Many are puzzled by the difference between Greek thought and Hebrew thought.

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,918
8,033
✟572,541.44
Faith
Messianic
Greek thought is a belief in God but not necessary an active required response towards God, thus it is cried out "just believe" and "you shall be saved" which requires a theology rather than a life fully embodied in God's Will.

Hebrew thought is more than believing in God, but actually living according to His Way, His Truth, His Life, a total immersion into His commands as a way of life, trusting God to lead the way. It is the "only" thing God requires of man.

Deuteronomy 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, 13 To keep the commandments of the Lord, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good? 14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

The law is a condition and the moral freedom contained within is the underlying premise that God has instilled in it for the longevity of life in the pursuit of true happiness. It is part of what Holiness is all about. This feeling of responsibility and obligation towards God through obedience gives purpose and satisfaction in doing well. Of all the dealings mentioned in scripture that God has with man, the most frequently mentioned is justice. Not justice as man perceives it but as only a Holy God can deliver and it shines through for all eternity as righteous.

Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the Lord God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
 

GedaliahMaegil

Messianic Ger Toshav - not christian
Jun 19, 2020
369
158
California
Visit site
✟71,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Greek thought is a belief in God but not necessary an active required response towards God, thus it is cried out "just believe" and "you shall be saved" which requires a theology rather than a life fully embodied in God's Will.

Hebrew thought is more than believing in God, but actually living according to His Way, His Truth, His Life, a total immersion into His commands as a way of life, trusting God to lead the way. It is the "only" thing God requires of man.

Deuteronomy 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, 13 To keep the commandments of the Lord, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good? 14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

The law is a condition and the moral freedom contained within is the underlying premise that God has instilled in it for the longevity of life in the pursuit of true happiness. It is part of what Holiness is all about. This feeling of responsibility and obligation towards God through obedience gives purpose and satisfaction in doing well. Of all the dealings mentioned in scripture that God has with man, the most frequently mentioned is justice. Not justice as man perceives it but as only a Holy God can deliver and it shines through for all eternity as righteous.

Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the Lord God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.

I would rather be obedient to the good Master, HaShem, and made free, than to be a slave of sin and a prisoner.

Faith cannot be seen, except in obedience. That's the way it's always been. A mental assentation just won't cut it.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: visionary
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,918
8,033
✟572,541.44
Faith
Messianic
I would rather be obedient to the good Master, HaShem, and made free, than to be a slave of sin and a prisoner.

Faith cannot be seen, except in obedience. That's the way it's always been. A mental assentation just won't cut it.
And there in lays the quondam for many.. If your faith tells you that the law is done away with then the vagueness of obedience and following God takes on the interpretation of their spiritual leader. It is better to have God dictate that The WAY OF LIFE and know it is righteous in His eyes, than to declare God's WAY is done away with and true to live a life that is nice without obedience.
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,918
8,033
✟572,541.44
Faith
Messianic
In the old testament, there are many references of God and Justice as one. For the Lord your God is God Supreme, Who shows no favor, and takes no bribe, but upholds the cause of the fatherless and widows and befriends the stranger, providing him with food and clothing. Deut 10:17-18. There are verses that equate breaking the law with turning away from God. To declare God's law is done away with by the actions of His Son is blaspheme. Yeshua would not be our High Priest if that was true.
 
Upvote 0

GedaliahMaegil

Messianic Ger Toshav - not christian
Jun 19, 2020
369
158
California
Visit site
✟71,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
To declare God's law is done away with by the actions of His Son is blaspheme. Yeshua would not be our High Priest if that was true

Indeed. People don't realise exactly how much they dishonour the name of Yeshua and His Father, when they claim that He abolished the very thing He laid out in exacting detail, despite all the things that He Himself testifies to regarding Torah.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: visionary
Upvote 0

pinacled

walking with the Shekinah
Apr 29, 2015
3,311
1,007
United states
✟171,798.77
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I would rather be obedient to the good Master, HaShem, and made free, than to be a slave of sin and a prisoner.

Faith cannot be seen, except in obedience. That's the way it's always been. A mental assentation just won't cut it.
I come from a school of thought where faith is heard in a new song.
Deuteronomy 31:19
Revelation 14:3

Ears, eyes, hands, feet.

Blessings Always
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

GedaliahMaegil

Messianic Ger Toshav - not christian
Jun 19, 2020
369
158
California
Visit site
✟71,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I come from a school of thought where faith is heard in a new song.
Deuteronomy 31:19
Revelation 14:3

Ears, eyes, hands, feet.

Blessings Always

Sorry. Not a gnostic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tampasteve
Upvote 0

imisswarmth

Active Member
Sep 10, 2020
45
21
55
City
✟7,964.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Greek thought is a belief in God but not necessary an active required response towards God, thus it is cried out "just believe" and "you shall be saved" which requires a theology rather than a life fully embodied in God's Will.

Hebrew thought is more than believing in God, but actually living according to His Way, His Truth, His Life, a total immersion into His commands as a way of life, trusting God to lead the way. It is the "only" thing God requires of man.

Deuteronomy 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, 13 To keep the commandments of the Lord, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good? 14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

The law is a condition and the moral freedom contained within is the underlying premise that God has instilled in it for the longevity of life in the pursuit of true happiness. It is part of what Holiness is all about. This feeling of responsibility and obligation towards God through obedience gives purpose and satisfaction in doing well. Of all the dealings mentioned in scripture that God has with man, the most frequently mentioned is justice. Not justice as man perceives it but as only a Holy God can deliver and it shines through for all eternity as righteous.

Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the Lord God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.

I think one thing that we can agree on is that Gods ways are far above all ways. I think it is best for me to trust in God and let God decide.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Joyous Song

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
1,412
653
Buffalo
✟46,575.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Nor am i a gnostic.

The new song is Holy writ expressed.


And that New Song, unlike the song of these last two thousand years of the teachers of "Strong lips and foreign tongues" Include not only a Gentile leader of the uncircumcised such as you seem to be, Zere'babel, but also a circumcision leader, Y'hoshua.
 
Upvote 0

pinacled

walking with the Shekinah
Apr 29, 2015
3,311
1,007
United states
✟171,798.77
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
And that New Song, unlike the song of these last two thousand years of the teachers of "Strong lips and foreign tongues" Include not only a Gentile leader of the uncircumcised such as you seem to be, Zere'babel, but also a circumcision leader, Y'hoshua.
שְׁמַע-נָא יְהוֹשֻׁעַ הַכֹּהֵן הַגָּדוֹל, אַתָּה וְרֵעֶיךָ הַיֹּשְׁבִים לְפָנֶיךָ--כִּי-אַנְשֵׁי מוֹפֵת, הֵמָּה: כִּי-הִנְנִי מֵבִיא אֶת-עַבְדִּי, צֶמַח.
8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou and thy fellows that sit before thee; for they are men that are a sign; for, behold, I will bring forth My servant the Shoot.
ט כִּי הִנֵּה הָאֶבֶן, אֲשֶׁר נָתַתִּי לִפְנֵי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ--עַל-אֶבֶן אַחַת, שִׁבְעָה עֵינָיִם; הִנְנִי מְפַתֵּחַ פִּתֻּחָהּ, נְאֻם יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, וּמַשְׁתִּי אֶת-עֲוֺן הָאָרֶץ-הַהִיא, בְּיוֹם אֶחָד.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone are seven facets; behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts: And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
י בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא, נְאֻם יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, תִּקְרְאוּ, אִישׁ לְרֵעֵהוּ--אֶל-תַּחַת גֶּפֶן, וְאֶל-תַּחַת תְּאֵנָה.
10 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig-tree.


I come from a school of thought where neighbors are treated with respect and dignity.
Calling them goyim(gentile pagans)-(uncircumcised) conflicts with The Torah of Spirit

Blessings Always
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

pinacled

walking with the Shekinah
Apr 29, 2015
3,311
1,007
United states
✟171,798.77
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
And that New Song, unlike the song of these last two thousand years of the teachers of

"Strong lips and foreign tongues"


Include not only a Gentile leader of the uncircumcised such as you seem to be, Zere'babel, but also a circumcision leader, Y'hoshua.
In response to the bolded that is cited from the prophet yeshayahu(isaiah).

Shavuot Shalom occurred over 2 thousand yrs ago.
And those that recieved the Blessings to go forth and return were given The Spirit to do so.
2 Timothy 1:7
Proverbs 15

Blessed Be The Holy One
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

pinacled

walking with the Shekinah
Apr 29, 2015
3,311
1,007
United states
✟171,798.77
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Greek thought is a belief in God but not necessary an active required response towards God, thus it is cried out "just believe" and "you shall be saved" which requires a theology rather than a life fully embodied in God's Will.

Hebrew thought is more than believing in God, but actually living according to His Way, His Truth, His Life, a total immersion into His commands as a way of life, trusting God to lead the way. It is the "only" thing God requires of man.

Deuteronomy 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, 13 To keep the commandments of the Lord, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good? 14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

The law is a condition and the moral freedom contained within is the underlying premise that God has instilled in it for the longevity of life in the pursuit of true happiness. It is part of what Holiness is all about. This feeling of responsibility and obligation towards God through obedience gives purpose and satisfaction in doing well. Of all the dealings mentioned in scripture that God has with man, the most frequently mentioned is justice. Not justice as man perceives it but as only a Holy God can deliver and it shines through for all eternity as righteous.

Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the Lord God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
Greco/Roman thought as I've observed over the years is a philosophical justification for oppression used with a hierarchical caste system of government reflected by the worship of entities(gods) that are spiritually void of Holyness.

With a further influence on modern governing bodies of secular nations I've also observed how such has caused suffering without cause.
1 Timothy 6:10

A spirit like frogs in my opinion.

Blessings Always
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

pinacled

walking with the Shekinah
Apr 29, 2015
3,311
1,007
United states
✟171,798.77
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Greek thought is a belief in God but not necessary an active required response towards God, thus it is cried out "just believe" and "you shall be saved" which requires a theology rather than a life fully embodied in God's Will.

Hebrew thought is more than believing in God, but actually living according to His Way, His Truth, His Life, a total immersion into His commands as a way of life, trusting God to lead the way. It is the "only" thing God requires of man.

Deuteronomy 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, 13 To keep the commandments of the Lord, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good? 14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

The law is a condition and the moral freedom contained within is the underlying premise that God has instilled in it for the longevity of life in the pursuit of true happiness. It is part of what Holiness is all about. This feeling of responsibility and obligation towards God through obedience gives purpose and satisfaction in doing well. Of all the dealings mentioned in scripture that God has with man, the most frequently mentioned is justice. Not justice as man perceives it but as only a Holy God can deliver and it shines through for all eternity as righteous.

Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the Lord God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
Matthew 25:20

The greco/roman governance is likened to egypt when building an authority.
Mountains like pyramids to rule and be supported by a suppressed an abase numerousity of poor to carry the weight that the wealthy lash their whips on.

"Nothing new under the sun..."
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: visionary
Upvote 0

pinacled

walking with the Shekinah
Apr 29, 2015
3,311
1,007
United states
✟171,798.77
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I would rather be obedient to the good Master, HaShem, and made free, than to be a slave of sin and a prisoner.

Faith cannot be seen, except in obedience. That's the way it's always been. A mental assentation just won't cut it.
Except where charity is concerned while the donors gift of obedience is concealed out of respect for their loved ones.
Faith can be seen by the many that receive freely a gift.

Blessings Always
 
Upvote 0

AbbaLove

Circumcism Of The Heart
May 16, 2015
2,488
760
✟119,587.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
In Relationship
It’s alarming how influential Greek thought is when it comes to how we are conditioned to approach the Scriptures.
You could say the same thing about a secular Jew assuming both are secular. Likewise, is there any difference between a Jew and Greek that love the LORD with all their heart, soul, spirit and strength (Romans 10:12, Galatians 3:28-29).

Romans 8:1-5 (CJB)
Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua.
2 Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the “Torah” of sin and death.
3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature,
4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants.
5 For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.​
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,918
8,033
✟572,541.44
Faith
Messianic
You could say the same thing about a secular Jew assuming both are secular. Likewise, is there any difference between a Jew and Greek that love the LORD with all their heart, soul, spirit and strength (Romans 10:12, Galatians 3:28-29).

Romans 8:1-5 (CJB)
Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua.
2 Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the “Torah” of sin and death.
3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature,
4 so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants.
5 For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.​
The difference is in their decision making process because of what they believe. Let's say that they do not believe in Yeshua's soon return and so their political decisions, their home life decisions, and their business decisions are based upon that belief. Yeshua warned against this line of thinking. Every day every decisions are made based on what a person believes. They can love God with all their heart and soul yet make decisions not based on Torah or the prophecies. This is where action makes the difference.

Another example can be the Jews of 70AD, some believed that God would defend the temple, while others believed Yeshua that is was time to flee when they saw the surrounding armies. Your faith requires action.
 
Upvote 0