehovah through Jesus Christ) they will in effect have a fresh start.

Therefore, all the resurrected dead will all have the opportunity to learn about God and his son. Those who were previously amongst the unrighteous, and who submit to their rulership and come to be amongst the righteous, will go on living forever on the earth in perfect paradise conditions. Those who do not, will not continue to live.

Rev 21:3,4 “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Psalm 37:10,11;29 "Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. The righteous will possess the earth,And they will live forever on it."

Stay safe and well.

chilehed · Sep 19, 2020

An excerpt from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (emphases mine):

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.

845 To children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. the Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. the Church is "the world reconciled." She is that full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."

Amittai · Oct 7, 2020

The way God applies principle, looks (superficially) like a sliding scale.

It helps when we can view everything (in our mind's eye) as intersecting spectrums.

No doubt the thief on the cross (like the workers that turned up late in the day) prayed for us in his last moments. Certainly, his testimony has been fruitful in our lives.

Drifter91 · Oct 9, 2020

you can't ignore the fact that the universe serves those with strongest convictions and principles without using your own manipulation underlyingly...

What if you die before coming to Jesus?

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